I'm almost ready to submit my mixes for mastering, but have run into a snag.
I'm mixing on very good monitors, but I have no sub-woofer, so can't monitor the lower end. My mixes sound great on small systems and in headphones, but on a car stereo that has a sub, all sorts of low 'boomy' artifacts become apparent.
I'm assuming this is something to fix with EQ, but since I can't monitor what I'm doing to that lower range while mixing, I'm not sure what to do about this boominess.
Would cutting the bass off completely at a certain frequency (say 60Hz) be a wreckless solution?
Any ideas?
Thanks.
I'm mixing on very good monitors, but I have no sub-woofer, so can't monitor the lower end. My mixes sound great on small systems and in headphones, but on a car stereo that has a sub, all sorts of low 'boomy' artifacts become apparent.
I'm assuming this is something to fix with EQ, but since I can't monitor what I'm doing to that lower range while mixing, I'm not sure what to do about this boominess.
Would cutting the bass off completely at a certain frequency (say 60Hz) be a wreckless solution?
Any ideas?
Thanks.
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Sun, September 9, 2007 - 9:31 PMI think you are on the right track with rolling off all of your bass frequencies below 60hz. I don't have a subwoofer either and I have just learned to settle for "audible" bass as opposed to "thumpin/phat" bass during mixdown.....it generally comes through well enough & doesn't stress the speakers on other systems. I haven't done it yeat but acoustic treatments like bass traps, and strategically placed acoustifoam will help. I DID however buy some foam "decouplers" to sit my speakers on and it really has helped.
www.myspace.com/mortal_engines
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Mon, September 10, 2007 - 12:33 AMDefinitely cut off below 60Hz. Everything below there only sounds muddy to human ears. -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Mon, September 10, 2007 - 9:09 AMI'll be the lone voice of dissent here then... :)
Don't roll off at 60Hz, try the hi pass at 150Hz on all non-bass tracks, this helps with the way bass builds up in a mix quickly. Maybe do some cutting into the bass track at 60-80Hz and roll off at 20 (or up to 40 if you feel you have to). Cutting at 60Hz you risk losing all of your low end energy, kind of a needless solution and while it may sound good on your systems, on a larger system this will be noticable and undesirable (hopefully this will get out there into the world and get played everywhere right?). Compressing specifically around 60Hz is probably your best option if you have a good multiband compressor. Also be careful how the bass and the kick drum interact, you may need parallel compression triggered by the kick (very common in dance music). -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Mon, September 10, 2007 - 9:20 AMah - this answers my question to you in the other forum. thanks j3.
so, a slight cut at 60hz (a few db perhaps?), and a rolloff at the 'inaudible' level of 20 or so. -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Mon, September 10, 2007 - 9:30 AMsomething like that, I would play around with it a bit, see where your specific mix needs the TLC. :) -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 2:57 AMThere are many audible subsonic harmonics (and partials) in most program material.
Knee jerkedly cutting off all sound below 60 cycles will rob your music of some of
it's fullness (even when what you are hearing is not distinct).
Also, be careful in judging your music on car stereos.
Most car stereos have very exaggerated subsonice (if they, indeed, have the capacity to reproduce those frequencies at all).
Here's what I have done to begin to 'learn' how my own monitors (NHT Pros) color the sound of a mix.
I listen to a mix on a cheap boom box
I listen on an expensive boom box
I listen on a cheap car stereo
I listen on an expensive car stereo
I listen on a cheap home stereo
I listen on an expensive home stereo.
Finally, I cross reference my mix by listening to it on a pair of Sony Professional Headphones (which are an industry standard
and mercifully, only cost $100)
This last test will accurately let you know what your subsonics sound like (as they are flat from 20 Hz to 20 K Hz, below and above
a typical human being's ability to hear frequencies in music).
After using this method many times, I don't use it at all any more because I have gotten to 'know' how a mix will sound averaged
over all those many systems.
Now, I just mix till I like it (without a subwoofer) and occasionally cross reference to the Sony headphones to make sure that
I'm not killing the mix with two much subsonic saturation.
Be careful of one thing, though...............DON'T MIX SOLELY ON HEADPHONES!!!!!
As good as they sound, they do not let you hear cross ear information that really informs a stereo image when listening on speakers.
All your reverbs will be incorrect if you only use headphones because of this lack of cross ear referencing.
And one last little trick if you have mudiness between two bass sounds (usually kick and bass synth or guitar)
Use a 31 graphic equalizer styled plugin (or an analogue one) and put each channel of bass into one side of the equalizer.
Now, take the lowest frequency band of the first one (should be 30 cycles) and lower it 3 DB. Commensorately, take the 30 Hz band of the other instrument and raise it by 3 DB. Next move to the next band (60 Hz) and do the opposite............boost it by 3 Db and
cut 3 Db on the opposite instrument commensorately. proceed all the way up the spectrum on the graphic in a
zipper like fashion.
This is an old analogue trick called 'Zipper EQ' that I don't hear used much any more.
What kicks ass about it, is that if you solo each mono bass track they will sound a little weird but because Bass frequencies are
omni directional (mono in essence) when you put them together, they will sound really good together but distinctly different from
each other. The human brain will fill in the frequencies missing in a psycho acoustic way.
And one last piece of subsonic mixing advice and I'll shut up:
Put on your headphones and go to the 60 Hz band on the whole mix and take it completely out.
Now, slowly bring it back up again. As soon as you can feel the band you can stop.
Experiment with taking it up and down. Just feeling it before you actually hear it will put enough
of these frequencies in the mix to make the whole thing sound more naturalistic.
Now do the same thing with the 30 Hz frequency bands.
and raise it by 3 DB. -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Thu, September 13, 2007 - 9:32 AMThanks for all the great tips Rick.
I've mostly been 'low shelving' my tracks around 125Hz and reducing db until the boom is gone.
One thing I'd like to note in case it changes anyone's advice: I have no bass instruments (synth/guitar etc.) or bass drum in my mixes at all. Virtually all the material peaks in around 250Hz and stretches across the higher end (i.e. since these mixes consist of vocals, glockenspiel, thumb piano, and other small instruments, there is virtually no information below 200Hz or so).
I suppose, as you've said Rick, there are still subsonic harmonics (and 'partials'?) that shouldn't be eliminated.
On top of that, it turns out my sister's car stereo had the sub setting way high, so it was indeed exaggerated.
...and thanks for the tip on the Sony headphones - I was actually wondering which ones I should purchase. It looks like Sony makes several models of "Professional" headphones, the most expensive ranging down to 5Hz! Wowzers!!
: ) -
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Re: dealing with the 'boom'
Mon, September 17, 2007 - 3:32 AMthe ones almost everyone sells for $99 are really excellent.
if possible, find a price from an online company and take it to
a local ma and pa independent music store to match.
Not only will this keep independents in business, but also remember that
invariably, local music stores employ musicians and are sympathetic to them
when they have gigs. Not all businesses are so it's a good ripple effect we can
create by spending our dollars there and NOT online at the huge mega music corps.
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