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Oedipus and Akhenaten

topic posted Wed, November 12, 2003 - 1:32 PM by  Unsubscribed
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Anyone ever read Oedipus and Akhenaten by Emmanuel Velikovsky? Its amazing, the evidence of similarities he draws between Akhenaten's life and the legend.
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  • I have read other Velikovsky articles, but I am not familiar with that piece. Do you know if it's available online? I have looked for his books at used book stores, but mostly i have found blank stares from people who have never heard of him. What I have read has been from The Imannuel Velikovsky Archive online. here's the link www.varchive.org/
    What he knew from his research was amazing.
    • Unsu...
       
      yeah well I got the book from the library. i also couldn't find any book store or anything that carried his works. i even tried online and found nothing. if i were you, i would try your public library. if that doesn't work, try a college or university library nearby. velikovsky's books tend to be scattered randomly in places like that. its an amazing book though, you really should check it out. tell me about what you have read, i've been wanting to read more of his stuff. did you know he used to work with einstien?
      • Hi again,
        It's kind of funny; being so used to reading everything online, I didn't really think of the Library. I even know a librarian who would find it for me. What I have read is what is available in the online archive. It includes correspondences with Einstein where he is trying to convince him to accept into his theories the effects of the electrical properties in the solar system. I did not finish this, nor could i finish the autobiography; a little dry for me. I read "In The Beginning", which was at times almost to hard to believe, even as a possibility. But, at the same time I had the feeling that what i was reading was the truth, or very close to it. He seemed to be very thorough with his research and corroboration of facts. I listened to most of the audio, though with his accent it is hard to hear sometimes. I also watched the movie. I was hooked right away and spent every available minute reading his work. Now that I revisited the archive page I see more that I want to read like the "Assyrian Conquest".
        Gotta go,
        happy holidays
        • Unsu...
           
          awesome. i really want to read in the beginning. i read something about how einstein thought his ideas were completely off base.
          • Einstein would never really concede that Velikovsky was right. He did eventually start to come around and at least discuss the possibilities of an electrical force in the universe. but, a psychiatrist discussing physics was never taken seriously. It is hard to believe that to this day the electrical properties are still not factored into celestial mechanics. Anyway, I am going to hit up my librarian friend to see if he can find that book for me. What other authors do you enjoy reading? how was your interest in Egypt sparked? For me, it was visiting there twice when i was in the Navy. Now, as a elementary computer teacher part of my job is research. I basically get paid to surf the internet and hang out with some great kids. Not a bad deal.
            gotta go, my next class is here.
            scott
            • Unsu...
               
              I've been fascinated with Egypt for as long as I can remember. i once did a presentation in front of my 4th grade AG class on mummification when we weren't even learning about ancient egypt. i've never had the opportunity to go to egypt. i have tried to go with my school twice and both times the trip was cancelled because our college president didn't think it would be safe. but im of course into all kinds of history. i get to go to italy during my spring break and i will finally have the chance to visit pompeii and herculaneum, which i have wanted to do my whole life!
            • I'm new to this game.
              Where do 'Qi' and 'Orgone' figure in all this?
              • universal life energy.
                i suppose it figures all around you.
                • ...but if we're talking symbolically or philosophically, aside from the idea of balance, and harmony you're wanting to research the weight, meaning and relevance of ANKH to the Egyptians.

                  key of life. Like Prince's little thing, but totally different. Although I'm sure if you're a fan of The Purple One, he's a Key of Life in his own right...
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    I'm curious about the way that 'life energy' being viewed differently by ancient Egyptians vs. ancient Chinese actually
                    affected how they made any imprtant decisions.
                    The Reichians say that the Saharasian view of life energy as something to be contained resulted in the destertification of
                    northern Africa and the mideast. I'm not convinced that the 'life energy' necessarily provides the best explantion,
                    but there might be concrete examples of how it was viewed making a difference in what people actually did.
                    in China, so the story goes, several rulers had tried to stop the flooding of the Yellow River by building damns and dikes and such, but always failed. Finally, someone decided to build
                    channels off from it that would keep its level low enough that when more water suddenly came, there would already be space for the water. I think this story reflects much in the way Chinese have tended to think about flow and containment.
                    I know practically nothing about Egyptian water systems, but
                    I'm curious about what was done and how the success or failure of what was tried affected or failed to affect how Egyptians thought about flow and containment in general.
  • O&A can be read as an answer to Freud's Moses and Monotheism, where Freud claimed that Akhenaten invented monotheism, which the Jews later adopted.

    A lot in IV simply doesn't hold up, but David Rohl's new chronology, which I accept, agrees that the Exodus must be dated at the end of the XIII Dynasty, not the beginning of the XIX.
    • And in fact, the Egyptian Ministry of Antiquities appears to be warming up to the idea of delving deeper into solidifying our knowledge of Exodus Pharonic history.

      I wonder which mummy will get the honor of having let Moses andhis people go, because as we've learned with our M of A friends, it's all relative and ever changing.

      But I don't think Freud gets the credit for that...
      • It's important to remember that the Pentateuch wasn't even compiled until the 7th century, bc during the Babylonian exile; well after the Egyptian empire had lost its glory. Most of the Old Testament myths are amalgamations of Sumerian and Babylonian stories, so I would look there for the origins of Moses. Also, there is no archaeological evidence to support the idea that any Hebrews ever resided in Egypt during the pharonic period.

        I doubt that Akhenaten invented the monotheism that evolved into Judaism because Yaweh is such a strongly tribal deity. Personally, I think Yaweh arose from the Sumerian weather deity Enlil; he's a wrathful deity who likes to take the form of clouds and fire.
        • A scientist after my own heart,every thing you said was very true.But i think wether he created it or not the ancient kemetans did and were the earilest to form a monotheistic ideal of self,one God,correct? (This is not saying that before the egiptians decided to come together as one and civilise that when those groups were living in small tribes that they did not have monotheistic ideals based upon holistic,natural living.
          I'm shore they did because when we look at the Akan,etc tribes that make-up the black egyptian we see it in their mythology,daily culture,right???
          Iguess its safe to say a people's mythology and daily culture is that peopl's mind-set ,wisdom and reality.So when we see the "Warrior-Gods" come forth in a people with all this wrath and fire,its safe to say "something in the mind of that civilisation,tribe or nation has went array,right?Cause the so-called God is angry and there is present in the people and writings "guilt" and "retribution" for actions and the whole of the mythology has comeforth out of the great peace of the preceeding civilisation,right??? :-)
          • Based on my limited knowlege of Egyptian theology (an often self-conflicting body of philosophy), I don't think that Aten can be compared to Yaweh as a chief deity in a monotheistic religion. Yaweh is a highly personal god; he is omnicient, omnipresent, and the highest form of reality. Aten, in contrast, is a product of the Egyptians' consubstantial universe.

            I see how they are similar, but I think much of the popular associations are efforts to connect bedouin Hebrews and egyptian civilization. Or perhaps I'm misreading your post.
            • Unsu...
               
              all right lets get this thing going again. anyone want to continue the discussion about the connections between oedipus and akhenaten?
              • Why does Akhenaten have a big melon shaped head ? Every depiction I see of him he looks like some kind of strange mutant....
                • Unsu...
                   
                  he had some sort of disease that made his head mis-shapen, as well as his body (which was shaped more like a woman's than a man's). he was also the first pharaoh that requested to be realistically depicted in his paintings/sculptures.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    Akhenaten is said to have had had Marfans Disease. A Genetic, anomaly, and he lived to about the age one would live without medical intervention. Spooky music..........but after seeing all of the bust's of Akhenaten, I can't help but think he looks decidely Reptilian....and mutant...and built his home on the cliffs.. People with this disorder don't usually go for high altitudes ....secondary to very low energy levels... Oh well thank goodness for the mitered hat...that did hide his hideous head. Marfans does cause skeletal and skin deformities...Still gang this Pharaoh has his own peculiar look, that to my knowledge was not repeated in any other male Pharaoh. His daughters bore the same resemblence to him however less pronounced.
                • I've heard the medical explanations for this iconographic shift. Another explanation is that since he was making such drastic changes in Egypt's religious and political structure that his artists also changed the usual artistic conventions. Not only does he have that oblong head, but also a rather feminine body type.