Knoxville, Tenn. police has released a statement that a letter in the car of church shooter Jim D. Adkisson reveals that he targeted the congregation due to its liberal views on civil liberties and women’s and gay rights. Adkisson killed two people at the Tennessee Valley Unitarian Universalist Church in the middle of a children’s performance.
Chief Sterling Owen IV said Adkisson had a “stated hatred of the liberal movement.” He is now charged with first-degree murder. Among the complaints against the church was its founding of a chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union.
The children were performing “Annie” when Adkisson decided to kill people in the name of the true faith. According to reports, Greg McKendry, a 60-year-old usher and board member at the church, blocked the killer and was his first victim, click here.
It is simply astonishing that even a demented killer would think that God would want him to mow down Christians who are not sufficiently conservative, including children. Some reports indicate that he had problems with Christians in general, click here. It takes a lot of hate to walk into a scene of children performing in a religious sanctuary and turn it into a place of massacre. Of course, as with the Virginia Tech massacre, the story also reveals the best of humanity in those adults who confronted his man at the risk of their own lives. Had he not been restrained by church members, the death toll might have been much greater.
Ironically, the ACLU and these church members would likely be the first to defend Adkisson’s rights as he faces a potential death penalty for his alleged crimes.
full story:
jonathanturley.org/2008/07/...al-views/
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Mon, July 28, 2008 - 7:40 PM<in the name of the true faith>
Yes very definatly the warped and twisted CHRISTIAN faith that it has become!
Senseless KILLINGS by "Good Christians" so Bigoted and Blinded by their own Faith(Christianity) that they kill their own worshippers over their own set of "moral agenda's".
It's as DISGUSTING! as the Christian Faith itself has become!
What IS YOUR First Commandment...CHRISTIANS?
<THOU SHALT NOT KILL>!! -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Mon, July 28, 2008 - 8:01 PMJake
<Yes very definatly the warped and twisted CHRISTIAN faith that it has become!Senseless KILLINGS by "Good Christians" so Bigoted and Blinded by their own Faith(Christianity)... >
Are you so angry that you can't recognize any perversion?
This murderer is not a good Christian, and neither is his faith. At least call it "Christianoid". -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Mon, July 28, 2008 - 8:09 PM<Are you so angry that you can't recognize any perversion?
This murderer is not a good Christian, and neither is his faith. At least call it "Christianoid">
Once again, there is a blue moon in the sky, pigs have sprouted wings, and they are passing out parkas in hell. I have to agree with Peter on this one. However I cannot even call this guy a Christianoid; Christianoid is reserved for the relatively sane.
This guy is a god damned nut.
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Sat, August 2, 2008 - 10:01 AM>>>What IS YOUR First Commandment...CHRISTIANS?
<THOU SHALT NOT KILL>!!<<<
Actually, Jake, that one is the Sixth Commandment, not the first. The First Commandment is held to be the one that says, "Thou shalt have no other gods before me." The laws were said to have been given on two stone tablets, usually believed to be five commandments on each tablet. There has been a bit of controversy down through the ages as to exactly how many laws there were (depending on how one is to interpret clauses that might be intended either as separate laws or as commentary on the commandment immediately preceding. There have been controversies over which clauses belong to which commandment or to which tablet. Nonetheless, there is a broad consensus that the Commandments are to be organized in this manner::
Commandments:
First Tablet:
1. No other Gods
2. No graven images.
3. Not taking God's name in vain.
4. Honor the Sabbath.
5. Honor parents.
Second Tablet:
6. Do not kill.
7. No fooling around (aka adultery).
8. Do not steal.
9. Do not bear false witness
10. Do not covet.
This is the traditional configuration of these ten divine laws. They are astonishingly simple, but they cover most of what we think of as the duties to God and to our fellow man. For Christians, these are now superseded by a higher, spiritual law, which includes the Ten, but extends far beyond them. The spiritual law is supposed to proceed from a pure and loving heart which is to be our guide in place of written laws. It is shameful that so many self-styled "Christians" these days seem unable to feel any affection whatever for those they find "unworthy". They fail to reaize that they prove themselves unworthy by the way they judge and condemn others--even though they were told to love even their enemies. This is why I prefer to refer to them as "Christianoids" as they are in direct opposition to the laws they claim to follow, both the written law and the spiritual.
In any case, your essentail point is quite just and I thank you for your refreshing rant on the subject. The devil is in the details, they say, and I can't easily resist playing "Devil's Advocate" at times; it is originally a holy function after all, offered as a service to God and to his saints.
With love under will,
Bob, Adastra,
The Wizzard of Jacksonville -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Tue, August 5, 2008 - 4:17 PMOf course there are two (or more) different versions of the big 10 - which makes you wonder - which list is the one that we are supposed to "post in every school and public office"......
Abbreviated Protestant Ten Commandments:
You shall have no other gods but me.
You shall not make unto you any graven images
You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain
You shall remember the Sabbath and keep it holy
Honor your mother and father
You shall not murder
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness
You shall not covet anything that belongs to your neighbor
Abbreviated Catholic Ten Commandments:
I, the Lord, am your God. You shall not have other gods besides me.
You shall not take the name of the Lord God in vain
Remember to keep holy the Lord's Day
Honor your father and your mother
You shall not kill
You shall not commit adultery
You shall not steal
You shall not bear false witness
You shall not covet your neighbor's wife
You shall not covet your neighbor's goods -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Tue, August 5, 2008 - 4:21 PMAnd remember the unwritten 11th
Thou shalt not get caught.
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Tue, July 29, 2008 - 4:51 AMSeem to me another indication that we need to make religion obsolete. -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Tue, July 29, 2008 - 3:56 PM
This is yet another painful result of psychotic, demented, over-the-top Xtian brainwashing. :)(: The church never takes into account what their hate-filled, scapegoating, hypocritical words can cause to happen, especially amongst those people who are mentally ill or even on the borderline. These losers raise their hands to god and their voices tremble in faux disgust, as they make endless fun of gays, women's rights, abortion rights, gun laws, immigrants, evolution, et.al., Of course their despicable behaviour will trigger revengeful impulses amongst the unbalanced and this particular man, KILLING FOR GOD to eradicate liberals and gays, reflects the psychotic, utterly useless insanity of the bogus send-me-your-money charismatic evangelical movement. -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Tue, July 29, 2008 - 4:23 PM<This is yet another painful result of psychotic, demented, over-the-top Xtian brainwashing. :)(: The church never takes into account what their hate-filled, scapegoating, hypocritical words can cause to happen, especially amongst those people who are mentally ill or even on the borderline. These losers raise their hands to god and their voices tremble in faux disgust, as they make endless fun of gays, women's rights, abortion rights, gun laws, immigrants, evolution, et.al., Of course their despicable behaviour will trigger revengeful impulses amongst the unbalanced and this particular man, KILLING FOR GOD to eradicate liberals and gays, reflects the psychotic, utterly useless insanity of the bogus send-me-your-money charismatic evangelical movement.>
Sorry, we cannot put this at the door of religion. At this point religion is only serving as a scapegoat. The guy who pulled the trigger is a god damned nut, and even if he were in the Soviet Union where religion was banned and outlawed, he would have been equally as nuts. First of all, where else in all the world are you going to find a country where lunatics have free access of firearms? Only in America. The fact that we still do not have a sensible gun policy in this country is more at fault than religion. Still, if guns were outlawed that nudnick would do it with an icepick.
It's also easier to pick on religion for this than to face the fact that the lack of national health and the deterioration of the social safety net leaves nut cases like that nowhere else to go except to churches comprised of people nearly as crazy as he is.
This is not religions fault, this is America's fault for falling for the Reagan idiocy and the Libertarian absurdities which place lower taxes over the health and well being of our citizens. -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Tue, July 29, 2008 - 7:20 PMPeter with all due respect,there ARE a few(damned few!) Good Christians among your flock of obediant subserviant sheep,but to say this lunatic shooter was a "Christianoid" and not a "Christian" is false!
The Crusades were one of the BLOODIEST Periods in World History,and these killings WERE IN FACT done "In the name of Christ" are you going to say that NONE of these Tens of THOUSANDS of "Christian Crusaders" were actually Christians?
It is time for YOUR Christian Faith to accept responsibility for all the MASS KILLING it has done over Millenia and stop assuming that "Ohh but they were not Christians" becuase they WERE.
As I have stated *Most* Christians do NOT abide by the Holy Bible becuase IF they did,there would not be a SINGLE Killing attached to a Christian person in this entire World.
"Thou Shalt NOT KILL"
Obviously,Christians do not abide by The Ten Commandments(for starters!) -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Wed, July 30, 2008 - 3:29 PM
<<<<<Sorry, we cannot put this at the door of religion. At this point religion is only serving as a scapegoat. The guy who pulled the trigger is a god damned nut, and even if he were in the Soviet Union where religion was banned and outlawed, he would have been equally as nuts. First of all, where else in all the world are you going to find a country where lunatics have free access of firearms? Only in America. The fact that we still do not have a sensible gun policy in this country is more at fault than religion. Still, if guns were outlawed that nudnick would do it with an icepick. >>>>>
There's not a shred of doubt that this is correctly placed at the door of religion. The evangelical charismatic churches across America are bereft of any ideas, programs or skills that can be useful to society. They load their sermons with fear and loathing of others who are different and deserve their religious scorn and derision. It's called scapegoating. Aafter a period of time, those more fragil in their mental outlook and balance, obtain what they perceive as PERMISSION to act-out in the name of God, in the hope that they might possibly achieve recognition from their pastor, the angels at the gates of heaven and of course God.
<<<<<It's also easier to pick on religion for this than to face the fact that the lack of national health and the deterioration of the social safety net leaves nut cases like that nowhere else to go except to churches comprised of people nearly as crazy as he is. >>>>>
Maybe this requires a deeply pragmatic thinker to recognize the hypocrisy here, but the social conservatives have been gutting the social safety net since Reagan called "Government the problem." So, if a mentally ill social conservative takes his ammo and semi-automatic rifle to a liberal church (in this case a Unitarian Universalist Church,) fires randomly at the members, during a children's play no less, shouting epithets and slogans taken directly from the mouth of Limbaugh, Hannity, O'Reily, Hagee, Wright, et.al., then u have to wonder why this guy and others like him are not mad with their own conservative movement for cutting/gutting their social safety net. The hypocrisy of the evangelical charismatic movement and their single minded pursuit of gays, abortion and guns has rendered them impotent to even their own members.
Thus we have what's probably a mentally ill man, shooting at "liberals and gay lovers" because his conservative charismatic church has literally poisoned his obviously fragile mind with hatred. I don't view this as "picking on religion" as much as it's clarifying the absurdity of the evangelical charismatic movement's false premises, lies and hypocrisy, that we have discussed here in great detail! :)(:
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Wed, July 30, 2008 - 4:15 PM<There's not a shred of doubt that this is correctly placed at the door of religion. The evangelical charismatic churches across America are bereft of any ideas, programs or skills that can be useful to society. They load their sermons with fear and loathing of others who are different and deserve their religious scorn and derision. It's called scapegoating. Aafter a period of time, those more fragil in their mental outlook and balance, obtain what they perceive as PERMISSION to act-out in the name of God, in the hope that they might possibly achieve recognition from their pastor, the angels at the gates of heaven and of course God.>
Then why isn't this an everyday occurrence? Why aren't all the church members picking up shooting irons and killing little kids in the Unitarian Churches? Sorry, back in the 60s, the guy could have been a Maoist and the kids at a Rotary Club function. My best friend's daughter was hurt when some nut from the Aryan nation started shooting kids in a Jewish day care center. He said it was a wake-up call to the dangers of Judaism. Madness has no reason but often it has seeks an excuse. Murders have been done for political ideology as well as race or religion. A voice in the head is a voice in the head regardless of whether the crazy people name them Jesus or Mao.
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Wed, July 30, 2008 - 5:18 PMThe wackjob was triggered by a combination of dominionist/fundie religion and AM talk radio.
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Thu, July 31, 2008 - 11:45 AMReligion is a convenient mechanism for people completely unable to claim responsibility for their own actions, this much is very true. Their lives suck because it's someone else's fault, and God forgives all of our actions so long as we repent. So go ahead and shoot away...just be sorry and ask forgiveness later. Unless it was the right thing to do. Then God knows the truth of your actions.
Or something like that.
What makes religion so convenient is that it is completely impossible to dispute deeply held beliefs, regardless of how fucked-up they may be (remember the Muslim guy who killed his daughter because she fell in love with a Brit?). I agree with Bill that a nutjob is a nutjob and so say we all, regardless of who's talking in his head - Christ, Ghandi, or the Easter Bunny. In that sense, religion is not wholly responsible for creating this individual. Religion *did*, however, provide his excuse because no one could irrefutably disprove what he says - which is true of any philosophical argument.
But I'm confused over the relationship between "liberals" and Christianity. Maybe I didn't read the article thoroughly enough, but I get the sense that this guy killed people because he felt they weren't "Christian" enough - does that pretty much sum it up? My understanding is that the Unitarian Church is remarkably tolerant toward other faiths, homosexuality and abortion, and this guy thought he could shoot some sense into them. Is he saying, then, that intolerance is a pillar upon which Christianity should rest? And - pardon my ignorance, but I try to pretend that people such as Rush Limbaugh and Mike Savage don't exist - but is that the message they convey as well?
I'm probably having a "duh, Pam!" moment but I wanted to clear it up before I try out my new Ninja skills on this homie. -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Thu, July 31, 2008 - 5:36 PM<But I'm confused over the relationship between "liberals" and Christianity. Maybe I didn't read the article thoroughly enough, but I get the sense that this guy killed people because he felt they weren't "Christian" enough - does that pretty much sum it up? My understanding is that the Unitarian Church is remarkably tolerant toward other faiths, homosexuality and abortion, and this guy thought he could shoot some sense into them. Is he saying, then, that intolerance is a pillar upon which Christianity should rest? And - pardon my ignorance, but I try to pretend that people such as Rush Limbaugh and Mike Savage don't exist - but is that the message they convey as well?>
Pam, take it from somebody who was raised by two utterly insane people, (and I have the paperwork to prove it.) there is absolutely no correspondence between an insane person and religion. There is also no correspondence between insanity and politics. Save your ninja skills for Savage; he is mentally competent. Crazy is as crazy does. If it wasn't Falwell and Limbaugh, it could have been Hitler or Stalin. -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Thu, July 31, 2008 - 8:51 PM<and I have the paperwork to prove it>
That's Priceless Bill..and why we love you! You are one of the few on here who has been painfully honest in your responses(like I usually am). Iv'e learned a lot from you over the years!
In my opinion.Christianity TEACHES Intolerance,wich is why I dropped out of the Faith by age 12. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Thu, July 31, 2008 - 9:05 PM<In my opinion.Christianity TEACHES Intolerance,wich is why I dropped out of the Faith by age 12.>
I'm not arguing the fact that Christianity teaches intolerance; I am arguing that Christianity does not teach insanity. You don't need religion to freak out and start hurting people. On the subject of insanity, my father once snapped out and attacked a perfectly harmless accountant out of a paranoid freak out. Right now my wife is reading a news article aloud about a guy who freaked out on a greyhound bus and stabbed somebody to death for no reason.
You can't blame religion for insanity. Insanity is a medical condition. -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Sat, August 2, 2008 - 10:27 AM>>>You can't blame religion for insanity. Insanity is a medical condition.<<<
I find myself precariously poised on both sides of this argument. Religion does not cause insanity, true, that is a medical matter. But certain types of religion certainly cater to insanity, support its extremes and encourage lunatics (directly or indirectly) to act out their madnesses. In this respect, certain types of religion are dangerous and bear a heavy burden of responsibility for the atrocities committed in their name. The fact that madmen can find other excuses for their delusions is irrelevant to the fact that religion provides such a convenient excuse and lends itself so readily to the purpose.
This is why I came up with the term "Christianoid", because it undermines the perceived legitimacy of those religious groups that support atrocities in the name of God. When they preach hatred, they betray the claims of religious purity and introduce a poison into the highest dreams of mankind. If a murderer slips arsenic into your soup. he is guilty. But is there not an equal guilt to be shared by a so-called "chef" who teaches that arsenic is the perfect flavoring for any kind of soup? Can we not try to distinguish between Emeril or Julia Child and these criminal cooks? Should we not rather deny them any right to the name of "chef", "cook" or "gourmet?" That is what I am trying to do--to point out that those who corrupt the truths of the culinary arts have no right to such titles and that those who corrupt the belief in benevolence and love (whether we call it "God" or something else) have no right to be considered "holy" or "moral". I believe they should be required to give account of their malevolence before the bar of public opinion, if not in a court of law.
They take the name of God in vain and constantly violate the principles to which they claim to be committed. And when people are led to believe that this is what Christianity is all about, that is much the same as saying that counterfeiters prove all currency is nothing but a scam. Come on. folks, if there were not something of value there to begin with, why would anyone bother to fake it?
With love under will,
Bob, Adastra,
The Wizzard of Jacksonville -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Sat, August 2, 2008 - 11:14 AM<They take the name of God in vain and constantly violate the principles to which they claim to be committed. And when people are led to believe that this is what Christianity is all about, that is much the same as saying that counterfeiters prove all currency is nothing but a scam. Come on. folks, if there were not something of value there to begin with, why would anyone bother to fake it?>
Bob,
I think we are talking apples and oranges here. I really don't think that anyone here really understands screaming yellow and purple polka-dotted insanity. There is a distinct difference between being a Christianoid and being so sick that he shoots up a stage full of children. You and I are the extreme ends of the same generation. We both remember when the Southern Baptists were a moderate church, and the A of G was the church of choice of the trailer-trash crowds. We both remember the social damage that occurred when Reagan closed down all the mental hospitals. Haven't you made the correlation between the rise in attendance of the A of G churches and the devolution of the Southern Baptist churches and the utter lack of mental health care? -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Sat, August 2, 2008 - 12:21 PMBill,
<Haven't you made the correlation between the rise in attendance of the A of G churches and the devolution of the Southern Baptist churches and the utter lack of mental health care?>
Lack of mental health care, health care in general, and economic problems are driving to people into all kinds of churches. Maybe because an offering is cheaper than insurance. The faith-based initiatives promoted the idea that people can get material help from churches, but the ability to obtain government funding doesn't mean the church staff is qualified to help (even spiritually). The current economic crisis is fueling get rich religion, as your other thread points out.
I see the correlation, I just don't see the solution, yet. -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Sat, August 2, 2008 - 4:10 PM<neither jesus or anything in the new testament teaches disciples to harm other's>
Thats correct Peter and why is this so?
Becuase Jesus,The Old and New Testament,Moses,Noah and everything "else" contained within the Holy Bible's pages is a "Fable", a very nicely written "Tale of a Christian God,and of the fabled tale of a special Birth (Jesus) long ago(The NEW Testament)". A Fable cannot teach or guide,it can only immerse the reader into it's Fantasy World.
Alice In Wonderland is also a very well written Fable about a Little Girl that fell into a Rabbit Hole,and into a Fantasy World.
The only difference between her Fantasy World and the Fantasy World that is The Holy Bible is,BOTH are written tales of fantasy,but Alice's Wonderland never made it to a Religious Status,It could have,but didn't,why? becuase Alice In Wonderland was written by a Children's Author and the Holy Bible was written by "Religious Scholar's".
The Fantasy is the same,only the Religious Scholars status of the Authors made The Holy Bible into a Faith.
We can read Biblical Text till our eyes go blind,but just as we read Alice In Wonderland,BOTH are Fables and not real so The Text in your Bible means nothing except to believers in it's Fantasy,just as there are believer's in the Wonderland that was Alice's Rabbit Hole. -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Mon, August 4, 2008 - 8:39 PM>>>A Fable cannot teach or guide,it can only immerse the reader into it's Fantasy World.<<<
Say, didn't that old Greek guy who called himself "Aesop" get quite a lot of mileage out of fables as teaching aids? Didn't my buddy Yeshua do most of his teaching in parables, very similar to fables. What if we were to take all the religious beliefs of the world and consider them as teaching fables and instructive parables? It seems to me that would remove most of their capacity for harm while preserving whatever can be found in them of value to mankind.
There's nothing that says religious precepts have to be taken a rock-solid, iron-clad Truth, except the gullibilities of the religious. I have no quarrel with anyone who holds religion to be nothing more than a set of encouraging, hopeful ideas that remain a pleasing fantasy. Much of the world's great literature is little more than a pleasing fantasy.
"Alice in Wonderland?" "The Wizard of Oz? " "The Thousand Nights and a Night?" "Idylls of the King?" "The Song of Solomon?" "Tales of Mother Goose?" Hamlet, Prince of Denmark?" When we really get down to it, it's all nothing but words on paper, right? The problem is with those who can't tell the difference between pretty words on paper and cold, hard facts of life. This is a mental disease that society should treat, not coddle.
For myself, as a lifelong reader with a heavy print addiction, I will not give up the pretty words on paper to satisfy someone else's idea of what should be important to me. I know the difference between fiction and non-fiction, and I've seen enough of both to have learned that the line between them is seldom as sharply defined and unyielding as we tend to think, nor is it found where we usually expect it to be located.
To quote the words of a great Southern author, "Man alone of all the animals plays the ape to his own dreams." And I offer a very sincere congratulation to anyone who can supply a source for that quote>
Thank you.
With love under will,
Bob, Adastra,
The Wizzard of Jacksonville -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Tue, August 5, 2008 - 2:08 PMI love to read Adastra
I have been reading complex material like Encyclopedia's and Adult Novels since age FIVE!(Very advanced Reader!)
But unlike weaker persons such as most Christians,I know how to seperate Fantasy Reading from Reality Reading.
What happens when you are five years old and you read in Encyclopedia Britanica that "The Earth is Billions of years old,and has likely evolved from the Big Bang Theory with Geologist's PROVIDING PROOF of such a Theory...and then you crack open your Family Bible and you read such ridiculous things such as:
The Stars are a DOME over the Earth...and...
God Created the Heavens and The Earth in six days and on the 7th he rested...
Even as a FIVE YR OLD I was able to discern what was a "Fantasy"..this ridiculous notion that a single sentient being whom not a single person has EVER even seen created it ALL in six days!....or perhaps Geologists were "more on the money" with their Theory of how the Planet Evolved over Billions of years,especially since even as a five yr old,I could go down to our local Quarries and SEE these layers of Rock formed over a lot more TIME than just six ridiculous days!. I chose the Scientific rather than the "Fanciful" version of how the Planet I live on was created.
The Bible is a Fantasy World created to support a Faith Belief and nothing more Just like any "Fantasy Novel" ever written.
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Sat, August 2, 2008 - 5:35 PM<I see the correlation, I just don't see the solution, yet.>
Does this imply that (assuming it were possible) that you would take responsibility in implementing the solution, or (if not possible) you would offer moral support to those who do implement the solution?
(I sit here with my breath held, my eyes closed tight, and wishing with all my might.) -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Sat, August 2, 2008 - 10:05 PMBill,
<Does this imply that (assuming it were possible) that you would take responsibility in implementing the solution, or (if not possible) you would offer moral support to those who do implement the solution?>
Yes. As long as it's a legitimate solution and not another final solution. -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Mon, August 4, 2008 - 12:28 PM<Yes. As long as it's a legitimate solution and not another final solution.>
Thank you, Peter. You have no idea what that answer means to me.
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Thu, July 31, 2008 - 10:17 PMPam,
<Religion is a convenient mechanism for people completely unable to claim responsibility for their own actions, this much is very true.>
Do you believe it's also true that people use "genetic tendencies" and "chemical imbalances" as convenient mechanisms because they are completely unable to claim responsibility for their own actions?
The Bible teaches that one reaps what one sows, and that there is a Day of Judment when one must account for what one has said and done. Religion may teach otherwise. Clearly, many don't believe the Bible is true.
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Sat, August 2, 2008 - 6:20 AMPeter
Both Pam and Bill are correct
Religion Is in fact a "convienient mechanism" not only for people to not claim responsibility for their own actions,but to also foster an aura of hate toward persons NOT of their specific Faith belief,or persons within their own Faith who are "not like they are".
I know of many "Gay People" who DO consider themselves Christians however,there is so much undercurrent of "being a Homosexual is WRONG" fostered and taught BY the Christian Faith that one who is a Homosexual(like..Me!) would find your Faith(Christianity) not only unsuitable but also intolerable as a Faith Belief.
Would YOU Peter,as a Black Man,be so close to your Jesus and a committed believer of your Faith,if your Faith pushed upon you,that simply by being Born of the Negroid Race wich made your skin color darker than that of a Caucasian (white)Man,you were "sick,inferior and unclean"? I think NOT!
To answer Bill's statement:
Of course believing in a Faith doesn't make one Insane and more apt to commit crimes and kill people but it DOES in fact teach intolerance for those who "may be different than you are" and does make people act criminally. This Tennesee Shooter entered that Church and shot those worshippers watching a children's play in progress becuase that particular Christian Chrch fostered a "different view" of Christianity than his own Church did,it's views were "too liberal" and this shooter believed as he was TAUGHT BY his Faith,that these People were wrong for their Beliefs.
Since the Crusades,Christianity has taught Intolerance wich has stained the Faith's hands with BLOOD!
Religious Faith teaches people to be "one and the same" (same view/same tolerance)and when this teaching crosses into people who may be a "little different" that's where it makes believer's of that Faith do harm to others. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Sat, August 2, 2008 - 10:04 AM<To answer Bill's statement:
Of course believing in a Faith doesn't make one Insane and more apt to commit crimes and kill people but it DOES in fact teach intolerance for those who "may be different than you are" and does make people act criminally. This Tennesee Shooter entered that Church and shot those worshippers watching a children's play in progress becuase that particular Christian Chrch fostered a "different view" of Christianity than his own Church did,it's views were "too liberal" and this shooter believed as he was TAUGHT BY his Faith,that these People were wrong for their Beliefs.
Since the Crusades,Christianity has taught Intolerance wich has stained the Faith's hands with BLOOD!
Religious Faith teaches people to be "one and the same" (same view/same tolerance)and when this teaching crosses into people who may be a "little different" that's where it makes believer's of that Faith do harm to others.>
Jake,
There are many reasons that a person would be attracted to an intolerant and bigoted Christianity. A big one is self hatred. As an advocate for people who suffered rape and molestation during childhood, my wife has been in contact with many women who spent years as members of Christianoid churches and spent years witnessing against the evils of abortion, feminism, and homosexuality. Once they started actual therapy, they looked back at those years and said, "what was I thinking?" For many people the Christianoid churches are places where people can "act out" their neurosis and traumas in an atmosphere where they are not going to be encouraged to actually get help and face the traumas that drove them into these churches in the first place.
Since most people who go to the Christianoid churches are fooling themselves, it makes them vulnerable to every con-artist, huckster, and liar who comes down the pike. This is why the PR companies chose specific churches to be their propaganda mills. You might have noticed that the shooter did not come out of a Methodist Church. He came out of a denomination that actually did preach that African-Americans were inferior and that black skin was the "Mark of Cain". Believe it or not, back in the 70s, I actually knew African-Americans who belonged to these churches as they suffered the same self-esteem issues as the women I was talking about.
Belief in religion is not in itself a sign of mental illness. If it were, you would find Unitarians and neopagans shooting up A of G churches. In fact I have been watching the Ron Paul campaign with growing horror as I watch the Libertarian pundits organize people with issues stemming from religion abuse and authority issues into voting for the exact same candidates as the Christianoids. Quite often people who are disillusioned with the hypocrisy of the Christianoid preachers simply goose step from the fascist Christianoids to the Libertarian Fascists.
To sum it up, the religion was not responsible for the shooter's actions, his actions were responsible for his religion.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Sat, August 2, 2008 - 12:00 PMJake,
<Would YOU Peter,as a Black Man,be so close to your Jesus and a committed believer of your Faith,if your Faith pushed upon you,that simply by being Born of the Negroid Race wich made your skin color darker than that of a Caucasian (white)Man,you were "sick,inferior and unclean"? I think NOT!>
I think I've already said, that's why I'm not a Mormon. I have also said that I understand why you are not a Christian.
I don't expect most people to follow the teachings of Jesus. I'm just saying that (even if you don't believe Jesus was a real person) neither Jesus, nor anything in the New Testament, teaches disciples to do harm to others.
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Wed, July 30, 2008 - 5:38 PMJake,
It is written that people who do good works in the name of Jesus, yet commit iniquity will be rejected by Jesus. We agree that tens of thousands of people have killed in the name of Jesus. While those who do say may be very religious, I do not consider them Christians. I could be wrong.
I can agree that most who call themselves Christians do not follow the Bible, and there are few "good Christians". -
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Re: Tennesse shooter kills because of church's liberal views
Wed, July 30, 2008 - 6:03 PMPeter
anyone can "say" I do THIS in the name OF:
Jesus...
Allah...
Satan....
The Tooth Fairy...
Santa Claus....
The DungeonMaster...
Just becuase you use a Religious Diety as the source of you doing something IN THE NAME OF doesn't make it real or any more "acceptable".
Christianity is as Mythical a Faith as The Greek's Belief in Mythical Gods,without PROOF,Christianity is only based on a "Book of Verse".
Other well know Books Of Verse:
Aesops Fables
Mother Goose Ryhms
The Cat In The Hat
Green Eggs and Ham
Becuase Biblical Text is "Biblical" doesn't make it any less a Fantasy than the Verse's written in any of the abovementioned "Books of Verse".
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