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Lilith in the 12th house

topic posted Wed, August 22, 2007 - 1:45 AM by  MaryEllen
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from Interpreting Lilith by D.G.Jay (1981)
(technically this book is about Dark Moon Lilith, but I think that it can be applied to all the Liliths, especially for those just starting to de-tangle Lilith's many confusing forms)


Lilith in this natural house of Neptune, exaggerates ideals, receptivity & whatever is the level of sensitivity in this one's makeup. In the 12th house Lilith sensitizes the native to deep wells of etheric energy, accounting for n extraordinary imagination when positive & illusion or self-delusion when it is negative. When positive, there are the products of a beautifully creative imagination. This indicates sensitivity for work with color, picturing or shading, denoting artistic talent if the rest of the chart is supportive. There is ability for work with intangibles ~ such as energy fields, either as a scientist or mystic depending on the cut of the chart; or with the delicate nuances of sound or rhythm ~ as in the case of a musician or dancer. It may be metaphysics or the paranormal ~ as in the case of psychics or parapsychologists. They can act on stage or in films because they can convincingly identify with a fictional role, due to the unusual ability to relate easily to the world of imagination

They have a deep mystical awareness that they may choose not to admit, or literally deny in themselves, because of the exaggeration of it in their minds as the stronger reality they secretly fear they cannot handle; might separate them from others; or invite rejection.

When selfishly motivated (justified or not), or where the emotions are undisciplined or misdirected, Lilith's higher level of inspirational guidance is denied positive outlet because it is entirely foreign to the negative desire nature & therefore debilitating. It is hostile to the desires of the flesh, where this one is apt to deify his own desires & blind himself to whatever may deny them. The visionary quality become distorted. The Lilith energy buildup, releasing through no detachment or personal objectivity to make it independent of the emotional, turns in on itself to literally blind the native to certain facts. This causes serious self-defeating errors in his (or her) judgment. In the 12th Lilith magnifies illusions to unhealthy levels, when the quality of detachment is lacking.

There is a kind of naivete about one who has Lilith in the 12th that literally invites deception. They believe what they idealize to be true, literally, & no amount of alerting them to certain facts seems to help. They leave themselves open to deception through ignoring (or having ignored), signals along the way, because of an almost childlike optimism. This is suspected by those close to them, but it is amazing to those who only see their deliberate outer composure.

... It makes the illusion as concrete a reality to them as a stone fence might be to another. To say that this one can be naive on the emotional level is a masterpiece of understatement. They seem to have an incredible mental block where their personal realities are concerned. On this level their otherwise good judgment is as if paralyzed when the threat of upset is on the wind. Love & affection mean too much to them, so what they cannot face they simply consider non-existent & that's that. You might say these people inspired the phrase "burying one's head in the sand", or "what you don't know can't hurt you". When finally awakened to the hard realities, in other words, disillusioned, this one feels not only betrayed but as if brutally awakened. he becomes as disoriented as you might be if you were sleeping & someone suddenly flashed on all the lights while shouting at you.

He needs to view or deal with his life through the more pragmatic eyes of the intellect (the logical) for sufficient detachment from the overactive imagination, to balance it. Until he really wants to do this & though he may be outstanding in in other ways, he or she is capable of immersing the self comfortably, if naively, in the 'dream' of what a certain person or situation should represent, rather than to the facts. Though they may find it hard to admit & apparently even to themselves, they are deeply apprehensive of their ability to cope with mundane realities. They prefer to lose themselves to their great preoccupation with love & ideals.

So long as a personal situation serves their purpose they can completely close their eyes to certain things they do not wish to see & let it go at that. Can you see how they can be taken advantage of for a time? It is an amazing thing to observe, even though they can be discriminating otherwise in the more impersonal areas of their life. There seems to be no logic as to why they will tolerate certain personal situations.

When positive we have the sensitivity or visionary person who can immerse himself in areas that productively or impersonally channel the sensitivity for the greater release of their fertile imagination. In this area we have the actors, artists, dancers, writers, inventors, technologists, or a work of some kind that satisfies the creative imagination. At the very least, there is something of the dreamer in all of them.

Where Lilith is located the victory is in the letting go & in this case, of self-serving dreams. Lilithian energy is only debilitating when denied.

In severe cases where this one cannot or will not detach, the refusal to be uprooted from his or her false dream, no matter what is told, until it is smashed, may reverse the too trusting attitude into an unhealthy bitterness; escape into secret indulgences; or distort the personality for having had their rose-colored glasses removed. It leaves them feeling stripped naked from their comfortable illusions & exposed into a chilling world. In this case the negative attitude may create illness, a wasted life or simply another illusion for them to comfortably wrap themselves in. This only delays the inevitable awakening for another disillusionment. It is not Lilith that is static, as much as it is the desire to "hide in the dream" that is their own self-undoing. One day when they are forced to face the reality of the situation (however it occurs), they will have to admit that they did use it to avoid certain decisions as much as it or the person used them. The problem seems sudden, but the handwriting was on the wall to all it seems but themselves.

One with Lilith in the 12th deeply need the inspiration of an artistically imaginative environment.... They could lose themselves in it meditatively for a time from the 'real' world, as if to refresh the soul. They need this as much as another might need rest & relaxation for the body. It essentially satisfies their need & their strong affinity for the delicate or the idyllic, which is actually the greater reality to them. They need refreshment for the soul from things aesthetic as urgently as others need refreshment from food & drink. It helps them to get or maintain their emotional perspective & detachment from themselves, for good personal balance. Given these nourishments we have some of the most creatively sensitive artists & intelligent scientists (material or occult), because of the tremendous insight & feeling Lilith makes these people heir to in the 12th house.

Where vocations are concerned, the actor or actresses among them make excellent use of the exaggerated imaginative factor of Lilith in the 12th. It is a particularly wealthy source to draw from in their work of visualizing a reality other than their own. They can forget themselves completely to relate to the unreality of a fictional character. Rather than a weakness, it becomes their strength as the capacity to believe for a time that they are in fact the character they are portraying, enabling them to lose themselves in it easily.

In theatre, within detachment to their work, Lilith heightens charisma, memory & the reflective quality they have to temporarily make real something unreal. here they can work with illusion as a tool of their trade, keeping the reality & the unreality clearly defined & in good balance.

When capable of spiritual objectivity, people with Lilith in the 12th can be instrumental in inspiring others through their emphasis on selfless ideals and mystical beliefs. If the chart supports it, they can be excellent in healing work.

people with Lilith in the 12th:

Joseph Cotton, '40s film star
Greta Garbo, illusive film star
Meher Baba, mystic
Charles H. Mayo, founder of the Mayo Clinic
Werner Von Braun, aeronautical engineer


I'd love to hear from those with a 12th house Lilith for feedback!

love all-ways,
mem
posted by:
MaryEllen
SF Bay Area
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  • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

    Wed, August 22, 2007 - 9:29 PM
    ps ~

    LILITH IN THE 12th HOUSE seems to create an urge for illusions, fantasies and intoxication conditions. You are probably susceptibly to drugs and easily impressable. On the other hand, this position gives a very strong creative and inspirative capability. You vary between social contacts and retreats to isolation, are engaged excessively in the social area and help sympatheticly wherever it is necessary, whereby you also might neglect yourself. Perhaps a tendency exists, to walk through the life without a self, because you negate, don't recognize or want to admit your own needs.

    from nmazca.com/coeli/lilith.htm
    • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

      Sun, August 26, 2007 - 12:20 AM
      Ah ha..Yes Yes.. Now which one do I have right behind Nept right behind Asc in Scorpio...
      ½ naïve ½ totally aware…But often choose to listen to the naiveté rather than the see the whole thing beginning to end in an instant…
      This was a more nice look at it than a few reads I’ve found about it… and sounds similar to a few Scorpio Nept 12 conj Asc..
      Escapist artist….
    • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

      Thu, July 30, 2009 - 3:50 PM
      It's funny, everytime I realise things will not work with her, I find wonderfull places like this, and life just gets better.

      Let me explain. Emo alert though, for this is Lilith we're talking about.

      For 4 years I have had a crush on this girl. She stayed at our house for a while, we had fun, and everytime I felt I was ready for us, I froze up, I never made a move when I should have. So nothing interesting besides conversation happended.
      This game of my trying to forget, falling back in love, having a good time, and being rudely awakened lasted for the entire period. Interrupted by depressions, self-investigation, that sort of thing. Guess I could descern 8 cycles, each of about half a year.
      Good thing in the first cycle I wrote that damned letter, letting all my friends, incuding her, know I was a pretty good writer and terribly insecure. Oh, and that I loved her. Didn't realy ammount to anything, except a group of loyals friends (thank God for them), and the compliment that I was sweet, but more like a big brother.
      Meanwhile, I had the impression she'd wait for me to come to grips again, and once I was normal again, she'd be waiting. Hell no, everytime we talked for the first time in half a year she's single, but when I get my courage back together to see her again, there's another guy waiting. Like today...

      But I do think my recovery periods are getting shorter, so I guess I'll be alright in a few years. Wait, that's what I said to myself in the beginning, when I thought love hormones only last for about 2 years. Boy, was I in for a dissapointment :D

      Fortunately she's also interested in astrology, so I showed her her chart. I can just about dream it by now.
      My Lillith's in the 12th house Trine my Sun in 8th. (Maybe I should mention Sun's got a Yod from Pluto and a Neptune/Saturn combination)

      She has a Conjunction of Moon and Mars (2nd House), both Trine her Sun, Mercury, and Venus(6th). (Bah, boring houses...)

      You can guess where this is going... My Lillith is Conjunct her Sun ed., and my Sun conjunct her Moon/Mars.

      So yeah, Lilith creates a mystified image. A terribly naive idea of romantic love too. And could be a large source of vague guilt... Yeah, generally your message hit home alright. Oh, and acting always felt a little too easy indeed... One always pretends to be a character don't we? Hehe, maybe I should take it up...

      I'm not even going to try pretend I know how to deal with it. Pragmatic thought has at least brought out the 8th house side of my Sun, going as far as taking up astrology as an otherwise pretty cerebral (and nerdy) guy.
      Drugs are always tempting, meditation helps a lot more. So much I've got, maybe an ounce of creativity thrown in would help... Writing's fun, and helps... Well, letting go of course. Letting go a finger at a time...



      Now the short version of my post: Hey, I never could find a good excuse in my chart to be awkard around women, and now I have one! Thanks!
  • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

    Tue, May 26, 2009 - 11:05 AM
    Lilith in virgo in 12th house
    incredible memory-
    incredible creativity-
    serves with no boundaries...
    able to retain dreams easily...
    overthinks leading to self-sabotage
  • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

    Sat, October 24, 2009 - 9:35 PM
    In my 12th house:

    Lilith - Aries
    Sun - Taurus
    Mercury - Aries
    Saturn - Aries
    Ascendant - Taurus


    On top of that, I have the Moon in my 8th house - Capricorn. This was a difficult aspect to have as a child not understanding the information I 'was receiving' did not correspond to the 'false front' people would show to me....very confusing at the time.

    When you speak of working with intangibles, you are correct. My chart is bent on all things hidden, taboo, and the like. The mystical awareness you speak of is an understatement...at least for me. I am slowly allowing this part of myself to be shown to others.

    Interesting article, thanks for sharing...
  • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

    Thu, April 15, 2010 - 11:33 AM
    Interesting thread... it caused me to become a temporary member.

    Yeah uhhmmm....

    Lilith: Aquarius / 12th House
    _______________________
    Sun: Leo / 5th House
    Moon: Pisces / 1st House
    Neptune retrograde in Sagittarius / 10th House
    Uranus retrograde in Sagittarius / 9th House
    _______________________

    So far it sounds like something I can completely absorb as concrete factual truth for a moment - thanks poster.
    Did someone hit the nail on the head? ...wow....

    so.... what do I tell my girlfriend (who's away for business) now that I've sold all our furniture just so we can move the middle-east to find ourselves?

    }.` > (X_O) ¬
    , | _ /
    ... !
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: Lilith in the 12th house

      Fri, April 16, 2010 - 7:07 AM
      < so.... what do I tell my girlfriend (who's away for business) now that I've sold all our furniture just so we can move the middle-east to find ourselves? >

      If you want to move the middle-east... it's best to take care of your back. I guess it's a heavy load.
  • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

    Sun, October 17, 2010 - 7:34 PM
    Love this article. Thank you for posting this.
    Mine is in the 12 house in Scorpio.
    Sun in Sag, rising in Sag, moon in sag arghhh ;-)
    Generally it's only the peoples who know me well who appreciates me the best. Sometimes complete strangers see what I am doing.
    I do agree with most of the article posted.
  • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

    Sun, October 2, 2011 - 6:30 AM
    Thank you for this article mary.
    im currently obsessed by finding out all i can, in this sort of frenzied excited way, about my scorpio lillith in th 12th. Im a bit concerned about all th 'real illusion' bits. Particularly since neptune is 2 degrees off my ascendant. Illusion or Intuition?? AAH! how indeed will i ever be able to tell now!? I trust my intuition completely, and feel adept at reading energies others overlook. So my question is this: There is th hightened sensitivity- yes, but is it an illusion? If i am receiving information others are not really conscious of, surely then- from their perspective, i am operating on illusion. But am i? In whos reality? Ach! - its all so confusing! :)
    thanx for ur contribution,
    xm
    • Re: What to do with intuition and illusion.

      Thu, March 22, 2012 - 1:31 PM
      I think that when we're talking about Neptune and the 12th house the illusion comes into play when we think we can change or transform another.
      I say this from my own experience as an astrologer of 30 years or more, and also from one who has neptune conjunct my midheaven and lilith in the 12th 4 degrees off the ascendent.
      I too struggle with the curse of being too tuned in. It took a transit of pluto over the ascendent to help me see that my personal work was to be true to the need to not spill over, too be discreet with what I see and feel, and perhaps trust that just because you tune into something doesn't mean you're supposed to actually do anything about it. I know that many feel that their psychic abilities are a calling, but remember that too can be a idea rooted in some dogma or another.
      What I have observed is that most people tune into energy, people on all levels of the evolutionary ladder. A criminal can read energy and have the intuition to time the heist perfectly.

      Personally, I think that the most tried and true interpretation of anything "neptune" is in its expression of a higher octave of venus. In my observations Neptunian types are the most exquisite artists and dancers, their voices positive angelic.
      Combine that with the observations of lilith being an expression of the darker, perhaps primal feminine energies that get suppressed as we get older, more "civilized" and "socialized" having it in the 12th in scorpio, maybe you're intense desire to tune into what you feel others aren't conscious of is your own desire to experience the unconscious side of yourself.
      :-)
  • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

    Sat, December 17, 2011 - 6:44 AM
    Hi! Where I can find a site or a program to my natal chart with Lilith???
    I'd be thankful!
    Yes, it is in my 12th house and my ruling sign... and determines me so much in my life.
    • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

      Sat, December 17, 2011 - 9:10 AM
      Hi Tammuz ~

      I'm not quite sure what you are asking ~ if you are looking for a free website that will chart Black Moon Lilith, Dark Moon Lilith, Asteroid Lilith & a few other Lilith points, I'd send you to www.astro.com ~ you have to add the Liliths that you want to show up on the chart in their "extended chart selections" ~ I can send you more specific details if that is what you are looking for

      if you are looking for interpretations of the various Liliths in a chart, that is going to be a bit more difficult ~ at this point, I don't know of any free online sources that do that ~ I have collected as many cookbook style interpretations from around the web as I can find & posted them in this tribe tribes.tribe.net/darkmoongoddesslilith but you'll have to search through multiple threads & pages to find the parts that best suit your chart

      I am pretty sure that there are some paid astrology programs that include Lilith, but I haven't used them, so I don't really know anything about them.

      love all-ways,
      mem
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    Re: Lilith in the 12th house

    Thu, September 5, 2013 - 6:54 PM
    Thank you for this extentensive post on 12th house lilith

    Me: 12th house lilith pisces conjunct chiron, opposition natal sun in virgo

    I can see where you were heading Mary although to my view it describes alot symptoms in detail, but doesn't quite grasp the essence

    Purely my personal idea a 12th house lilith is basically hiding her dark and manipulative skills at all costs, maybe even from herself - as she inherited a ' karmic guilt' (12th) for the damage done with these skills by ancestors. She contains their evil traits in the vault of her personality and with it, keeps her universal baby's safe from harm. As she can not pass on, she will at any time - even deliberately - choose ignorance and bliss over the suffering which she has 'seen enough of'. She will care for all people - even those who do not care for her - to repay to, and interact with humanity. The interaction itself can be purifying, regardless.

    Everything that isn't openly worked with builts pressure and needs an outlet at some point. Here come the immaterial realms where she can turn her negative burden into a positive one, depending on the sign, theatre, arts. science. Or, experiments with drugs or alcohol, which may even offer a temporary relief.

    So escapism yes, but for sometimes far more 'awake' than the opening post suggests.

    And let's not forget, where would our five senses be without our sixth sense, our sense of humor, right? After all, it's nothing that mobidly serious either ;-)
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    Re: Lilith in the 12th house

    Thu, September 5, 2013 - 6:59 PM
    Thank you for this extentensive post on 12th house lilith

    Me: 12th house lilith pisces conjunct chiron, opposition natal sun in virgo

    I can see where you were heading Mary although to my view it describes many many symptoms in detail, but doesn't quite grasp the essence

    Purely my personal idea a 12th house lilith is basically hiding her dark and manipulative skills at all costs, maybe even from herself - as she inherited a ' karmic guilt' (12th) for the damage done with these skills by ancestors. She contains their evil traits in the vault of her personality and with it, keeps her universal baby's safe from harm. As she can not pass on, she will at any time - even deliberately - choose ignorance and bliss over the suffering which she has 'seen enough of'. She will care for all people - even those who do not care for her - to repay to, and interact with humanity. The interaction itself can be purifying, regardless.

    Everything that isn't openly worked with builts pressure and needs an outlet at some point. Here come the immaterial realms where she can turn her negative burden into a positive one, depending on the sign, theatre, arts. science. Or, experiments with drugs or alcohol, which may even offer a temporary relief.

    So escapism yes, but a lot more 'awake' than the opening post suggests.

    And let's not forget, where would our five senses be without our sixth sense, our sense of humor, right? After all, it's nothing that mobidly serious either ;-) sorry! 12th house lilith
    • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

      Tue, October 22, 2013 - 5:14 AM
      I have lilith in 12. House in pisces.
      IRL I hate to be waken up to harsh realities, a bad morning ruins the whole day!
      I sure recognize a lot of what your saying Mary!
      I can be very realistic , but quite self-delusional when it comes to love.
      I could be the perfect co-addict!
      My vivid imagination, can get in the way.

      I see the same in my twinsister, though in different areas.
      We are a lot less competetive than a lot of other people, I know.
      I can even feel a little proud at times of having a weak ego,, :-/

      Only recently, I've come to realize, that I can not always trust my perception. And learn to trust my intuition much more.
      I have learned to thread with caution in the very real realm of illusions in real life!

      Yes I wish for the world could be a much softer and peaceful place, egocenticity will loose eventually!
      Strong deep waters. :-)
  • Re: Lilith in the 12th house

    Sat, April 26, 2014 - 4:43 PM
    I have Lilith in the 12 th house in Scorpio.
    Sag, sag rising, moon in sag. Mars + mercury + venus in Capricorn Neptune 12 th house scorpio

    Just recently came across Lilith. Wow. So interesting. I suppose it is as you get forward you discover these extra stars.

    Really enjoyed reading this article, even for me it is a bit of a difficult read, I'm from non English background. For me it really has been travelling and living as a foreigner. Born and bred in Luxembourg (one of the smallest countries on earth) I lived and worked on 3 continents, living in Melbourne Australia at present. I am very good with energy fields, when I ma what I call in the zone …. just cannot do it at times. So yes, your article is fantastic. Thanks for putting it into perspective for me. Thought it was absolutely brilliant.

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