Biochemistry examples

topic posted Wed, April 18, 2007 - 10:34 AM by  Bicycle
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OK. We're exploring protein separation techniques. The Prof is not always clear on what he wants. Hes said that we do not need to know the amino acids, but then three days later on the test we are asked which amino acids will be on a protein on the inside of a plasma membrane, outside the cell, and inside the cell. Also we were asked what roles each of the amino's played in general. like histidine is a positive polar, and the like. So Im a little edgy when trying to decipher what he wants. But I don't have time to just memorize everything, and all things biochemical. So, this brings me to my quiz tomorrow. Hes asked us to read about working with proteins, and study up on chromatography, electrophoresis, and activity of the proteins.
Im guessing what he would ask us to do and Ive come up with a potential Q. Could you please come up with an answer?

Q. How would you separate out a medium sized(500dalton) protein with a charge of [ -.97] in pH 6.4. out of a mixture?

Or would a better question be

Q.How would you determine the size, and charge of a protein?

AM I right in thinking that size, charge, and active sites are the only things you can separate proteins by?
posted by:
Bicycle
Washington
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  • Re: Biochemistry examples

    Wed, April 18, 2007 - 11:38 AM
    First for the protiens in cell membranes:

    The polar amino acids will be exposed to either the exterior or interior of the cell or will line a channel between the two. The non-polar hydrophobic amino acids will be the pieces that anchor the protien to the membrane. Think function.

    To seperate peptides (500 daltons ~ 5 amino acids) one can use an HPLC, reverse phase works best, using acidic buffers for basic compounds and basic buffers for acidic (negative charged) compounds. In general one should not use extreme pH's for protiens because one could denature them. At 500 daltons, there can be no structures that can be denatured by pH (just not enough there to have a structure).

    There are other types of chromatography, ionic and affinity being likely choices. In ionic, on varies ion concentrations to purify compounds. In affinity chromatography, one relies on how well a compound sticks to the resin to purify. For your peptide, running your sample through a weak base ion echange resin while in, say, EtOAc (neutral) would likely get it to absorb on the resin while all the basic compounds where washed out, afterwards you would wash with EtOAc & 1-10% Acetic acid to remove your peptide.

    Other methods include size exclusive chromatography - good for getting large compounds while leaving small ones in the resin. Dialysis is often used but is very slow and requires large volumes of solvent - good for crude seperations. Finally there is electroforisis (sp), which is how DNA finger prints are made.

    Hope that helps.
  • Re: Biochemistry examples

    Wed, April 18, 2007 - 11:47 AM
    "Q.How would you determine the size, and charge of a protein?"

    Size is determined by two things mass (mass spec) and shape (x-ray crystolography).
    Charge is determined by pH titration or estimated from counting acidic and basic groups.

    "AM I right in thinking that size, charge, and active sites are the only things you can separate proteins by? "

    No, solubility often works. Charge is misleading with protiens - they can form complexes with metals or other compounds which mask their charges. Also protiens form intra-molecular acid-base pairs (IE glutamatic acid and arginine) which also tie-up charges and give the protien its shape.
    • Re: Biochemistry examples

      Tue, June 12, 2007 - 10:25 PM
      OK. I dont get it. Just that, I dont get it. Its obvious if you know that Im not impressed with biochemistry. I am finishing my qtr of biochem, with about a 3.0, with the second hardest teacher(second to the one who is being "let go") and I did not find the class to be exemplary, particularly tough, difficult, interesting, exciting, or any other positive term. I know some very nice, cool, attractive, smart, people who like, adore biochem, and I just dont get it. Organic was exciting, with electrons flipping everywhere, oxygens pulling, lone pairs suffering, carbonyls taking it roughly from behind and liking it. This I just DO NOT GET. please, dont explain, dont say your sorry, just accept that I dont Kay? It was interesting, I learned, I move on. Next qtr, P-Chem. .....sigh.
      • Re: Biochemistry examples

        Wed, June 13, 2007 - 10:36 AM
        I'm an applications sorta of guy, if it ain't providing tools that I can use to solve problems I'm interested, I'm not impressed. Biochem explains how things within cells work, but rarely does that information provide tools that I can use, so I don't find it all that interesting either. Besides, way to many factoids to remember.
        • Re: Biochemistry examples

          Thu, June 14, 2007 - 10:43 PM
          hmmm. interesting. I hadn't thought of it that way. I guess if I thought the same way that would explain why I liked the whole DNA microasay, and PAGE/SDS PAGE, and other metods for exploring molecules, but beyond that it was like charlie Browns Mom. i kept thinking."This is ochem, but without talking about the cool mechanisms, and one arm is tied behind our back."
          Pchem I expect to be tough, also I will be taking a Calc 2 class as well as an education class that expects me to be in a classroom for 3 hours a week. If I wasnt married with children I could do it and ahve time to enjoy, but with all that, I will be fighting for time.
          • Re: Biochemistry examples

            Fri, June 15, 2007 - 12:06 AM
            Depending on how it is taught and what is covered PChem is best with Dif-Eq. Perhaps that is what your Calc 2 is?
            • Re: Biochemistry examples

              Fri, June 15, 2007 - 9:47 AM
              Nope. Calc 1 is differentials, and calc 2 is integrals. I will be getting set up to fail unless I study hard. My pchem 1 is taught by a teacher who focuses on the math, but makes it easy, and allows notes and open book in the tests. Pchem 2 is taught by a physical chemist who is much tougher, and does not allow open anythinhg. So pchem one will be made easy, but 2 will be hard. not a good combo.
              • Re: Biochemistry examples

                Fri, June 15, 2007 - 12:01 PM
                Open books and open notes aren't always that helpful, in fact they often will distract you. Understanding the math and the implications of the theories of quantum mechanics is by far more important. Just FYI
              • Re: Biochemistry examples

                Fri, June 15, 2007 - 12:27 PM
                Sorry, but you misunderstood, Dif-Eq (differential equations) is not what is taught in Calc 1 (derivatives). An example of a differential equation is:

                ((d/dx)^2 - 5 d/dx + 2) f[x] = 8 f[x]

                Actually when a prof tells you his tests are open book/open notes the last thing you want to bring is either because if you need them you will fail. Do take advantage of the open notes part by writing, in regular sized handwritting, a singled sided page of formulae. This class will be hard, perhaps it might be wish to check with the professor to see that you have the required math for the class.

                Taught well, your Calc 2 should not be hard, though you will need to memorize formulae.
                • Re: Biochemistry examples

                  Thu, June 21, 2007 - 5:49 PM
                  Actually I did understand. I knew that calc one did not teach diff eq. I expect to get that in calc 3 or 4. And as for open book, I have not heard it put s succinctly, but I have followed what you preached. I usually write down the eq's needed, and a couple of examples, along with some phrases to remind me of which eq's to use for when.

                  I cant check with the prof, as he is technically retired or something, but he is coming back in the fall to teach one moe qtr of p-chem. Other students who have taken him say that he is fairly easy. Thats what sets off bells in my head. Alos I have talked to the head of the dept. and he has said that derivatives are whats needed, not integrals for pchem 1.
                  Im of the mindset that since I will be teaching chem I should UNDERSTAND the principles, and I equate understanding with having taken rigorous professors. At least in my major I do.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Biochemistry examples

                    Thu, June 21, 2007 - 5:56 PM
                    "... I equate understanding with having taken rigorous professors."

                    Sometimes "easy" means "explained very well" and "rigorous" means "impossible to understand." Unfortunately, often you are right.

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