One of the frustrations I've had with trying to come to understand what people mean when they say they are "Christian" is a lack of apparent consensus on the part of believers as to what that means.
So, this being Easter, I thought I would ask the people here.
The first ground rule is that I have no intention of arguing the truth or reasonableness of any of these propositions. We'll take everything on faith. Faith is good enough. I just want to know what the faith is.
The second ground rule is that every premise I'm presenting here is something a self-professed "real" Christian has claimed to be essential to the faith.
The third ground rule is that if I have left out any options that "real" Christians believe, you may interject them. This list is not comprehensive and if it presents any false choices, you may rectify them.
The fourth ground rule is that you may pose any counter or clarifying question you want and I will make a good faith effort to answer it. You may also pose additional questions for believers. But remember the first ground rule: it's not a debate...we're just gathering beliefs. Also, no "when did you stop coveting your neighbor's ass?" questions. It must be possible to fairly and forthrightly answer your question.
The fifth ground rule is that this is not a colloquium on what may or may not be true. We're asking what you MUST believe to be a Christian. If Christianity does not demand a particular belief (say, in literal transubstantiation, for example) it's adequate to say "maybe yes, may no, it's not important." We need not delve into experiments involving spitting the Eucharist into a petri dish and sending it to CSI: Vatican City for analysis.
Here are the questions. Tell me, what do "real Christians" believe about the following:
1) Salvation: what do we need to be saved FROM? What happens to us after we die? Is it:
a) Those who accept Jesus and die in a state of grace go to heaven and sinners and unbelievers go to hell
b) The saved go to heaven and sinners and unbelievers simply die
c) We don't know; Christianity makes no specific claims as to the afterlife. Jesus' teachings are for this world and God will take care of us in the next
d) Real Christians don't worry about death because death has been abolished altogether by Christ
2) Salvation: what does it mean to "accept Jesus?" Is it:
a) You must willingly acknowledge Jesus' divinity and accept his blood sacrifice
b) Jesus saved everybody. "Accepting Jesus" is like "accepting gravity." It exists and affects you no matter what you think about it.
c) Jesus may or may not have been divine. He may have just been an ordinary man. What's important is accepting the truth of what he said, not believing any particular story about his life
d) Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis Requiem *whack!*
3) Does the Old Testament still apply?
a) Only as a historical document to help us understand the context of Jesus' sacrifice. He has overturned the old law and replaced it with a new covenant.
b) Jesus did not overturn the old law, but confirmed it in every "jot and tittle." But some of those jots and tittles only applied to the ancient Hebrews, not to us.
c) Bullshit, every jot and tittle applies to everyone.
d) The bible is the word of god, but not JUST the word of god. It is also a human document. Jesus showed us that we must learn to render unto Caesar (or, in the case of the old testament, Pharaoh) that which is theirs and unto God that which is His. This is not always easy and we are imperfect, but this is our struggle.
4) How will the world end?
a) That's a scientific question. The end times prophecies in the bible are fantasies and thought problems to help us learn how to live on earth.
b) Something like Revelations will literally happen. The believers will literally disappear in the Rapture. A seven-crowned dragon will literally rise from the sea. The anti-Christ will literally dominate the globe for 1,000 years. Jesus will literally return in body and spirit and wage war with the anti-Christ. At the end, the remaining faithful on earth will literally, physically, be transported to heaven and the allies of Satan to hell. Some parts of that may or may not come to pass, but that's the big picture
c) No one really knows and it's not an important question vis. faith.
5) Does God care what religion you are?
a) No. Not at all.
b) Not really, but you have to have some kind of transcendent supernatural belief. He is expressed in that way.
c) Mostly, yeah, you have to be some kind of Christians. Jews may have a special side deal. Not sure about that. Muslims possibly can get in under the wire. Hindus are in trouble.
d) Absolutely. You must not only be a Christian, but you must belong to precisely the correct church. All other so-called "Christian" faiths are false and their followers are heretics who will burn along with the other unbelievers.
e) God doesn't care what you believe so long as you live "as Christ." Buddha, for example, likely lived "as Christ" since his values were very much in line with Christian teaching. It doesn't matter that he never became a Christian BELIEVER because he was a Christian BEHAVER.
6) Where did humans come from?
a) That's a scientific question. Genesis is a metaphorical story about our evolution as a human culture. It's not a biology textbook.
b) Six thousand years, give or take. The earth and everything on it was literally created in six days.
c) As scientifically-oriented persons, we believe the earth evolved over billions of years. As a persons of faith, we believe that the earth was literally created in six days. One is mundane truth, the other revealed truth, but both are true. This only seems like a contradiction if you don't understand faith. Insisting that of two seemingly contradictory statements at most only one can be true is simply an expression of faith in reason instead of God. Since reason (like all things) is subordinate to God, it is therefore irrational not to believe in both Genesis and the scientific narrative as coequal and nonoverlapping accounts of the same event.
d) Don't know. It's not important. Only the covenant of the New Testament is relevant to Christianity.
That ought to do it for now. Happy Easter everyone! Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to fire up my copy of "The Last Temptation of Christ" (screw that "Passion" bullshit!) and drink milkshakes all day!
So, this being Easter, I thought I would ask the people here.
The first ground rule is that I have no intention of arguing the truth or reasonableness of any of these propositions. We'll take everything on faith. Faith is good enough. I just want to know what the faith is.
The second ground rule is that every premise I'm presenting here is something a self-professed "real" Christian has claimed to be essential to the faith.
The third ground rule is that if I have left out any options that "real" Christians believe, you may interject them. This list is not comprehensive and if it presents any false choices, you may rectify them.
The fourth ground rule is that you may pose any counter or clarifying question you want and I will make a good faith effort to answer it. You may also pose additional questions for believers. But remember the first ground rule: it's not a debate...we're just gathering beliefs. Also, no "when did you stop coveting your neighbor's ass?" questions. It must be possible to fairly and forthrightly answer your question.
The fifth ground rule is that this is not a colloquium on what may or may not be true. We're asking what you MUST believe to be a Christian. If Christianity does not demand a particular belief (say, in literal transubstantiation, for example) it's adequate to say "maybe yes, may no, it's not important." We need not delve into experiments involving spitting the Eucharist into a petri dish and sending it to CSI: Vatican City for analysis.
Here are the questions. Tell me, what do "real Christians" believe about the following:
1) Salvation: what do we need to be saved FROM? What happens to us after we die? Is it:
a) Those who accept Jesus and die in a state of grace go to heaven and sinners and unbelievers go to hell
b) The saved go to heaven and sinners and unbelievers simply die
c) We don't know; Christianity makes no specific claims as to the afterlife. Jesus' teachings are for this world and God will take care of us in the next
d) Real Christians don't worry about death because death has been abolished altogether by Christ
2) Salvation: what does it mean to "accept Jesus?" Is it:
a) You must willingly acknowledge Jesus' divinity and accept his blood sacrifice
b) Jesus saved everybody. "Accepting Jesus" is like "accepting gravity." It exists and affects you no matter what you think about it.
c) Jesus may or may not have been divine. He may have just been an ordinary man. What's important is accepting the truth of what he said, not believing any particular story about his life
d) Pie Jesu Domine, dona eis Requiem *whack!*
3) Does the Old Testament still apply?
a) Only as a historical document to help us understand the context of Jesus' sacrifice. He has overturned the old law and replaced it with a new covenant.
b) Jesus did not overturn the old law, but confirmed it in every "jot and tittle." But some of those jots and tittles only applied to the ancient Hebrews, not to us.
c) Bullshit, every jot and tittle applies to everyone.
d) The bible is the word of god, but not JUST the word of god. It is also a human document. Jesus showed us that we must learn to render unto Caesar (or, in the case of the old testament, Pharaoh) that which is theirs and unto God that which is His. This is not always easy and we are imperfect, but this is our struggle.
4) How will the world end?
a) That's a scientific question. The end times prophecies in the bible are fantasies and thought problems to help us learn how to live on earth.
b) Something like Revelations will literally happen. The believers will literally disappear in the Rapture. A seven-crowned dragon will literally rise from the sea. The anti-Christ will literally dominate the globe for 1,000 years. Jesus will literally return in body and spirit and wage war with the anti-Christ. At the end, the remaining faithful on earth will literally, physically, be transported to heaven and the allies of Satan to hell. Some parts of that may or may not come to pass, but that's the big picture
c) No one really knows and it's not an important question vis. faith.
5) Does God care what religion you are?
a) No. Not at all.
b) Not really, but you have to have some kind of transcendent supernatural belief. He is expressed in that way.
c) Mostly, yeah, you have to be some kind of Christians. Jews may have a special side deal. Not sure about that. Muslims possibly can get in under the wire. Hindus are in trouble.
d) Absolutely. You must not only be a Christian, but you must belong to precisely the correct church. All other so-called "Christian" faiths are false and their followers are heretics who will burn along with the other unbelievers.
e) God doesn't care what you believe so long as you live "as Christ." Buddha, for example, likely lived "as Christ" since his values were very much in line with Christian teaching. It doesn't matter that he never became a Christian BELIEVER because he was a Christian BEHAVER.
6) Where did humans come from?
a) That's a scientific question. Genesis is a metaphorical story about our evolution as a human culture. It's not a biology textbook.
b) Six thousand years, give or take. The earth and everything on it was literally created in six days.
c) As scientifically-oriented persons, we believe the earth evolved over billions of years. As a persons of faith, we believe that the earth was literally created in six days. One is mundane truth, the other revealed truth, but both are true. This only seems like a contradiction if you don't understand faith. Insisting that of two seemingly contradictory statements at most only one can be true is simply an expression of faith in reason instead of God. Since reason (like all things) is subordinate to God, it is therefore irrational not to believe in both Genesis and the scientific narrative as coequal and nonoverlapping accounts of the same event.
d) Don't know. It's not important. Only the covenant of the New Testament is relevant to Christianity.
That ought to do it for now. Happy Easter everyone! Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to fire up my copy of "The Last Temptation of Christ" (screw that "Passion" bullshit!) and drink milkshakes all day!
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