12th House (No Apologies)'s topics - tribe.net

synastry: chiron in my 12th

2008-09-28T20:37:21Z

Hello,

Has anyone experienced this aspect with another person? What are the expectations/indications of chiron in the 12th in synastry?

Thanks to all!

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 0 replies

Genetics, the 12th House, and the "Teflon" Gene

2008-09-26T04:59:10Z

In Astrology, the most common “cause” of 12th House difficulties is traced to problems within the family, in particular the mother. The family environment is unfriendly, if not hostile, and the mother emotionally cold and distant. Thus, it would appear children born to such a family/mother would have 12th house placements and 12th house challenges. A second question immediately arises: Would ALL children born to such a family/mother have 12th house afflictions?

The immediate answer is “Not necessarily, two children in the same family are often treated differently.” While this is certainly true, there may be another factor which determines whether the 12th house will figure prominently in the childs' chart.

That factor is genetic. There apparently is a 12th house gene - or at least a "no 12th house" gene.

From an article in Newsweek magazine, reporting in part on the work of neurogeneticist David Goldman of the National Institute on Alcohol Abuse and Alcoholism, published in 2007:

“Another protective gene insulates children from the effects of an emotionally distant mother, one who is cold and uncaring, who turns away when her child feels the pain of a skinned knee no less than from a crushed dream. That is supposed to make a child more likely to develop "externalizing behavior," acting out in a bid for attention. But children with a certain form of a gene called DRD4, which stands for dopamine-receptor D4, are Teflon-coated, at little to no risk of becoming emotionally insecure as a result of mothers who are emotionally distant. .”

This leads to an interesting conclusion. It appears the genetic structure established at conception predetermines the time of day of the birth to come, and perhaps sets some minimal restrictions on the specific dates when birth may occur. Those having the usual form of DRD4 will have a 12th house emphasis in their charts, those with the “Teflon” variant will not.

Note: DRD4 has also been repeatedly linked with ADD, ADHD, tobacco and drug addiction in various genetic studies over the past few years, but there has been no “smoking gun” convincing study. As one researcher, Susan Smalley (Prof. Psychiatry and Biobehavioral Sciences, UCLA), put it: "The bottom line is we don't know which variation leads to the dopamine receptor changing in function,"

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 12 replies

12th house + handling pain

2008-09-14T02:23:27Z

Hello, newbie here and quite happy to be in this place. I have my Sun, Venus and Mars & Mercury in Gemini which is my twelfth house
and many astrologers have clucked their tongues sympathetically saying I have had a tough life (true) and that my challenges
lie in my 12th house, with one of my lessons being learning to understand my emotions. Vedic astrologers have looked at my chart and
said there's a lot of bad karma buried in my 12th house and my only salvation is meditation.

Is the 12th house all that painful to deal to with? Frankly my growing years have been painful and I've had some
real emotional disappointments romantically but I feel they've all been lessons to grow from. Why do so many astrologers
look at the 12th house so sombrely, and again why do they make it sound so morbid to the client?

Does the 12th house make it harder to deal with things emotionally or does it stand for repression, something I do a lot (deny
feelings and intellectualise everything)

Glad to hear youre feedback

Thanks

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 41 replies

12

2008-09-03T01:36:19Z

you do not have technology to calculate 12 th house

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 4 replies

12th Sun

2008-08-29T23:28:32Z

I have my sun in the twelth house. I've heard it was bad but I couldn't understand why.

Know what it means?
Who else has one?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 23 replies

12th House Secret Enemies

2008-08-28T11:44:36Z

I've heard mention of this many times, but, as typically observed with nearly anything related to the 12th house, very little seems clear. Are secret enemies in reference to (other) people who *secretly* try to bring you down (plus, can this be related to those from past incarnations, and/or present)? Or is it simply the shadowy aspects of the self that serve to undermine the individual (as in "you are your own worst enemy)? I'd be interested to hear what others think.

Sun + Moon + Pluto (conjunction) in 12th house.

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 21 replies

Sun and mercury intercepted in 12th

2008-08-23T15:44:08Z

What do you think about that? I have gemini-sag intercepted in VI-XII.
And there sun and mercury in gemini intercepted in 12th, and uranus, neptune in sag intercepted in 6th.
I never understud that... What does it means?
And i feel it very hard on me... Like a strugle... Every day...
I have my chart in photos.
Help...!

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 9 replies

Venus in 12th House and love

2008-08-13T22:40:38Z

Is there anyone out there who share my 12th House Venus, who probably also have or have had a troubled love life? If there is, I was hoping someone would encourage my faith in love by saying that it IS possible for someone with this placement of Venus to find themselves in a happy, committed relationship - preferably without the expence of cheating on your man/woman, or being the other woman to a man who's already in a relationship/marriage.

I am now 26 years old, and thus far my love life has really just been a fantasy - as one-way love truly is. In true 12th house Venus fashion, I have this tendency of falling for men I just can't have for one reason or another. Sometimes it's with a Hollywood actor, who doesn't even know I exist and who will NEVER be mine in a million years. Other times it's with men from my community, who are already happily in love with someone else, and who's love I can never receive, so I keep my own love for him a secret. Yet at other times, the man just simply isn't interested.

I have been wondering to myself wether I have a subconscious fear of commitment, since this pattern always seems to repeat itself. With my Moon, Venus, Uranus and Ascendant in Scorpio I do have a passionate nature and I expect a lot from my partners. But perhaps this very intensity scares me into entering into happy relationships - because it's not like I don't have any suitors. However, none of them (either my partners or the relationships itself) ever really lives up to my expectations. They just always seem too "empty".

I guess I'm just wondering about others' experiences: Hopefully there are someone with this placement out there in the great big world who have some happy-ending stories to tell to lift my spirits, because at this point I've almost begun to lose faith in love all together. I hate to say it, bit it's true. I'm just so tired of all these heartaches..

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 32 replies

is it as it's made out,we have so little control,12th house?

2008-08-04T09:42:11Z

why do folk speak as if we're almost helpless,& the planets have such influence,we are made to look like incapable.12th house , or what ever house,we make the final decisions, the planets merelt influence.have i got it wrong

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 23 replies

12th house sun, mercury & mars in composite

2008-07-17T08:07:26Z

Anyone had a composite with 3 or more major planets in the 12th? House ruler is Aquarius. What to think of this relationship?? Does it imply many secrets from one another...or just cultural differences...or the inability to take responsibility for this relationship? Ideas??

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 1 reply

Pluto in 12th house

2008-07-16T15:08:22Z

With Pluto in the 12th House consciousness is opening up to a power which can 'will into being'. Pluto in H12 has access to the Creator’s power and the purposes to which he will use it will reflect his level of development: he can manifest what he lusts after or he can will into being what he knows to be of benefit to mankind. For whatever he brings into being he will be held directly responsible.

A person with this placement of Pluto frequently knows much cruelty and abuse in childhood, be it of a physical, emotional or mental kind, and the perpetrators are usually the parents or guardians who have power over the child by virtue of their custodial role. From them the child has little opportunity to escape at the physical level and in order to get away he forces open a shutter in the mind which gives him access to enormous psychic power.

It is the law of the 12th House that for what is denied at the physical level is compensated at the immaterial.

The power of a person with Pluto in H12 is most readily evidenced by their often unconscious use of what has become known in New Age circles as Creative Visualisation: if he can hold an image or picture an outcome and give it his emotional energy he can bring it into being.

When used consciously, Pluto in H12 gives a person great charisma and the ability to make others into the agents of the outworking of his will. The responsibilities of this are enormous and the karma incurred through the use of the power conferred by Pluto in H12 is unlikely to be burned off in the course of a single lifetime. A person with this placement, if he is to work consciously with his powers, needs to be able to recognise and resist the voice of his desire nature.

dude i got chills and even started to get a little teary eyed reading this, especially the part "A person with this placement of Pluto frequently knows much cruelty and abuse in childhood, be it of a physical, emotional or mental kind, and the perpetrators are usually the parents or guardians who have power over the child by virtue of their custodial role. From them the child has little opportunity to escape at the physical level and in order to get away he forces open a shutter in the mind " fuck you mom and dad... you fucked up my childhood!!!!...

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 11 replies

is this not the most Tragic 12th house ever?

2008-07-08T18:53:29Z

My 12th house is very confusing i dont know what to make of it. January 8, 1987 (7.10am) Country = Poland zgorzelec = Longitude 15 Latitude 51
Saturn and Venus both in 12th which is scorpio AHHHHHHH everything i read sounds bad
help is needed, my horoscope is starting to scare me....

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 1 reply

Ruler of Ascendant in the 12th house

2008-06-28T22:06:32Z

This tribe's created for us who have our ascendants ruling planet in this house. How has it affected your lives? Have your lives been full of pain and loneliness? Share your thoughts and ideas regarding this matter.

I've personally got Scorpio rising, with Pluto in the 12th house.

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 21 replies

gentle intros

2008-06-03T15:32:14Z

in a hurry here . . . but this is a place to reveal the deep dark secret reasons why you've joined this tribe . . . if you care to.

my excuse:

Saturn at 14*Libra on the 12th House cusp (Koch)
Neptune 21*Libra in the 12th
Sun, Mercury and N.Node in Pisces

plus, i pissed off the moderator of the other 12th House tribe and got my ass booted outa there :-(

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 67 replies

12th House Mars in Gemini

2008-05-31T15:25:29Z

Hi everyone, anyone else have this placement?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 14 replies

Neptune blindsided or selfless

2008-05-25T11:51:56Z

All this talk about the 12th house love and such , We tend to think of Venus as love first but often Venus is a lazy , want graditiude and a somewhat self motivated planet whether it be other orientated or not, it comes back to what is mine . So I propose the question what does love have to do with Neptune ? Can optimism and sacrifice be good in a realtionship or even seeing the good or unique potential in your partner inspite of appearances .Love is pretty unknown and many fear crossing over to take that plung into love's rivers-a person can be lost in love or when one becomes a couple they loose certain parts of who they once where. What about spiritual and universal love ?
How many are willing to love the other beyond the dream? Do we love that prson or the potential spouse, who we want to make babies with buy a car with settle down or what not. Are we willing to give it up if our lover doesn't want any of those things to be with the person beyond the planning and dreaming?
Just some fun thoughts thrown out there for Neptune in this tribe of 12th housers of no appologies.
Let's talk amongst ourselves !
kate

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 8 replies

yod or finger of god

2008-05-08T16:25:19Z

anyone heard of this or have it in your chart? I have four planets in gemini in the 12th house (sun, mercury, venus, & mars) and have been told I have a yod as well.

"Finger of God
Also called the Finger of Fate or Yod. Comprises two planets in sextile (60°) aspect to each other, each making a 150° aspect focused on the same third planet (opposing their midpoint). Indicative of a special life purpose, it creates the sensation of steadiness, special passion, deep aspiration and a strong inner drive to accomplish something very important and special.

A Yod occurs when two planets in sextile (60° apart) and both form an inconjunct (a 150° angle) with a third planet. The third planet in the inconjunct represents the action point of the Yod; the mid point between the other two planets is the reaction point. This is also referred to as the Finger of God or the Finger of Fate and is an uncommon configuration. The configuration is usually troublesome and difficult to handle during childhood but can develop into an ingenious force in later period. This configuration is often found in the charts of spiritual persons of repute."

I have not yet experienced the ingenious force part yet and I am turning 40 on June 13th. Nor am I a person of any repute whatsoever....

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 3 replies

Saturn in the 12th, sleep problems?

2008-05-08T07:43:25Z

I have always had a hard time with sleep. I need sleep aides to get a really good night's rest. Have you ever heard of Saturn limiting sleep if it's in the 12th? Also, anything you can tell me about saturn in 12th? Could this mean past karmic ties w/dad?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 22 replies

12th House Venus in Sagittarius

2008-04-14T21:57:57Z

Hey all, I am forever curious about my Venus in Sagittarius in the 12th house and it's... 'unique' approach to love and relationships. Fire and water don't bring much harmonious outcomes, and the unwillingness of Sag to get emotionally involved vs. the intense emotions of the 12th house and Pisces often causes internal conflict. I am forever doubting what to do, what steps to take etc. My Mars in Pisces does not help this situation either and is very frustrating. On the other hand, I have a Venus trine Mars so I was wondering if any of you have any thoughts on this Piscean flavour of my relationships. Often I date men with Mars in Gemini, which I think makes some connection to my Mars and Venus but I'm not sure what exactly. I dated a Venus in Pisces once and it was dreamy. On the other hand Venus in Aries often comes up in my relationships and I'm not sure what aspects this makes.

My Ascendant is also in Sagittarius and the first house rules five of my planets. Other than that I have a third house ruling of Mars, and this Venus in the 12th.

What are the characteristics of Venus in Sag, and what happens with it's in the 12th house? Am I even more repressed than is usual with the 12th house, since my 'fire' sign is being 'put out' by the strongest water sign? How to deal?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 8 replies

the anti-christ

2008-04-05T23:14:38Z

i was going through this website and came across the chart of the "anti-christ" it was rather interesting because most of his planets are in aquarius & in the 12th house. surely they're kidding.... perhaps an astrologer came up with their own calculations and plugged them in.

thought you would all find this one interesting...

Astrotheme's site is great btw.

http://www.astrotheme.fr/en/portraits/8fg6N6R582Q2.htm

Map of the Heavens, Planets, Astrological Chart, Horoscope

ANTI-CHRIST,

born February 5, 1962 at 7:07 AM in Tel El Amarna (Egypte)
Sun in 15°55 Aquarius, AS in 22°47 Aquarius,
Moon in 18°49 Aquarius, MC in 4°35 Sagitarius

Sun 15°55' Aquarius
Moon 18°49' Aquarius
Mercury 16°41' Aquarius
Venus 18°02' Aquarius
Mars 2°32' Aquarius
Jupiter 18°40' Aquarius
Saturn 3°50' Aquarius
Uranus 29°02' Leo
Neptune 13°28' Scorpio
Pluto 9°25' Virgo

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 50 replies

comments re.my saturn in 12th house,12th cusp aquarius.i'd like to look deep2see honestly if all the negative 12th house stuff is pertinant

2008-03-31T01:36:05Z

and, positive stuff please,
of course 12th house people SHOULD have a deeper understanding on this , but perhaps non 12th house folk too?
i often feel like such a novice, but so happy to learn,
and ruthless honesty is always appreciated by me...

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 1 reply

This I never understood about my chart...any help

2008-03-22T22:39:09Z

So I've pretty much joined tribe to talk about astrology (Kinda sad huh?). I've been studying it for years, but I'm curious about something in particular...

I'm a Sagittarian sun/uranus/saturn stellium with merucry next to that cluster all in 8th... aries rising conjunct aries moon. Obviously alot of fire... my two rulers, being mars and jupiter, are conjunct in Pisces 12th house. They hate everything in Sag. Regardless...

Mars and jupiter in such a position, what would that ultimately mean about karma and what not? So many implications are attributed to the 12th house, and for me it's apparently a fireball.

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 4 replies

does retrograde have a weaker, stronger, or neither affect on an individaul/dual

2008-03-03T17:15:21Z

please give your comments, advice, etc.thanks.
prefer to hear from experience,please

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 6 replies

uberPisces

2008-03-03T10:49:08Z

Hey, 12th House folks. What would you say about someone whose Sun/Mercury/Venus were conjunct in 12th House Pisces and all squaring (8th House) Neptune. That's a lot of Piscean energy hitting those three planets! I have a friend w/that there set-up and I was getting a bit mixed up about how to distinguish the impacts of the various influences involved (sign/House/aspect), since they share a lot in common, and I was also curious if anyone knew what that condensed of a Pisces influence might be like (in contrast, for example, to just having the planets in the sign but in another House and not making the Neptune aspects).

Thanks!!

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 7 replies

need help

2008-02-20T05:18:43Z

So I still need some help with the, moon & mercury in Cancer, which is the 12th house, thing. Won't you please tell me something?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 2 replies

Mercury in 12th?

2008-02-12T00:41:22Z

Anyone have this, or opinions on it? Have Mercury in the 12th, in Aries, seems I have a ton of ideas but it all falls apart when I try to put them into words, would that be because of 12th house or possibly from some other aspect?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 12 replies

Venus in first house problems!

2008-02-08T17:39:43Z

Hello
I am new here. Thank you all very much for accepting me here:)
I read a lot of your posts, and I see that many are very interesting.I am new to astrology and I am mainly here to find some questions to my personal chart and life experience.
Even I saw that people are complaining on there 12 house Venus, I would like to ask about first house Venus.
I am married now and soo happy with a little baby girl that couldnt be better and sweeter at all.I am fine art graduate and I am on my master in art teaching.
I have problem with being overly and easily influenced, overly sensitive to how people look at me.
I had few one night stands in my teens which I regret so much now. I just let it go.
I am so sensitive to my self image that it still hurts me even time passed.
can somebody tell me more about Venus in first house and problems that it can make?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 3 replies

hello

2008-01-23T05:27:17Z

I just wanted to introduce myself, thank you for allowing me to be a part of this tribe. I am just another college student, taking an educational break to find meaning in my life, and save enough money to move across the states and away from home. =) I have a deep interest in Astrology and its relation to everything, the energetic relationships between all "living" and "non-living" things, and their energetic connection to the cosmos.

so many astrology tribes =). have you settled with a select few? or do you try to participate in all of them?

Ive posted this in a few others.

peace love and light to you all.

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 0 replies

Pluto transit conjunct natal Mars in 12th house

2007-12-14T03:40:32Z

Hello.

The transit of Pluto will soon conjunct my natal Mars (0 degrees Cap) in my 12th house. What should I expect/prepare for? My data: b. 4/14/54 at 12:53am in Boston.

Any and all input appreciated.

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 2 replies

Progressed moon in 12th

2007-12-09T20:58:41Z

So recently my progressed moon moved into my natal 12th house. In the process, it's in the sign of Capricorn, conjunct my Saturn and Neptune (both natal and progressed).

At first, I had very, very, strange dreams. Not just odd dreams. But very strange. Like, I think one of the first ones I had, was about going back to the high school I left, and in order to get to the other side of the school, I had to climb over a dome made of very thin and breakable white pipes. A friend of mine was climbing over them like a monkey, chanting that I simply couldn't do it. Once I got over to the other side, I realized that I had left my books in my locker (which were on the other side of the school) and so, climbed back over it, and got my books. When I got back, I sat in the class maybe five minutes before I stood up and started screaming at the teacher that she was unfair and patronizing. My response at the end of my loud lecture was a strange smile and, "Thank you."

Anyway. So I had strange dreams for a few weeks, and they were very detailed. Someone suggested I start a dream diary to record them, and attempt to find some sort of meaning to them. I never remember my dreams in that kind of detail, so it was quite different. After a few weeks of weird dreams, I started having sleep issues (as my progressed moon moved further from Neptune and closer to Saturn). I'm attempting to avoid sleep aids, because I'm not a fan of using drugs from past experiences, so I've been using chamomile tea, which works very well for me. Still, the best I've been able to do is fall asleep at 2 AM and run on five or six hours of good sleep. The rest of the time, it's 4 or 5 am, and not getting up until late afternoon.

Does anybody have any experience with progressed moon in 12th and sleep issues? Does it eventually go away, or is it just that I'm getting the intense effects of it because it JUST entered my 12th?

Thank you in advance for any help. =)

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 3 replies

can someone look at my chart?

2007-11-23T03:55:00Z

hi, can anyone look at this mess and tell me what the fuck i am going to do with it all. unfortunately suicide, and alcohol abuse, or anything from the past will not give me what i need to be there.

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 3 replies

New Pisces Tribe

2007-11-21T20:26:19Z

Hi all!

For some reason i was not accepted into the other Pisces tribe so i decided to make my own. This new tribe is a paranoid-free zone, open to everyone and anyone who loves the fish. You are all welcome to check it out!

tribes.tribe.net/allpisces

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 2 replies

house systems

2007-11-21T18:34:48Z

hi folx...I am wondering about koch and placidus house systems, and orbs for conjunctions. my sun is 27 degrees libra, my moon is at 20.5 degrees libra conjunct pluto at 19.5 degrees. pluto is my chart ruler, and the sun and moon are pretty personal planets that get extra emphasis, so are these three in conjunct?
now about house systems, in the koch I have these 3 planets in the 12th along with venus. in the placidus its pluto and moon in the 11th conjunct a 12th house sun. I think the koch may be more resonant with my personality, but then again most of my freinds are women (11th house emphasis) which one is correct?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 1 reply

anyone notice the friggen grand water trine kite yesterday and today???

2007-11-03T08:23:11Z

i feel so all alone!
http://people.tribe.net/arize/photos/9029cfc7-fab0-4e03-9c0b-3b1f78766c3d

its just that my leetle fishy sun is all activated and screamin under uranus, ya know?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 15 replies

saturn - uranus 12th house

2007-10-26T15:47:43Z

Isn't it strange that both saturn and uranus are not only in the 12th house/sag, but also making exactly the same aspects in my chart? I sometimes feel everything in my life is related to this huge conflict between freedom and inhibition eg. saturn and uranus. If you have any thoughts on this or have a similar placement (!!) - your replies are highly appreciated.

Uranus & Saturn in the Twelfth House
Uranus & Saturn in Sagittarius
Saturn Conjunct Uranus
Uranus & Saturn Conjunct Ascendant
Sun Opposition Uranus & Saturn
Jupiter Trine Uranus & Saturn
Moon Sextile Uranus & Saturn

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 0 replies

Jupiter , Neptune And North Node In The 12th ..........

2007-10-25T21:51:17Z

Hey there Peops Iam new to this Tribe and just wanted to mention about how I have this placement in my Natal Chart so both Jupiter & N Node are in Libra and are Conjunct and Neptune is in Scorpio and also Conjunct Jupiter as the Orb is very close between them and Neptune is Conjunct my Ascendent in Scorpio .

Also everything in my 12th is in Sextile to Sun , Mercury , and Pluto in my 10th House so I guess that one can say that I have had an interesting existance on this Planet so far .

Peace....... Vlad .

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 0 replies

Moon in the 12th

2007-10-25T21:14:49Z

Any advice, comments, explanations, ravings, etc re: Moon in the 12th House? Specifically, Moon ( and Mercury) in Cancer, in the 12th. Tell me everything!

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 0 replies

H12 and Career

2007-10-22T23:29:57Z

I've heard it said that if you have Pluto in H12 that you're a natural psychologist. Does H12 give us natural, unconscious abilities or talents? Can you relate your H12 to your career? H12/Pisces/Neptune also relates to the collective and fame. If you can tap into the collective, you can become famous. After you become famous, you go into hiding. Many world leaders and royalty have Sun or Saturn in H12 such as Bush, Putin, Blair, Chirac, Thatcher, Indira Gandhi, Dalai Lama, Prince Albert, Queen Victoria. Many of these people have no planets in H6 or H10. Many divinely inspired inventors such as Alexander Graham Bell, Ben Franklin, and Nicola Tesla have H12 planets. Many famous singers, painters and actors have H12 planets as do many famous astrologers.

Scorpio rules my H12. Sagittarius is also in my H12. I have mutual reception with Saturn in H12 and Neptune in H10. This has to do with the natural application of laws and authority. I work in the legal field, and police brutality cases have been my claim to fame.

Can you relate your career to your H12 placements?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 22 replies

Lilith in the 12th house

2007-08-27T05:12:41Z

from Interpreting Lilith by D.G.Jay (1981)
(technically this book is about Dark Moon Lilith, but I think that it can be applied to all the Liliths, especially for those just starting to de-tangle Lilith's many confusing forms)

Lilith in this natural house of Neptune, exaggerates ideals, receptivity & whatever is the level of sensitivity in this one's makeup. In the 12th house Lilith sensitizes the native to deep wells of etheric energy, accounting for n extraordinary imagination when positive & illusion or self-delusion when it is negative. When positive, there are the products of a beautifully creative imagination. This indicates sensitivity for work with color, picturing or shading, denoting artistic talent if the rest of the chart is supportive. There is ability for work with intangibles ~ such as energy fields, either as a scientist or mystic depending on the cut of the chart; or with the delicate nuances of sound or rhythm ~ as in the case of a musician or dancer. It may be metaphysics or the paranormal ~ as in the case of psychics or parapsychologists. They can act on stage or in films because they can convincingly identify with a fictional role, due to the unusual ability to relate easily to the world of imagination

They have a deep mystical awareness that they may choose not to admit, or literally deny in themselves, because of the exaggeration of it in their minds as the stronger reality they secretly fear they cannot handle; might separate them from others; or invite rejection.

When selfishly motivated (justified or not), or where the emotions are undisciplined or misdirected, Lilith's higher level of inspirational guidance is denied positive outlet because it is entirely foreign to the negative desire nature & therefore debilitating. It is hostile to the desires of the flesh, where this one is apt to deify his own desires & blind himself to whatever may deny them. The visionary quality become distorted. The Lilith energy buildup, releasing through no detachment or personal objectivity to make it independent of the emotional, turns in on itself to literally blind the native to certain facts. This causes serious self-defeating errors in his (or her) judgment. In the 12th Lilith magnifies illusions to unhealthy levels, when the quality of detachment is lacking.

There is a kind of naivete about one who has Lilith in the 12th that literally invites deception. They believe what they idealize to be true, literally, & no amount of alerting them to certain facts seems to help. They leave themselves open to deception through ignoring (or having ignored), signals along the way, because of an almost childlike optimism. This is suspected by those close to them, but it is amazing to those who only see their deliberate outer composure.

... It makes the illusion as concrete a reality to them as a stone fence might be to another. To say that this one can be naive on the emotional level is a masterpiece of understatement. They seem to have an incredible mental block where their personal realities are concerned. On this level their otherwise good judgment is as if paralyzed when the threat of upset is on the wind. Love & affection mean too much to them, so what they cannot face they simply consider non-existent & that's that. You might say these people inspired the phrase "burying one's head in the sand", or "what you don't know can't hurt you". When finally awakened to the hard realities, in other words, disillusioned, this one feels not only betrayed but as if brutally awakened. he becomes as disoriented as you might be if you were sleeping & someone suddenly flashed on all the lights while shouting at you.

He needs to view or deal with his life through the more pragmatic eyes of the intellect (the logical) for sufficient detachment from the overactive imagination, to balance it. Until he really wants to do this & though he may be outstanding in in other ways, he or she is capable of immersing the self comfortably, if naively, in the 'dream' of what a certain person or situation should represent, rather than to the facts. Though they may find it hard to admit & apparently even to themselves, they are deeply apprehensive of their ability to cope with mundane realities. They prefer to lose themselves to their great preoccupation with love & ideals.

So long as a personal situation serves their purpose they can completely close their eyes to certain things they do not wish to see & let it go at that. Can you see how they can be taken advantage of for a time? It is an amazing thing to observe, even though they can be discriminating otherwise in the more impersonal areas of their life. There seems to be no logic as to why they will tolerate certain personal situations.

When positive we have the sensitivity or visionary person who can immerse himself in areas that productively or impersonally channel the sensitivity for the greater release of their fertile imagination. In this area we have the actors, artists, dancers, writers, inventors, technologists, or a work of some kind that satisfies the creative imagination. At the very least, there is something of the dreamer in all of them.

Where Lilith is located the victory is in the letting go & in this case, of self-serving dreams. Lilithian energy is only debilitating when denied.

In severe cases where this one cannot or will not detach, the refusal to be uprooted from his or her false dream, no matter what is told, until it is smashed, may reverse the too trusting attitude into an unhealthy bitterness; escape into secret indulgences; or distort the personality for having had their rose-colored glasses removed. It leaves them feeling stripped naked from their comfortable illusions & exposed into a chilling world. In this case the negative attitude may create illness, a wasted life or simply another illusion for them to comfortably wrap themselves in. This only delays the inevitable awakening for another disillusionment. It is not Lilith that is static, as much as it is the desire to "hide in the dream" that is their own self-undoing. One day when they are forced to face the reality of the situation (however it occurs), they will have to admit that they did use it to avoid certain decisions as much as it or the person used them. The problem seems sudden, but the handwriting was on the wall to all it seems but themselves.

One with Lilith in the 12th deeply need the inspiration of an artistically imaginative environment.... They could lose themselves in it meditatively for a time from the 'real' world, as if to refresh the soul. They need this as much as another might need rest & relaxation for the body. It essentially satisfies their need & their strong affinity for the delicate or the idyllic, which is actually the greater reality to them. They need refreshment for the soul from things aesthetic as urgently as others need refreshment from food & drink. It helps them to get or maintain their emotional perspective & detachment from themselves, for good personal balance. Given these nourishments we have some of the most creatively sensitive artists & intelligent scientists (material or occult), because of the tremendous insight & feeling Lilith makes these people heir to in the 12th house.

Where vocations are concerned, the actor or actresses among them make excellent use of the exaggerated imaginative factor of Lilith in the 12th. It is a particularly wealthy source to draw from in their work of visualizing a reality other than their own. They can forget themselves completely to relate to the unreality of a fictional character. Rather than a weakness, it becomes their strength as the capacity to believe for a time that they are in fact the character they are portraying, enabling them to lose themselves in it easily.

In theatre, within detachment to their work, Lilith heightens charisma, memory & the reflective quality they have to temporarily make real something unreal. here they can work with illusion as a tool of their trade, keeping the reality & the unreality clearly defined & in good balance.

When capable of spiritual objectivity, people with Lilith in the 12th can be instrumental in inspiring others through their emphasis on selfless ideals and mystical beliefs. If the chart supports it, they can be excellent in healing work.

people with Lilith in the 12th:

Joseph Cotton, '40s film star
Greta Garbo, illusive film star
Meher Baba, mystic
Charles H. Mayo, founder of the Mayo Clinic
Werner Von Braun, aeronautical engineer

I'd love to hear from those with a 12th house Lilith for feedback!

love all-ways,
mem

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 3 replies

I got a question....

2007-08-05T15:36:47Z

Would anyone be intrested in talking anything on the 4th house? There seems not to be a tribe on the 4th house... Reason why not to start one? Everyone is obessed with Scorpio and Pisces.... the 8th and 12th houses when it comes towards the water houses....

This morning I was posting on another tribe, the 12th house one, and I was shocked on how someone could respond to 4th house talking, as a sin to do on a 12th house page... as if the 12th house is ment to be private... and a secret of its own... It really did kind of offend me, and I been in a pissy mood all morning long....

I don't understand how someone could completely learn about the 12th, without studying the 4th.The Moon does have as much rulership over the Oceans as Neptune. I think all the water houses need to know eachothers... and not think that one makes more special then another one.

And that even applies with the 8th too.

There is no voice for the 4th anywhere...... and they say the 12th is so well hidden....

Who knows... Any Advice?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 12 replies

4th House tribe

2007-07-31T09:05:00Z

invitation to populate a new tribe:
http://tribes.tribe.net/4H

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 0 replies

PLUTO IN THE 12th

2007-07-19T14:52:20Z

and all of life's mysteries. Dum-dum-dum...

I am fascinated with this placement. Can anyone share insight?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 9 replies

Hi, i'm new to the tribe

2007-06-28T16:20:18Z

Hi, recently i've taken a deep interest in astrology and have been analyzing my chart for a while. I've looked up the individual meaning of each aspect and planet in sign and house, ect., but i can't seem to pull it all together, as i seem to understand, as astrologers do. Here is some of my chart: moon, neptune, and saturn (with moon conjuncting neptune) in capricorn in the 12th house, moon and neptune trine sun in virgo in the 8th house. If anyone could offer any insight, it would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Mason

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 2 replies

New to Tribe and What Fun to Find this Group! Three Planets plus in My 12th - all in Leo!!!

2007-06-06T11:45:22Z

This looks like a great place to learn more and help me continue to dissect my chart. I have three planets in my 12th (in Pisces). Sun in Leo, Uranus in Leo and Mercury in Leo with Transpluto in Leo and my Eq, also in Leo. OYOYOY! NN in Sag and Moon in Aquarius sure help!

Thanks for being here!

Kathy

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 1 reply

12th house

2007-05-29T10:40:24Z

12th house areas of influence include institutions, such as hospitals and jails and other "places of confinement," as well as the hidden side of life and secrets, handicaps, and worries. However, it also is the area of introspection, self-examination, our hardest battles and greatest triumphs. It is said to govern those things we must work out for and by ourselves, how we relax, sleep, and dream, and the sum gains from all the other house activities in any given cycle.

That's how life is, you know. Everything is related to everything else in some way, shape, or form. That's why when asked what Astrology really is, I usually respond that it is the art/science of how everything relates to everything else, within ourselves as well as in the outer world. So when regarding the 12th (or any other) house, see how it is related to all the other areas of existence, with the understanding that every ending is followed by a new beginning, and even apparent defeats, failures, and frustrated harvests may still open doors for future successes and benefits directly related to whatever was left over from previous cycles.

Self-Undoing Behaviors and the 12th House ~ Navigating Endings

A reader asked me to given some examples of what I mean when I speak of "self-undoing behaviors." To me, these are associated with the 12th house, and there are two forms of self-undoing behaviors; the positive, and the negative. This will be welcome news for anyone having a hard time with the changes.

If our attitude is positive, or when we know an inner truth, when it's time to end or "undo" an old part of our life, usually we don't have problems with doing what must be done. We can usually see clearly when it's time to "undo" an old aspect of our life and then we focus on doing what we have to do. When it's time for things to end, we end them, whether we like it or not. Our attitude can get in the way, but mostly it's about how much we're choosing to suffer or enjoy the journey.

Usually when I write about self undoing behaviors , I'm referencing the 12th house negative possibilities, since these are what most people have a hard time with. These kinds of "self-undoing behaviors" are the many unfortunate ways we have of messing up something that doesn't need messing up, and often bring sorrow, doubt, confusion, or regrets.

Some examples of these kinds of self-undoing behaviors are when you do things that jam your own gears, or turn out to have unintended negative consequences. They are the things we do unconsciously, or consciously without understanding the implications of what we're doing, or are doing something we don't need to be doing, and probably shouldn't be doing. It can involve working against your own best interests, self-betrayal, hypocrisy, or not listening to your conscience or your inner voice.

It can range from hesitancy when boldness is needed to rash behavior putting things at risk needlessly. It can be moodiness when you should be celebrating, or reverting to old behaviors that cannot possibly have a favorable outcome at present. It may be trying to achieve something using the wrong tools and not realizing it until after the fact, or trusting something or someone that should not have been trusted to begin with. It could be treating something cheaply that should be held as precious, or the verbal slip that destroys social bonds that didn't need to be broken, or thoughtless ways of dealing with something or someone important to us.

Usually, self-undoing behaviors are associated with regrets. They are a good signal that a 12th house activity is happening in your life. And to be fair, just as there are regrets for things we didn't do right, it is also natural for there to be regrets at the end of every cycle, for all the potential that could have been but for whatever reasons never came to fruition. These types of regrets are very human, and shouldn't be taken as an inner signal to give yourself a hard time or start thinking you did something wrong.

It's all just reminding us to stay alert for appropriate endings as we move through the NOW, and be mindful so that we don't do what we shouldn't, or neglect to do what is in our best and highest interests. Since all we see, know, and live are vibrations, once we realize life is eternal flux we can move with the changes instead of resisting them or clinging to obsolete ways of doing our Being. There may be little comfort and no security in this transitory human condition, but there are lots of ways to learn how to live and give love, to ourselves, each other, and our world. And that's a very good thing.

The Twelfth House: Secret Agent Man

The Twelfth House gets a bad rap in many astrology books, particularly the older ones. Sometimes it's called the House of Secrets; others call it the House of Self-Undoing, or the House of Sorrows. Because one of us has five planets in her twelfth house, we know there's more to it than all these bad vibes. But let's take a moment to look at where this bad reputation came from.

Astrologer Steven Forrest calls the Twelfth House the House of Troubles, but also makes it clear that it's consciousness itself that resides here. This is the point at which self meets soul, where ego can merge into spirit.

Successfully navigate your twelfth house and you'll transcend your everyday worries. Planets in this house also can help you to learn lessons that free you from past destructive patterns. Unsuccessfully navigate it, and your self-image will be blurry. You may self-destruct through alcohol, drugs, or the wrong people or seem to have chronic “bad luck.”

Your twelfth house can be self-transcendence, moving beyond the ego to what's beyond the self, your higher consciousness, your unconscious, and what you don't yet know. Or, it can be your undoing. How you navigate your twelfth house is up to you. Its ruler is Pisces, and its associated planets are Neptune and Jupiter: Neptune, the mystical, and Jupiter, the fortunate, or when overdone, the unfortunate.

Skeletons in Your Closet

Your twelfth-house sign describes your past, the types of social services you may perform, and how you express (or don't express) your unconscious. Your twelfth-house ruler describes where and how you can develop beyond your self and serve the larger collective. The house where Pisces, the corresponding natural sign, is shows where you need to be of service to others and in what areas of your life your have great potential to develop your unconscious.

from http://www.aquariuspapers.com/astrology/2007/05/the_12th_house.html

love, love, love,
mem

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 0 replies

12th house according to vedic astrology

2007-05-29T09:36:47Z

According to vedic astrology, 12th house denotes expenditure of both tongue and sexual organ.since,12th house is 12th from the ascendant,therefore it also denotes foreign travels and the next life of the concerned person-heaven,hell ,moksha.It also indicates the extend of fame the person can get after his death.while exalted jupiter makes the person holy and pious,exalted venus(in pisces)makes the person extremely lustful.Interestingly, both exalted jupiter and venus lead to heaven. This is primarily because venus in aries ascendant is lord of 2nd house and sitting in 12th house.Hence, such venus make the person spend his family money on religious and holy works.

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 16 replies

How do I know if I'm a 12th house heavy hitter?

2007-05-01T22:08:45Z

I'm new to understanding my birthchart. How is one to know if she's a "heavy hitter" when it comes to the 12th House? My sun sign, Libra is there, along with Pluto and Mars (I think Mars in borderline). Any feedback is welcome and appreciated. Thanks for your time.

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 7 replies

Secrets and hiding places

2007-04-22T20:24:22Z

There is a part of me inside that nobody could reach. A part of me that is hidden, or rather, hiding from other people. Perhaps hiding from myself? What is it and why am i hiding it? I really don't know.

I find that there are things i can't tell my family or closest friends. Things i need to keep to myself, things that i need to hold sacred within and not reveal. Yet, i can't grasp the reason why i have to hide. These are not deep dark secrets, just everyday mundane matters. I just have an impulse to alter the truth of how i'm really feeling inside or what i'm really thinking; sometimes even what i'm doing. I just hide. An unconscious instinct. And that impulse only occur when i feel an attention directing on me; I have no qualms about standing up for the truth, and sometimes fighting for it, when it is a universal truth.

Perhaps this is an indication of past-life memories of being persecuted for expressing inner truths? Perhaps a persecution associated with confinement? Perhaps this is the reason i have a hard time living by faith and not by sight, for faith may have been the cause of my prior downfall? My South Node in Pisces could be another clue.

Universal truths. Perhaps a lack of trust of the inner self is the reason for a reliance on universal truths.

I feel safe in this tribe here.
I began this post without a clue, now i may be having an epiphany. Maybe 2:

1) Now i'm beginning to feel how the 12th House can be a sanctuary. I feel an inner calm when i am writing from my 12th House.
2) Vesta in my 12th: I hold sacred what is hidden in me; my subconcious. But i must learn to let it go and set it free; or it will become my inner confinement.

~===Light a candle now in your hiding places. Bring a little light to your sanctuary.===~

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 6 replies

The meaning of the 12th house

2007-04-18T02:47:52Z

I just had my natal chart done for the first time in my life about five months ago. I ‘m just now beginning to understand astrology terminology meaning etc. My sun and moon are in Cancer and both are 12th house. I suppose this can’t be good. Any help with meaning of moody Cancer in sun and moon in 12th house would be appreciated.

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 20 replies

large animals

2007-03-20T23:28:02Z

it recently came up in the astrology tribe & I've been thinking & thinking about it.....

why 'large' animals as opposed to 'small' animals (6th house) & where do wild animals fall into all of this?..... any thoughts?

love all-ways,
mem

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 33 replies

12th House Quotes

2007-03-20T20:18:43Z

"We must be willing to let go of the life we have planned, so as to accept the life that is waiting for us." ~ Joseph Campbell (thanks, Leda)

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 1 reply

Let's make 12th house soup

2007-03-19T01:21:34Z

We are all familar with astrology cook books -hows about this collective group of 12th house no apolgies tribe members make up a pot of our own .
First some one throw a planet into the pot and someone explains or people can several explain it.
Then when we cannot think of anything more for that planet placement we can add another planet and do the same thing -as time goes by we can add a side dish (aspects) we can season the soup -which would can be sign and planet combinations.

First -I'll throw some sun into the 12th house soup pot

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 37 replies

Why are tears salty?

2007-01-24T04:01:22Z

I had a weird fish dream and have been wondering this question. I know our body gets rid of sodium...but started googling things and can't find much to make sense to me.
found this on yahooanswers...

"Tears evolved in vertebrates to replace the saltwater bath that fish eyes constantly experience. The human lacrimal gland produces about 1 cubic cm of tears a day under normal conditions. These tears serve to wet and clean the cornea. When the eye becomes irritated by a foreign body (such as a dust particle on the cornea), tears are produced in excess and can effectively wash away the irritant. Tear fluids are rich in sugars and protein and act as a significant nutrition source for the cornea. Tears also have anti-bacterial properties making them effective at fighting infections. Tears are salty to create an osmotic balance with the fluid inside the eye.

In short, tears are salty because the fluid in your eye is salty. Now why is the fluid in your eye salty?"

http://ebiomedia.com/gall/eyes/protect.h...

I dunno..maybe this is dumb, but do you think there is a 12th house connection to this?

The salty taste of the ocean and Pisces..deep emotions. Funny how emotion rhymes with ocean.

Or am I just trying to make sense of things too much again?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 10 replies

Posting Birth Chart

2007-01-03T00:50:02Z

Hi all:
I am having a heck of a time trying to post my BirthChart. It won't download under pics or blogs. Anyone know what to do about posting a chart. I have tried both off my computer and through photobucket...no luck. Want you to see my pretty 12th house Mars.

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 3 replies

the akashic house?

2006-12-19T01:12:58Z

so, what if the 12th is the repository of the akashic records, and astrology describes it as unconscious or subconscious because in fact our conscious grasp of it is merely gazillions of times overwhelmed by the sheer volume of all?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 58 replies

psychic & the paranormal

2006-12-09T05:57:43Z

i see that we have a few who have alot of interest in this area....

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 29 replies

interesing sites

2006-11-30T02:59:47Z

http://www.spirit-alembic.com/ray.html

use year of apx. conception, not year born

this had some interesting things

http://www.spirit-alembic.com/metaphysical.html

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 0 replies

Apology - short break

2006-11-27T14:07:51Z

Okay, go ahead and snicker...

I just wanted to let you guys know I am taking a break...I have to go out of town for about a week. My husband and I are building a house and its almost finished...his parents are coming to visit and we will be spending the time out there getting things done. There's no power or phone out there yet and its some distance from here, so I am totally out of touch when I'm there.

I feel the 12th house dynamic of letting go here! Also, I am so overwhelmed...coming here for me was a totally cool coincidence (which is why I trust it) but I was not expecting so much intensity and so much information so fast!

I love this group and am so pleased to be part of it. I felt it would be rude of me to not post all of a sudden for so long after posting alot and not let anyone know. Until our house is finished and we get moved (another month or so), I am in and out for days at a time. I can't wait to get moved and settled and be able to focus more...I was writing notes to myself all morning about future posts that will have to wait for now. I look forward to talking more soon with all of you!

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 5 replies

INSANE 12th House Composite Chart =|

2006-11-21T01:21:32Z

Help?!

I have no idea how to interpret this..

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v647/Yamguy/Composite.gif

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 5 replies

Article on near-death experiences

2006-10-01T02:17:10Z

I liked a lot of what this article had to say. I haven't had the chance to read it all yet, but I thought I'd post it.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.near-death.com/images/graphics/new_age/astrology/zodiac.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.near-death.com/experiences/research01.html&h=141&w=140&sz=8&hl=en&start=17&tbnid=uodKCziPFBnfGM:&tbnh=94&tbnw=93&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dcycle%2Bof%2Bbirth%2Band%2Bdeath%2B%26svnum%3D10%26hl%3Den%26lr%3D%26sa%3DG

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 0 replies

Tribe Chart

2006-10-01T02:14:11Z

I was thinking it would be very interesting to run a chart for this tribe! It was started August 28, just a couple of weeks ago. I am not sure of the time and place...I am thinking this is info for Steve as moderator to fill in...Steve, where are you and about what time did this new tribe come together that day? Does anybody know?

I'm opening this for threads and am very interested in running this chart myself once the info shows up...but alas...I am about to step out again for a short time for some work on our new house and catch up on things I need to get done. I'm winding up, then down in preparation for being gone for a week or so. Be good, you guys...see ya soon!

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 16 replies

New Moderator

2006-10-01T02:11:30Z

I see we have a new moderator...new Steve replacing old Steve...Steve, why don't you introduce yourself (and tell us about the trade)? Just curious... : )

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 3 replies

Tribe Chart Reading

2006-10-01T01:40:09Z

Here's the tribe chart I ran on my software. I used Aug 28, 2006, 12:00 noon, Washington DC...close enough, in my opinion, to Floyd Va. Washington DC is fitting, as you will see.

ASC: Scorpio
2nd house cusp: Sag, Pluto in Sag retrograde in the second house
3rd house cusp: Capricorn, Chiron and Neptune in Aqu with an Aqu interception
4th house cusp: Pisces, Uranus and North Node in Pisces
5th house cusp: Aries
6th house cusp: Taurus
7th house cusp: Taurus
8th house cusp: Gemini
9th house cusp: Cancer, Saturn and Venus in Leo, Mercury in Virgo
10th house cusp: Virgo, Virgo Sun, Mars in Virgo conjunct South Node
Libra 11th house cusp, Libra Moon
Scorpio 12th house cusp, Jupiter in Scorpio

Anyone interested in following along, draw it up so you can look at it.

Where shall I start? First of all, this chart is spinning in the wrong direction, psychically. Chart flow is important, it should be moving counterclockwise. The Leo interception at the top is about lost leadership and lost love (remember, President Bush is a Leo, I mentioned him having a karmic role in another reading). Saturn is leading...its supposed to be following. So Saturn is blocking the expression of loving authority. Sun, Merc, Venus, Saturn all together there. Saturn is supposed to be providing the safe space and strength for loving authority to speak with the Sun in the lead.

Mars and the South Node. This is a well constructed plan.

Moon in the 11th. Need for connection, contact. Also Insanity.

Jupiter in the 12th in Scorpio. There is no escape...escape (avoidance) is death. Transform or die. Also the death of Spirit. This is also hunting down or being hunted down, to the death. Scorpio Ascendant...death IS the description...is it going to be that or is it going to be transformation?

Pluto in the Second House in Sag, retrograde. This is death of the angels and death of truth. Also, tell the truth or be destroyed by it...this is an old lesson for the group of people here...

There is an Aquarian interception in the third house...this is a change that has never happened (or was lost or denied), but needs to. Something to be learned, lost information. Neptune in Aqu says the change is a lie. Chiron in Aqu shows the need to 'get hurt' or change not ever getting hurt in order to heal or actually change. The interception lies right between them, showing if pride lets go (Leo opp) and admits to what it knows, there is no need to get hurt and the change becomes real. Potential for the mind to heal. Both planets are retrograde, this is an old lesson, people.

Uranus in Pisces retrograde in the 4th. Stop doing the same thing. The ability to cope with or heal insanity and stop doing the same thing, stop making the same mistakes. Heal the mind again. North Node in Pisces close close to the Aries cusp. The lesson is, dealing with the ability to choose anything, being free to do anything at all. For the first time ever. North Node close to the 5th house cusp in Aries (a 9 degree orb) choose war or a new beginning.

The whole splay of planets is a sideways bowl, with a T-square (the top stellium - Leo/Virgo, square Jupiter in Scorpio square Chiron and Neptune in Virgo)...the empty spot of focus from the T-square is Gemini, it keeps wavering back and forth between the 7th and 8th houses. 7th house manifestation = open enemies. 8th house manifestation = secret alliances. Gemini rules the military and "intelligence."

STING OPERATION.

I hesitated to post this, I was thinking I was going to blow it off and give things a chance, see what could happen, trying to stay present with love. But then I've had so many experiences here that have really set my mind to the direction its taking. I've had some private encounters with people here that are just making the same old (bad) choices. Kate you asked why Minja left, maybe this answers some of it. ; ) I offer blessings to anyone who embraces the lesson here. Other than that, thats it for me. I will pursue this lesson in my own space, away from and out of here. Where I can practice making the choice to not choose THIS.

Bye ya'll...

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 0 replies

12th house sun

2006-09-30T21:18:29Z

So I have Gemini Sun in the 12th house (and Jupiter, a little over 6 degrees away from the sun).

Not only do I lack conscious understanding of myself, but I vaguely recognize 2 me's, both elusive. I can remember being 4 or 5 and walking past a mirror in the hallway and seeing myself but it was not myself, the energy seemed older and male, and "I" just grinned at myself, chuckling in a rather conspiratorial way that freaked me out. I've had the same sensation sometimes looking in the mirror, but never as clear as that one instance. Sometimes I do or say things and later feel total guilt or shame that I said it, and I find myself stunned that I could think or feel that way. I tend to define myself through the people in my life (see my crowded 11th house for details) and rely on their input to gauge whether or not the "perfectly reasonable" thought or action I'm contemplating "is" appropriate or ok.

Is this a 12th house thing?

Anyone else have 12th house sun?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 11 replies

Healing of the Ascension Cycle

2006-09-27T20:28:40Z

Speaking on 'letting go,' I was thinking about Suki's posts and I fell into an altered state on Sagittarius and Capricorn...

Ugh...this is so hard to frame up...so many ideas at once! I 'saw' the mechanism of manifested structure, where the wheel is broken...misperception about truth, limits and letting go among the ascended masters is here. I previously mentioned the stages of life on the wheel, from house to house, I was talking about houses 9-12 originally. (I saw it as I was working some issues, I've been working on healing a tear in my brain and brain damage from childhood.)

I saw that the problem 'starts' in the 8th house/Pluto...there is a misjudgement about what to accept or hold on to vs. what to let go of in humanity's collective consciousness. It started in the original manifestation of creation. This also goes back to what I was saying about how the Will is supposed to be separate from God and Spirit is supposed to be our telepathic connection to each other and all living things, not the other way around (you ever notice how everyone is always holding God's Will responsible for everything?) And how Spirit separates itself from everyone by judging itself so superior?

Kundalini is the life force which rises at the age of 40, it starts at the base and rises to the crown chakra. Think also of the chart wheel, the top of the wheel being the top of the head. In the 8th house, we encounter death (as a mistake?) and it blocks us somehow from recognizing what to rightfully let go of. We don't transform like we should. I saw/felt that we are supposed to let go of GOD and trust ourselves, not the other way around (let go of ourselves and trust God). Self = Will by the way. I think this speaks to 'growing up,' and I believe that the highly subjective Will is our inner child. (So the wrong part of God has been in control of inside all of us). I think this is really important information and I was amazed to find it, especially considering what is coming to light here around the anti-christ and Jesus on some of the posts...(wasn't Jesus supposed to be the manifestation of God on Earth?)

What 'we' do (as a species) is let go of ourselves and abandon earth and our bodies (or body's will to live?). When we encounter our judgements in the 8th house about death, we move on to the 9th house at the top of the chart and the crown chakra and leave, abandoning ourselves! The things that get left behind are not dead, or at the very least they are conscious. There is a 'hole' in the top of the human magnetic field (the 9th house which is also truth) just like there is a hole in the earth's magnetic field. Human body is a reflection of earth...we are like a harmonic that holds a vibration together back and forth...it also explains the meaning of true Stewardship and why there are humans that stand out as immortal beings...the missing human element?

Body is a closed system, just like the earth. Spirit has been going straight out the top of our heads and that's where it has been ascending to! NOWHERE. Holding on to the 'right thing' leads to enlightenment (9th house) and then our vital force is supposed to circle back down through the 10th house and inside the body (I felt the gentle curve of the skull directing it back or trying to)...we do this by recognizing right/safe boundaries + limitations and 'reality' (Capricorn/10th House definitions) and embracing our bodies and the earth (earthly reality?). Or that's the way its supposed to work. By the time this energy is back to the ascendant (oh I just noticed the ascend in ascendant) where we've made the 'adjustments' in ourselves through houses 10, 11 and 12., we are ready to start at the beginning again (1st house). Also, the first house is the doorway of connection to other people...I imagined a hand coming out in greeting here.

I hope I explained this right...

"Saturn ascends, choose one or ten. Hang on or be humbled again." from Bellarose's bio page...you said it perfectly. :)

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 11 replies

Poison Pills and Judgement

2006-09-27T13:17:33Z

Speaking of this, my husband was watching a show on the Documentary Channel today, it was called 'Hoffman's Potion.' I came in on the tail end of it and my husband was telling me some of the history of LSD (it was about Abby Hoffman and Timothy Leary)...he said in original trials before it was outlawed by the government, it was found to be like, 85% effective in curing alcoholics. Not only that, it was tested on prison inmates and found to cure another whopping 85% of 'recidivism' (I don't know this word but it describes the CYCLE of repeat offenses and being returned to prison!)

(Don't get the wrong idea guys...I love my 'drugs' too, but I believe all things in moderation or balance!) I KNOW this is a 12/Nep issue!

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 6 replies

keywords

2006-09-27T12:53:11Z

what the Twelfth/12th house governs:

SECLUSION

seclusion, secrets, occult, psychic matters, escapism, drugs, alcohol, sorrow, confinement, imprisonment, prisons, restraint, institutions, secret enemies, hospitals, anywhere that you might be detained for whatever reason, exile, unconscious self, dreams, hidden fears, self-undoing, self-sacrifice, selflessness, things hidden, behind the scenes, subconscious mind, spirituality, faith, possible psychological problems

Any planet that is posited in the twelfth house tends to have its qualities and attributes hidden. The individual may be aware of them deep down, but others rarely get a glimpse of them.

If any planet should conjunct the ascendant, in an orb of about 8 degrees or less, from the twelfth house, it will colour the appearance and personality, albeit in a subtle way.

Prison:
In Mundane Astrology the twelfth house governs hospitals, prisons, institutions, and any place of confinement or detention, charities, secret groups, enemies within

In Medical Astrology, by association of the natural order of the signs, the twelfth house governs the feet
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/12thhouse.html

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 50 replies

Cycles and Basics, 12/Nep Grounding

2006-09-19T13:04:28Z

Since the subject of cycles came up - the karmic cycle, resolution or constructive endings ready to face a new beginning, I wanted to talk about this.

I always notice in charts that cycles show up as repeating patterns or themes. A lot of astrologers get so complicated...I used to too until I learned this trick...it simplifies everything. The technique is called 'tracing.' I'm sure other people have heard of it, but I for one find myself getting overwhelmed by astrology in general (12th house North Node in Gemini, overwhelm + too much info is a 12/Nep thing...opening to 'allness.') and thought I'd pass this along for anyone who doesn't know it.

Tracing is very simple. You start with the basic principle that every corresponding house, sign and planet have the same, interchangeable meaning. For example...Aries, Mars and the first house. Use the same meaning for all applications (beginnings, self, motivation, etc). From any point on the chart, you look to the other corresponding parts to find more information, its that simple. So trying it out...start with any point you want to look at, say your Sun. My Sun is in Cancer in the second house, so I will use that as an example. Say I've looked at it and I want to know more...take the ruler of Cancer which is the Moon and go to the Moon in the chart...what 'more' does it tell you? Since the 4th house is ruled by Cancer, go there to find more information. The applications are endless and interchangeable, but you can go at your own pace and seek information without getting overwhelmed. Keep an open mind and just be on the lookout for more information.

At first it might seem overwhelming because so much information becomes available all at once, but take it at your own pace and give it some practice and you'll get the hang of it. Its also a good exercize in healing judgements, keeping an open mind and chart flow. You will find that there are usually a limitted number of 'themes' - this can vary but for most charts, its 3-5 basic ideas that come up to reinforce the whole picture. You will know it works when you start seeing the coincidences and reinforcements - the same stuff keeps coming up but the information keeps getting more descriptive. This tool for me, was where I experienced a massive jump in my abilities as an astrologer...using it gives you a lot if information but narrows everything down into a more simple picture as you go! I remember the days of puzzling over meaning for every little aspect where things got more confusing and more complicated. I am an Aquarian Moon so I have to analyze everything, and this used to drive me bonkers (my frazzled mind needed a break!).

I will say that while this tool appears to simplify everything by narrowing it down, the information itself can become very complex in a magageable way. I also believe that with experience, a person can use this technique to find nearly every relating idea, it will show up somehow. By relating idea, I mean information from other charts, like progressed charts, solar returns, etc...the information will show up...it takes time and practice doing this but comparing charts using this technique will show you. Its the universes' way of saying all information is available, you've just got to find it. Coincidences are not an accident.

One more thing I realized yesterday...when seeking solutions, start looking for the answer as something already present rather than something new. This speaks to the idea that all the information is there (12/Nep - we are all One) so if we can't figure it out it must be something we missed (retrogrades). I found this from seeing another astrologer's aspects and then looking for my own reflection. Reflections are important too and very Neptunian. I think too that every chart or every analysis you encounter is really information about yourself anyway in terms of seeing your own reflection - we are all One after all!

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 6 replies

Keyword: Resolution

2006-09-18T22:36:06Z

I've been posting alot about forgiveness and I realized that the ultimate point is RESOLUTION. You know, the ending of a cycle? I'm sorting out a lot of my own confusion between Pluto and Neptune, comparing death and transformation of the 8th house to the 12th house issues of 'letting go.' I've seen several people with 12/8 issues already... (besides just me!)

All week I was away, thinking about this forum. I had some pretty triggering realizations too. I was noticing that 12/Nep issues are where we come in to this life with the potential of reaching mastery (the end of a cycle) and so often its where we completely miss the boat. Let me give some examples...(thinking)...judgement is one. !2/Nep is where we are asked to be non judgemental, but I suggest its the place where we are in fact, the most judgemental or where we find our deepest lessons to heal around judging others (or being judged?). Ego...where we are asked to heal or transcend our ego in a sense but in fact don't, etc. I came up with a whole bunch of 'em...

I remembered some reading from the past describing retrogrades...I'd have to say that the 12th house/Neptune RULES retrogrades. Retrogrades are places where we've had these lessons before and failed, where we didn't get it and are given another chance in this life to get it right. (So think of 12/Nep as retrogrades, even if they aren't.) Speaking of resolution.

I don't want you guys to get the wrong idea. I do tend to polarize into black and white, but my ultimate point is balance and seeing all sides (I mentioned my Libra Mars). I'm not saying its right to go around being nasty and not forgiving people. Or putting up walls for no good reason. I AM saying there are two sides to all issues! I'm saying that 12/Nep people are probably the most lacking in balance (looking at my own lessons), because so much of life is all or nothing. Especially if you let someone (yes, even ascended masters) tell you how you should be, without taking all things into account on a personal level. I think most blanket statements are meant for the masses in general and don't really apply when dealing with individuals and subjectivity. I mean, the masses are just a lot of individuals, right?

Speaking of forgiveness. I was thinking that it all depends on your definition of the word. For me, forgiveness means resolution. In most cases, its about finding yourself at a juncture in a relationship, where the relationship is given a chance to evolve or die. In general, if I forgive someone, I am assuming that the other person is still going to be a part of my life. I'm a Piscean Saturn person, so my lessons in this life are about putting up walls in an effort to heal...coming from a past of being too 'forgiving' and having no personal boundaries. This whole issue is a difficult one for me, I don't take any of this lightly. For example...my father. I don't have contact with him now, we don't speak to each other. I am labelled as unforgiving. Its not that I don't want to, I love him and miss him and have cried a river over our issues. I can't tell you the heartbreak I've experienced here, in my desire to see the relationship heal. But he's so toxic to me that I can't have him in my life (a perpetrator who isn't or isn't capable of being sorry) and expect to survive (my Saturn opposition to Pluto/Uranus conjunction speaks to the danger of this relationship for me...Saturn being father and Pluto/Uranus being violence and death). I have had to (rightfully - according to the lessons in my chart) put up walls for my own protection and I don't know if I will ever be able to safely take them down. (Not all walls are 'bad' you know, walls = structures, = safe, nurturing spaces to live in). I forgive him in that I understand he was abused as a child and is so rooted in his ways he can't change now, but I'm not going to let him back into my life if things never change. This is the best I can do, if I am to take responsibility for my own self care...but some here might label me conditional.

I was thinking about it another way too. If I am doing something to someone I love and it hurts them (where I find myself in the role of perpetrator), I want to know about it so I can have the opportunity to change. So I can eventually be trusted and forgiven. So the relationship can evolve. I am willing to take responsibility for myself, I don't ask what I am not willing to give. Speaking of 'acceptance' - if we have to accept it ALL, why can't we do so by looking at the two sides vs. just taking it all in unconditionally?

Isn't the ultimate point, CHANGE? (Did I mention my Aquarian Moon?) Isn't that what resolution is all about? Ending a cycle, learning our lessons so we can move on to the next thing...so we don't have to do this one again. I'm not interested in forgiving if what that really means is paying lip service to the judgement of being 'spiritual' and going along with the status quo where nothing really changes or heals.

I think so many 12/Nep issues are where we have too much input or overwhelm. Where we have problems with self care. I was thinking of the metaphor of the sponge and I thought of the fish...what if, instead of being sponges, we are supposed to be fish, swimming around in the vast ocean of life, learning discernment (conditionality and what I would call healed judgement) so we can make good choices and negotiate life instead of just being carried away by the next tide?

I mean, aren't so many spiritual dictates from the ascended masters, just judgements anyway?

I think resolution is THE keyword for this house. To me, that means having your lessons and figuring out what actually works, what makes real sense in a person's life..learning and doing what is needed in order to move forward. Narrowing things down a bit after taking in so much...sorting what works from what doesn't. Change, where its appropriate (and change implies conditionality and non-acceptance of that which resists change). Isn't all of this part of resolution for the purpose of beginning a new cycle?

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 42 replies

12th House = No Apologies

2006-09-12T00:04:53Z

So, maybe you've noticed the 2nd name change of the grand opening day of this tribe, as well as the revised description and new RULES that appear below it in the header. If you feel as if you've been suckered in here under false pretenses, please be a big 12th Houser and either get over it or leave, but don't expect any apologies. After ALL, letting go is the core lesson of the 12th House.

FTR, I borrowed the latest subtitle from the name of a friend's farm. The idea dawned on me when I saw her at a pot luck supper this evening. I don't know her reason for choosing that name, but she agreed with me that it was a fitting subtitle for a 12th House tribe. It would be entirely antithetical to apologize in the 12th and any planet that happens to be residing in the 1st house is highly unlikely to notice that one was never offered.

So, here we are and I sincerely hope that I haven't offended anyone, but if I did, they can be sure that I won't apologise.

posted in 12th House (No Apologies) - 27 replies