What do we really need to do

topic posted Wed, December 21, 2005 - 10:35 PM by  Jay
Folks, I've seen a lot of responses to the new TOU. However, very few people seem to be addressing the issue correctly.

Formost, remember that these decisions are being made by people trying to react logically to problems before them.

Remind them that you understand what they are trying to do, but that their actions are contradictory to the member's wishes.

Address them as individuals making a decision.

Address them, directly as opposed to just putting up a pic or talking about the situation.

I suggest you touch base with this person.
people.tribe.net/jan
This is Jan Gullett, the CEO of tribe.

And this person.
people.tribe.net/wade
This is Wade Lagrone, who had to make the decision. We've been writing back and forth to each other respectfully for some time.

Fax letters in. Don't harass. Don't be mean. Just simply say you feel the new rules are uncalled for and unjust. The fax number is (415) 861-5989.

Call a human being and address the issue. Their media contact is Steve Honig at (310) 246-1801.

Take the right risks. I may lose my tribe account for this. I hold nothing against tribe, Jan, Wade, or Steve if they terminate my account. It's not going to hurt anything I've done, and I can deal. However, talking to these people and being involved in the process is much more effective than just sticking a pic on your tribe that says "censored" or worse.

Finally, take what you've learned here and apply it. How many of you folks have ever called a congressperson? The senate just passed an extension to the patriot act. How many of you called to protest that? How many letters have you written to congress or the president? Maybe if you all of you had, we wouldn't be in this position to begin with.

Sincerely,

Jay Moyes
www.jaymoyes.com
posted by:
Jay
offline Jay
Los Angeles
  • Re: What do we really need to do

    Thu, December 22, 2005 - 3:15 PM
    Thanks Jay...Direct action is what we need.

    Please remember, though, Jan and Wade are REACTING to the possinilities of 2257. The law was purposely vauge, IMO, to cause panic as we have seen here in the last few weeks.

    Jay is right. Direct action must be taken. But remember, as I have said before, this is not truly TRIBES fault, it is the fact that a group of erotophobes have taken over the nation and we have to take it back.

    Let me ask one thing, to all who are angry: Where were YOU November 2, 2004?

    polybi
    • Re: What do we really need to do

      Thu, December 22, 2005 - 3:19 PM
      Actually, I already posted some suggestions here:
      tribes.tribe.net/2257/thre...05d4a04e9d
      • Re: What do we really need to do

        Fri, December 23, 2005 - 10:56 AM
        Where was I November 2nd 2004, well I was VOTING!!!!!!!!!! in as system that is set up to fail me, just as tribe and our goverment have failed all of us, ask yourself somthing, why is it that the very people who are supposed to be defending our freedom our the same people trying to take it away???? The fact that we even have to fight our own goverment is just sad, and I do feel that tribe is at fault, the fact that tribe was once a small website that some guys started and now they have a CEO is just wrong, and this is one of the great problems with this country, corporations, all these corporations bow to whatever the goverment wants and whether you want to see it or not this is part of the problem. To come on here and be all cinicle and ask people were they were November 2nd, and who did what to stop the patriot act is just stupid. I was part of the fight to stop the patriot act when they passed it the first time, where were you???? I contributed money and called my congressman many times, you think anything we do makes a difference, look at the rave act, I also fought against that, and guess what enough people stood together and stopped the rave act, then after it dident pass the goverment simply attached the rave act to another bill that they knew would pass, which was Megans law, what does the rave act have to do with Megans law????Absolutly nothing thats what, but they knew that if they attached it to a bill that everyone would vote for that it would get passed, who is going to vote against a law to protect kids???? You have to understand that there is a war going on and its not the one in Iraq, its right here on our own soil. Againt this so called "goverment" and the invisible man in the sky who hates gay people and anyone who isent a christian. The majority used to run this country and now thanks to the Bush administration its the minority that run things, or the moral majority. You vote to stop something and if it doesent pass they just attach it to somthing else and get it passed, how American, if you critisize the war in Iraq your unpatriotic, these are the views of our goverment. How do you stop a juggernaut??? So anyhow instead of coming on here and asking people where they were November 2nd or what they did for this or for that maybe you should be saying something to bring people together instead of pushing them apart.
        • Re: What do we really need to do

          Fri, December 23, 2005 - 2:26 PM
          You stop it by doing EXACTLY what you did on 11.2.04...and going one step further....getting everyone you know to do the same.

          Juggernaughts have been stopped before. It took enough people to get as angry as you have to do it.

          As for this being a small website that now has a CEO and such, it fell victim to the one thing that causes these things to happen. Popularity. If people did not come here it would not grow. People came. It grew. That attracted advertisers, money. Hence, a CEO. Whatever solution we have, it must be based on reality, the here and now, not wishful thinking.

          polybi
          • Re: What do we really need to do

            Fri, December 23, 2005 - 3:57 PM
            No, what tribe fell victim to was not popularity, it was greed, the true religion of this country, people came, tribe got "popular" and then the people who run tribe got greedy a caved because they wanted to put advertising on the site, they wanted the money, so they created a CEO and threw all of us under the bus. At that point we just became shoppers, not people. I would agree with you that not enough people vote, but I also see why they dont vote, no hope, hope is a very powerfull thing. I voted last year, it changed nothing but I will still vote and keep voting. Look bottom line is the only way you, me or anyone in this country is going to change anything is if the people stand together, and good luck trying to get that to happen in this day and age. The goverments propaganda machine is in full effect, they keep us seperated, by sexual orientaion, race, religion, social status, they keep us so busy fighting and bicering with each other it keeps us so busy that we dont pay attention to real evil, and the jugernaut goes on. but to say that people like tribe our not at fault is crazy, if someone is getting beat to death and a bunch of people are just standing around watching and not doing anything to stop it, well then those people are just as guilty as the person administering the beating.

            look I agree with some of things you say, and come on, were all on the same side here, I'm just saying what I feel, certainly not trying to offend.

            "It's better to die on your feet than live on your knee's"
            • Unsu...
               

              Re: What do we really need to do

              Fri, December 23, 2005 - 4:21 PM
              "No, what tribe fell victim to was not popularity, it was greed, the true religion of this country, people came, tribe got "popular" and then the people who run tribe got greedy a caved because they wanted to put advertising on the site, they wanted the money, so they created a CEO and threw all of us under the bus."

              This is speculation: Maybe Tribe like Yahoo encountered some not DOJ problems but advertiser problems in being associated with adult content?

              Now if you all put your thinking caps on.. the above would make more sense in allowing the adult content to remain but only to be private (out of sight). Yet, allowing the blind eye to the adult tribes, yet the advertisers being appeased as well?

              You really think the DOJ would care if a Tribe is private or not in applying obsenty laws or 2257? No. They wouldnt. Why? Because they would just send in a mole or two and find out about the private tribes, gather evidence, then show up at Tribe's doorstep (in theory).

              ......

              White IS Black - Black IS White

              Rapture
            • Re: What do we really need to do

              Wed, December 28, 2005 - 8:13 AM
              Guys, Tribe didn't *create* a CEO. Tribe has had a CEO since the company was founded about three years ago. We've always been a business.

              Political action is the right answer here. You aren't going to get Tribe to change its policies until the law changes.
              • Re: What do we really need to do

                Wed, December 28, 2005 - 9:40 AM
                the shoppers bow to tribe, and its all powerfull CEO......

                Typical corporate response,

                And of course tribe wont do anything, they'll just keep feeding us adds featuring scantily clad women selling us energy drinks, guess its ok to have a little nudity as long as its in an add and as long as tribe makes a little change.

                All praise tribe :(
              • Re: What do we really need to do

                Thu, December 29, 2005 - 10:24 AM
                Finally some clarity. And think of it......Tribe did NOT have to tell us anything. They could have just changed the rules, THEN sent us a notice...or like Yahoo does, make changes and kill your site without you noticing.

                I truly believe we can change this. My proof? My one sliver of proof? Cindy Sheehan. Here's some bubbleheaded soccer mom who lives in NoCal who loses her son, and just on the strength of grief and a small request she probably knew would not be honored, created a movement that is still cuasing tidal waves. Did you ever think the admininstration would even mentin troop reductions before the Stand in Crawford?

                Cindy revitalized my belief that we CAN do ANYTHING we put our mind to. And if it means playing by the bad guys rules, we have to learn the game and the playing feild and be better at thier game than we are.

                I was pretty close to dying this weekend. Does something to your complacency...like obliterate it! Action must be taken, but it should be SMART action. If it means money, we need to budget so the right people get it. If it means letters, we needthose addresses and phone numbers in our Palm Pilots. If it means voting, it means doing so in massive numbers. 90% turnouts are pretty much Diebold proof.

                But we can't act lile five-year olds or burned out hippies on this. We need to ALL grow up, buck up, and loudly...prouldy...with one clear voice say, this shall not stand.

                And mean it.

                polybi
                • Unsu...
                   

                  Re: What do we really need to do

                  Thu, December 29, 2005 - 12:42 PM

                  "It's better to die on your feet than live on your knee's"
                  ~~~
                  the "live free or die" lic. plates of n.h. are made in the state pen.
                  just sayin.


                  currently i'm exploring these new lines in the sand. the battle lines are being drawn and i'd like to know where they are for strategic reasons.


                  tribes.tribe.net/hideinplainsight
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: What do we really need to do

                    Thu, December 29, 2005 - 7:54 PM
                    But it is WAY better to move dem feet into ACTION!

                    polybi
                    • Unsu...
                       

                      Re: What do we really need to do

                      Fri, December 30, 2005 - 3:25 PM
                      But it is WAY better to move dem feet into ACTION!
                      ~~~
                      in general i agree but pick ur battles and run and live to fight another day.

                      i'm still not sure which is the best course here...
              • Unsu...
                 

                Re: What do we really need to do

                Fri, December 30, 2005 - 7:58 AM
                I'm back.

                "Political action is the right answer here. You aren't going to get Tribe to change its policies until the law changes."

                patti,

                Tribe currently is not in compliance with the law, even with the new TOU/TOS.

                Save the story telling. Especially, you being an employee of Tribe, and knowing the "sexually explicit content" is still on Tribe, with their full knowledge (and yours).

                Further, if the DOJ did come here they would just walk in and take Tribe's computers, and thus have the aforementioned.

                So again.. story telling....



                Rapture
                • Re: What do we really need to do

                  Fri, December 30, 2005 - 9:06 AM
                  Rapture, I'm not telling stories. I'm telling you the truth. Rail against Tribe's policies all you want to, but it won't do much good. We took the actions we thought we needed to take in order to protect our business in the current legal climate. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that the actions we took are 100% the correct response and will give us perfect legal protection, because I'm not a lawyer, I haven't done sufficient research, and I don't know.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: What do we really need to do

                    Fri, December 30, 2005 - 3:29 PM
                    Having read this, people.tribe.net/patti/blo...d61ee7e9e7 , I have a good perspective on what is going on. The question is how can we as Tribers and Tribe itself fight this without harming Tribe. I've already listed things that can be done....I just want to hear more *constructive* ideas on how to go forward, now that Tribe may not be in the crosshairs of the 2257 bullies.

                    polybi
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Unsu...
                     

                    Re: What do we really need to do

                    Mon, January 2, 2006 - 12:42 AM
                    The actions you took were a TEXTBOOK example of what happens when a young company grows just enough to develop a case of corporate paranoia.

                    Stop listening to the lawyers. They're paid to be over-cautious.

                    While you're at it, go to www.craigslist.org/ers/ .
                    There are blatantly sexual photos and even offers of prostitution all over that site. If Craig Newmark isn't afraid, you don't need to be.

                    Here's why:

                    Regardless of the letter of the law, the Department of Justice is exploiting the 2257 statute for a purpose: to harass and intimidate pornographers.
                    Tribe isn't a porn site, so if anyone in the Tribe boardroom thinks
                    Tribe is anywhere above #10000 on Alberto Gonzales' hit list, they are just plain wrong. By the time the DOJ works it's way past Larry Flint, Seymore Butts, and the 9998 other perverts ahead of Tribe in line, they'll be a new attorney general, who has different priorities.

                    What's more, because Tribe is not a porn site, or a pay site, getting prosecuted would actually be GOOD for business. Why? Think of all the free press you'd get when the ACLU and EFF come running to your defence.

                    You know, all of this is so goddamn obvious that I can feel comfortable saying that none of the new TOU was about the law. Tribe is most likely feigning legal fears as an excuse to clean up the site to pander to big money sponsors.



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