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Hey guys, I was wondering if you know of any men-only Pagan groups for worship and bonding (forging a brotherhood) in your local community? And, if not, are any men interested in starting one within said "local community"? Do you believe anyone (of either gender) might be averse to such a group? I distinctly remember hearing of a case where a Men's Mysteries worship had just commensed at a greater Pagan Gathering when, tromping down through the woods was a band of women whom demanded entry! They were a group from the local Women's Mysteries seminary, and thought that they had, due to their gender, the right to partake in Men's Mysteries, 'cause they wanted to know what all these men were upto. Ever the diplomat, the head of the Men's group said this would be fine, as long as they did not demand entry, and also allowed the men to partake in the Women's Mysteries. They refused, declairing that the men would only pervert their Mysteries! Now, as offensive as this is of these women (it would be offensivce if men behave the same way towards them!), it shows that they have absolutely no respect for Men and their holy Mysteries.
Still, I (for one) want to forge a men's-only group for Pagans (regardless of sexual orientation), yet...Pagan men in particular seem sooooo apathetic and indifferent! Why do you think this might be? An interesting analogy may be found in Pagan publications, such as "Sage Woman" and "The Beltane Papers"--these are women-only Pagan magazines that each used to have a sibling publication for men-only. However, each failed drastically! In fact, after "Sage Woman"'s bro. "Green Man" failed, it was made a multi-gender publication as "Pan Gaia", and now it's thriving! Why do men not seem interested in networking with other men only? Heck, I have come across numerous men that feel phenominally uncomfortable ritualizing with Pagans if there are no women present, as if women must be mandatory at every ritual! Why do they seem to think it doesn't "seem right" to get together with a group comprising all Tab "A"s with no Slot "B"s!
Moreover, according to Isaac Bonewitz research (found in his book, "The Pagan Man"), the vast majorirty of respondants for his questionaire declaired men that need to ritualize with other men are either "wimps", or they believe (incorrectly) that such groups are all about making men feel bad about being male due to Pagan beliefs re: feminism! Of course, it doesn't help when many Pagan males in articles that I've read (albeit dated, I suspect) tend to declair the presence of men, and the High Priest as unneccessary; and that he just needs to accept this and deal with it!
Any thoughts about how to get men interested in gathering together in order to fashion a Brotherhood? Just thought I'd start a topic for discussion.
Still, I (for one) want to forge a men's-only group for Pagans (regardless of sexual orientation), yet...Pagan men in particular seem sooooo apathetic and indifferent! Why do you think this might be? An interesting analogy may be found in Pagan publications, such as "Sage Woman" and "The Beltane Papers"--these are women-only Pagan magazines that each used to have a sibling publication for men-only. However, each failed drastically! In fact, after "Sage Woman"'s bro. "Green Man" failed, it was made a multi-gender publication as "Pan Gaia", and now it's thriving! Why do men not seem interested in networking with other men only? Heck, I have come across numerous men that feel phenominally uncomfortable ritualizing with Pagans if there are no women present, as if women must be mandatory at every ritual! Why do they seem to think it doesn't "seem right" to get together with a group comprising all Tab "A"s with no Slot "B"s!
Moreover, according to Isaac Bonewitz research (found in his book, "The Pagan Man"), the vast majorirty of respondants for his questionaire declaired men that need to ritualize with other men are either "wimps", or they believe (incorrectly) that such groups are all about making men feel bad about being male due to Pagan beliefs re: feminism! Of course, it doesn't help when many Pagan males in articles that I've read (albeit dated, I suspect) tend to declair the presence of men, and the High Priest as unneccessary; and that he just needs to accept this and deal with it!
Any thoughts about how to get men interested in gathering together in order to fashion a Brotherhood? Just thought I'd start a topic for discussion.
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Iowa
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Re: Pagan Men-Only Groups?
Tue, December 16, 2008 - 9:07 PM"Any thoughts about how to get men interested in gathering together in order to fashion a Brotherhood? Just thought I'd start a topic for discussion. "
I would love to see something dedicated to the Man's place in the Pagan community here in Phoenix, but in order to have smaller specific groups there has got to be a larger "community". Sadly there isn't much of a cohesive larger community here, at least not one for any length of time.
Politics and B/S seem to tear down everything that is built for the good of the community as a whole.
Its not just pagan men who are apathetic and indifferent, its really just a modern man thing. Society has taught us that we are the providers and the disciplinarians, and the women are the nurturing ones, the softer, emotional ones.
In my family it was mom that got the church bus rolling on Sunday morning.......behind the scenes......Once we arrived it was dad that assumed control........whether he wanted to be there or not, it was his job. I think its like that in the pagan community as well, as a whole. There are always exceptions to the rule. Men have a hard time connecting and relating to each other in anything emotional, we're fine in groups and activities that require and allow us to remain emotionally disconnected from one another. That's where the macho b/s and ego come in, nobody wants to be the first one to let their guard down and show an honest emotion in front of the "brotherhood". Circle or ritual are emotional places, energies are raised and emotions opened that we aren't prepared to accept, much less deal with and embrace. With women in the circle men can follow along, remaining disconnected to a degree, in our respective comfort zone.
We have become products of our environments, trading our souls for a paycheck, intimacy for advancement, emotions for acceptance.
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Re: Pagan Men-Only Groups?
Tue, December 16, 2008 - 9:55 PMPersonally I believe that this "apathy" you speak of, is in direct response to the abusive practices of "Neo-Pagan" and/or Wiccan practitioners toward Male, or Male identified practitioners in their midst. The fact is that in ancient Gaelic/Celtic and other Earth based Native or indigenous ritualistic, Spiritual practices, the Divine Male AND the Divine Female had a FAR more balanced and BLENDED representation. I understand that in the light (Or more appropriately, the shadow) of the Violent, Separatist, and Oppressive traditions of the Patriarchal Societies that have plagued the Earth for thousands of years, the pendulum is bound to swing the opposite direction, before it finds balance.... BUT.... As a "group" of people claiming to be more "enlightened" in their thinking, one would think that this would not be necessary. Unfortunately I have witnessed this occurrence of "going to the opposite extreme" in the group that I currently circle with, and as I have of course, voiced my concerns over this, I have been met with much the same hostility, and disrespectful behaviour, as the group you mentioned in your original post. As a person who does not identify with the "binary" perspective of human gender identity, I have also run into a complete lack of "representation" of like identifying role models in the newer versions of the ancient practices. I think that a large contributing factor for the "apathetic" attitude that Pagan men have taken toward the idea of "Men's Mysteries" groups, is in fact, guilt... (Which we all know is a Christian concept by the way.... duh...!) Guilt feelings, stemming from the actions of Forefathers, and guilt related to the fact that many of them "bought into" that patriarchal mindset, themselves, before "converting" or changing their thinking in regards to societal structures, and what worked, or didn't work for them along that topic. Also the fact that even in PATRIARCHAL Societies, the "Penis is Bad" (don't you dare even MENTION testicles!!!!!) syndrome seems to be the "blindness of choice" and has been for several hundreds, if not thousands of years.... Anyway...... enough ranting. I hope that you are able to get something going, that would be in fact, a fair, and healthy representation of the Male, "place" in Spirituality. I myself am still looking for that "Neither and/or Both Mysteries" group.... -
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Re: Pagan Men-Only Groups?
Fri, December 19, 2008 - 11:00 AMI believe the best way to achieve this is to start organizing such a circle out of friends of similar interests. The problem from having been involved with several attempts of varying success to organize a men's mysteries/spirituality circle, is how do we include the women in our lives . Any male-only membership organization which ever goes public will be shot down as " sexist " or anti-woman."
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Re: Pagan Men-Only Groups?
Sun, March 22, 2009 - 10:13 PMI've spent 15 years exploring through practical experience the socialogy and mental conditioning that influence the way men relate to one another, and how the feminist agenda has impacted on men's relationships with another. As with any mental conditioning, one has to overcome the influence in order to see it for what it really is; and precious few men have done so. Pussy-whipped is the largest cult in the world. Straight men are alien to one another to prove they're pussy worthy, and that's the way women have liked it because lonely dependent men make women powerful. It's been that way ever since Queen Victoria started manipulating men toward homophobia in Scutari hospital during the Crimean war. Gay men have sold their souls for superficial sex; and so the depth of brotherhood that was once the norm for adult human males is virtually non-existent in the western world today. This is why men are so prone to addiction and abuse of power. The greatest tragedy in the world's history. We have been sacrified to an angry Goddess; yet her hunger knows no limits. Even though men are more marginalized in today's world than women have ever been, women still self-righteously impinge on men's rights, such as by further destroying the remnants of brotherhood, imagining they have done a service to their communities. It is a very dark age for men: Not because we have been deposed from a former position of power (as feminism paints the picture); but rather because we have given away our power, allowed our fundamental needs to be trampled, and don't even know it. -
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Re: Pagan Men-Only Groups?
Tue, April 14, 2009 - 6:28 AMBeautifully said!! Between being pussy-whipped and so irrationally afraid of being labeled gay, the majority of men have literally handed their balls to women on a silver platter and now have no idea how to take them back, let alone reattach them.
I'd love to see men's only groups for Pagan ritual and worship as well as many other areas within life. There is certainly nothing wrong with interaction with women, but boys, teens and men could benefit a great deal from some positive, masculine-energy interaction and bonding.
Will it ever happen in our lifetime??
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Re: Pagan Men-Only Groups?
Thu, April 16, 2009 - 2:07 PMLike so much of Pagan life, sometimes you just have to do it yourself. Out in Los Angeles, we've started a small circle, The Fellowship of the Gods, in which we study and practice ritual using God energies from our various traditions (we're a mixed circle, to put it mildly!).
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Re: Pagan Men-Only Groups?
Fri, April 17, 2009 - 7:33 PMThere is the Brotherhood of the Phoenix which is men only (and presumably mostly or exclusively gay men). There is a chapter in Chicago. I attended the spring equinox ritual and was impressed. It was the kind of communal worship which expressed earth-centered spirituality which I had been looking for.
