Love drugs

topic posted Sat, June 24, 2006 - 6:05 AM by  J.M.
I have been doing some research on scents and agents that affect people's emotions and came up with oxytocin. I know all the chemical history and what it does in the brain, where it comes from and what research has been done, but I'm interested in real world trials. So, how many of you have had experience with oxytocin? What happened? What did you expect? How did others react to you when you were using oxytocin?

Thanks for your input and your help.
posted by:
J.M.
  • Re: Love drugs

    Sat, June 24, 2006 - 8:56 AM
    Is this something that is available over the counter ? Does it come from an organic source?
    • Re: Love drugs

      Sat, June 24, 2006 - 11:48 AM
      My understanding is that it's what mothers make more of when nursing. So it's related to a caring and nurturing love rather than a more sexual love. In Greek terms more agape than eros. Probably better for sustained emotional relationships than say, testosterone. I'd suspect many of us are searching for a balance of these and more, though.
      • Re: Love drugs

        Sat, June 24, 2006 - 11:59 AM
        its a perscription pain medication, and its also a highly addictive opiate. if you want emotional connection good old fashioned MDMA is all you really need. maybe mix that with some 2CB and your set. that has tobe the emost heart opening and sexual combination known to man.
        • Re: Love drugs

          Sat, June 24, 2006 - 12:02 PM
          Not to argue, but are you sure you're not thinking of oxycontin?
          Oxytocin is a human hormone but a synthetic form is given by drip to induce labor and has some potential side effects (vomiting, low heart rate, etc., ... ). While our internal amounts may be regulated by various scents, substances and activities, since we don't ususally measure these and they don't occur in isolation, I think it would be hard to say exactly how they're effecting us.
          • Re: Love drugs

            Sat, June 24, 2006 - 12:34 PM
            Some quick research jogged my memory of an article I once read that oxytocin can increase trust (scary!). Apparently it's used intranasally by some people. I also learned that while it does play some role in sexual arousal, this generally seems to be more the case with woman than men.


            Nature. 2005 Jun 2;435(7042):673-6.

            Oxytocin increases trust in humans.

            Kosfeld M, Heinrichs M, Zak PJ, Fischbacher U, Fehr E.

            University of Zurich, Institute for Empirical Research in Economics, Blumlisalpstrasse 10, CH-8006 Zurich, Switzerland.

            Trust pervades human societies. Trust is indispensable in friendship, love, families and organizations, and plays a key role in economic exchange and politics. In the absence of trust among trading partners, market transactions break down. In the absence of trust in a country's institutions and leaders, political legitimacy breaks down. Much recent evidence indicates that trust contributes to economic, political and social success. Little is known, however, about the biological basis of trust among humans. Here we show that intranasal administration of oxytocin, a neuropeptide that plays a key role in social attachment and affiliation in non-human mammals, causes a substantial increase in trust among humans, thereby greatly increasing the benefits from social interactions. We also show that the effect of oxytocin on trust is not due to a general increase in the readiness to bear risks. On the contrary, oxytocin specifically affects an individual's willingness to accept social risks arising through interpersonal interactions. These results concur with animal research suggesting an essential role for oxytocin as a biological basis of prosocial approach behaviour.

            PMID: 15931222 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



            Neuro Endocrinol Lett. 2005 Jun;26(3):175-92.

            The Neurobiology of Love.

            Esch T, Stefano GB.

            Charite-University Medicine Berlin, Institute for General Practice and Family Medicine, Schumannstrasse 20/21, 10117 Berlin, Germany.

            Love is a complex neurobiological phenomenon, relying on trust, belief, pleasure and reward activities within the brain, i.e., limbic processes. These processes critically involve oxytocin, vasopressin, dopamine, and serotonergic signaling. Moreover, endorphin and endogenous morphinergic mechanisms, coupled to nitric oxide autoregulatory pathways, play a role. Naturally rewarding or pleasurable activities are necessary for survival and appetitive motivation, usually governing beneficial biological behaviors like eating, sex, and reproduction. Yet, a broad basis of common signaling and beneficial neurobiological features exists with connection to the love concept, thereby combining physiological aspects related to maternal, romantic or sexual love and attachment with other healthy activities or neurobiological states. Medical practice can make use of this concept, i.e., mind/body or integrative medicine. Thus, love, pleasure, and lust have a stress-reducing and health-promoting potential, since they carry the ability to heal or facilitate beneficial motivation and behavior. In addition, love and pleasure ensure the survival of individuals and their species. After all, love is a joyful and useful activity that encompasses wellness and feelings of well-being.

            PMID: 15990719 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



            Emotion. 2006 May;6(2):163-79.

            Romantic love and sexual desire in close relationships.

            Gonzaga GC, Turner RA, Keltner D, Campos B, Altemus M.

            Department of Psychology, University of California, Los Angeles, CA, US. giangonzaga@eharmony.com.

            Drawing on recent claims in the study of relationships, attachment, and emotion, the authors hypothesized that romantic love serves a commitment-related function and sexual desire a reproduction-related function. Consistent with these claims, in Study 1, brief experiences of romantic love and sexual desire observed in a 3-min interaction between romantic partners were related to distinct feeling states, distinct nonverbal displays, and commitment- and reproductive-related relationship outcomes, respectively. In Study 2, the nonverbal display of romantic love was related to the release of oxytocin. Discussion focuses on the place of romantic love and sexual desire in the literature on emotion. ((c) 2006 APA, all rights reserved).

            PMID: 16768550 [PubMed - in process]



            Bioessays. 2005 Sep;27(9):869-73.

            Peptides of love and fear: vasopressin and oxytocin modulate the integration of information in the amygdala.

            Debiec J.

            W.M. Keck Foundation Laboratory of Neurobiology, Center for Neural Science, New York University, New York, NY 10003, USA. jacek@cns.nyu.edu

            Neuropeptides vasopressin and oxytocin regulate a variety of behaviors ranging from maternal and pair bonding to aggression and fear. Their role in modulating fear responses has been widely recognized, but not yet well understood. Animal and human studies indicate the major role of the amygdala in controlling fear and anxiety. The amygdala is involved in detecting threat stimuli and linking them to defensive behaviors. This is accomplished by projections connecting the central nucleus of the amygdala (CeA) to the brain stem and to hypothalamic structures, which organize fear responses. A recent study by Huber et al demonstrates that vasopressin and oxytocin modulate the excitatory inputs into the CeA in opposite manners. Therefore this finding elucidates the mechanisms through which these neuropeptides may control the expression of fear.

            PMID: 16108061 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



            J Neuroendocrinol. 2004 Dec;16(12):1007-8.

            The neurobiology of social bonds.

            Kendrick KM.

            The Babraham Institute Cambridge, UK.

            When released in the brain through giving birth or mating, the neuropeptides oxytocin and vasopressin are involved in promoting parent-offspring and monogamous bonds in animals such as sheep and voles. Bonds are only formed in species where receptors for these neuropeptides are highly expressed in dopamine-producing reward centres. In humans, dysfunctions in these same systems can be associated with autism and, when we see people we love, these systems become activated.

            PMID: 15667456 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


            Neuroimage. 2004 Mar;21(3):1155-66. Related Articles, Links

            The neural correlates of maternal and romantic love.

            Bartels A, Zeki S.

            Wellcome Department of Imaging Neuroscience, University College London, London, UK. a.bartels@ucl.ac.uk

            Romantic and maternal love are highly rewarding experiences. Both are linked to the perpetuation of the species and therefore have a closely linked biological function of crucial evolutionary importance. Yet almost nothing is known about their neural correlates in the human. We therefore used fMRI to measure brain activity in mothers while they viewed pictures of their own and of acquainted children, and of their best friend and of acquainted adults as additional controls. The activity specific to maternal attachment was compared to that associated to romantic love described in our earlier study and to the distribution of attachment-mediating neurohormones established by other studies. Both types of attachment activated regions specific to each, as well as overlapping regions in the brain's reward system that coincide with areas rich in oxytocin and vasopressin receptors. Both deactivated a common set of regions associated with negative emotions, social judgment and 'mentalizing', that is, the assessment of other people's intentions and emotions. We conclude that human attachment employs a push-pull mechanism that overcomes social distance by deactivating networks used for critical social assessment and negative emotions, while it bonds individuals through the involvement of the reward circuitry, explaining the power of love to motivate and exhilarate.

            PMID: 15006682 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



            J Endocrinol Invest. 2003;26(3 Suppl):58-60.

            The neurobiology of attraction.

            Marazziti D, Cassano GB.

            Department of Psychiatry, Neurobiology, Pharmachology and Biotechnologies, University of Pisa, Pisa, Italy. dmarazzi@psico.med.unipi.it

            In these last years, emotions and feelings, such as attachment, couple and parental bonding and even love, typical of higher mammals, neglected for centuries by experimental sciences, have become the topic of extensive neuroscientific research in order to elucidate their biological mechanisms. Several observations have highlighted the role of monoamines and of neuropeptides, in particular oxytocin, vasopressin and opioids, but this is only the beginning of the story. Love, the most typical human feeling, can be viewed as a dynamic process that represents the result of different components probably subserved by distinct neural substrates at different times. As such, some steps can be identified, in particular its beginning, which is the process of attraction, followed by the attachment process that, in some cases, can last forever. This paper will make some general speculations on the attraction process, in the light of the experience of the Authors.

            PMID: 12834023 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



            Int J Gynaecol Obstet. 2001 Nov;75 Suppl 1:S39-45.

            New reasons and new ways to study birth physiology.

            Odent M.

            Primal Health Research Centre, London, UK.

            The age of cesarean sections on request, epidurals and drips of oxytocin is a turning point in the history of childbirth. Until recently women could not give birth without releasing a complex cocktail of 'love hormones'. Today, in many countries, most women have babies without releasing these specific hormones. The questions must be raised in terms of civilization. This turning point occurs at the very time when several scientific disciplines suggest that the way human beings are born has long-term consequences, particularly in terms of sociability, aggressiveness or, in other words, 'capacity to love'. I find it relevant to combine data provided by perspectives as diverse as ethology, animal experiments, studies of the behavioral effects of hormones that fluctuate in the perinatal period, and a branch of epidemiology I call 'Primal Health Research'. This combination of data offers new reasons to disturb the physiological processes as little as possible. We are also at a time when a physiological approach can help to rediscover the basic needs of women in labor. These women firstly need to be protected against any sort of neocortical stimulation. We must keep in mind what the main stimuli of neocortical activity are: language, bright lights, the 'feeling of being observed' and situations associated with a release of catecholamines.

            PMID: 11742641 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



            Psychoneuroendocrinology. 1998 Nov;23(8):927-44.

            Love as sensory stimulation: physiological consequences of its deprivation and expression.

            Komisaruk BR, Whipple B.

            Department of Psychology, Rutgers, State University of New Jersey, Newark 07102, USA. brk@andromeda.rutgers.edu

            For the present purpose, love is defined as one's having stimulation that one desires. The nature of the stimulation can range on a continuum from the most abstract cognitive, to the most direct sensory, forms. Thus, this definition of love encompasses having an emotional bond with a person for whom one yearns, as well as having sensory stimulation that one desires. We address some of the physiological and perceptual consequences both of having, and of not having, love. We propose a neural mechanism by which deprivation of love may generate endogenous, compensatory sensory stimulation that manifests itself as psychosomatic illness. In addition, we propose a neuroendocrine mechanism underlying sexual response and orgasm. The latter includes vaginocervical sensory pathways to the brain that can produce analgesia, release oxytocin, and/or bypass the spinal cord via the vagus nerve. We present evidence of the existence of non-genital orgasms, which suggests that genital orgasm is a special case of a more pervasive orgasmic process. Through recent studies, the mechanisms and manifestations of love and its deprivation are becoming better understood. The better is our understanding of love, the greater is our respect for the significance and potency of its role in mental and physical health.

            PMID: 9924745 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



            Psychoneuroendocrinology. 1998 Nov;23(8):837-61.

            Love: an emergent property of the mammalian autonomic nervous system.

            Porges SW.

            Institute for Child Study, University of Maryland, College Park 20742-1131, USA. sp37@umail.uml.edu

            The evolution of the autonomic nervous system provides an organizing principle to interpret the adaptive significance of mammalian affective processes including courting, sexual arousal, copulation, and the establishment of enduring social bonds. According to the Polyvagal Theory (Porges, 1995, 1996, 1997), the well-documented phylogenetic shift in the neural regulation of the autonomic nervous system passes through three stages, each with an associated behavioral strategy. The first stage is characterized by a primitive unmyelinated visceral vagus that fosters digestion and responds to threat by depressing metabolic activity. Behaviorally, the first stage is associated with immobilization behaviors. The second stage is characterized by the sympathetic nervous system that is capable of increasing metabolic output and inhibiting the visceral vagus to foster mobilization behaviors necessary for 'fight or flight'. The third stage, unique to mammals, is characterized by a myelinated vagus that can rapidly regulate cardiac output to foster engagement and disengagement with the environment. The mammalian vagus is neuroanatomically linked to the cranial nerves that regulate social engagement via facial expression and vocalization. The Polyvagal Theory provides neurobiological explanations for two dimensions of intimacy: courting and the establishment of enduring pair-bonds. Courting is dependent upon the social engagement strategies associated with the mammalian vagus. The establishment of enduring pair-bonds is dependent upon a co-opting of the visceral vagus from an immobilization system associated with fear and avoidance to an immobilization system associated with safety and trust. The theory proposes that the phylogenetic development of the mammalian vagus is paralleled by a specialized communication, via oxytocin and vasopressin, between the hypothalamus and the medullary source nuclei of the viscera vagus, which facilitates sexual arousal, copulation, and the development of enduring pair-bonds.

            PMID: 9924740 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]



            Psychoneuroendocrinology. 1998 Nov;23(8):779-818.

            Neuroendocrine perspectives on social attachment and love.

            Carter CS.

            Department of Biology, University of Maryland, College Park 20742, USA. cc11@umail.umd.edu

            The purpose of this paper is to review existing behavioral and neuroendocrine perspectives on social attachment and love. Both love and social attachments function to facilitate reproduction, provide a sense of safety, and reduce anxiety or stress. Because social attachment is an essential component of love, understanding attachment formation is an important step toward identifying the neurobiological substrates of love. Studies of pair bonding in monogamous rodents, such as prairie voles, and maternal attachment in precocial ungulates offer the most accessible animal models for the study of mechanisms underlying selective social attachments and the propensity to develop social bonds. Parental behavior and sexual behavior, even in the absence of selective social behaviors, are associated with the concept of love; the analysis of reproductive behaviors, which is far more extensive than our understanding of social attachment, also suggests neuroendocrine substrates for love. A review of these literatures reveals a recurrent association between high levels of activity in the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal (HPA) axis and the subsequent expression of social behaviors and attachments. Positive social behaviors, including social bonds, may reduce HPA axis activity, while in some cases negative social interactions can have the opposite effect. Central neuropeptides, and especially oxytocin and vasopressin have been implicated both in social bonding and in the central control of the HPA axis. In prairie voles, which show clear evidence of pair bonds, oxytocin is capable of increasing positive social behaviors and both oxytocin and social interactions reduce activity in the HPA axis. Social interactions and attachment involve endocrine systems capable of decreasing HPA reactivity and modulating the autonomic nervous system, perhaps accounting for health benefits that are attributed to loving relationships.


            PMID: 9924738 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]


            J Am Psychoanal Assoc. 1981;29(3):631-41.

            The role of breast-feeding in psychosexual development and the achievement of the genital phase.

            Sarlin CN.

            1. The role of the neurohormone oxytocin is a physiological factor in the reproductive cycle of coitus, birth, breast-feeding, the milk-ejection reflex, nipple erotism, and female sexual responsiveness. 2. The capacity for "motherliness," the attributes of empathy, consideration, confidence, and love are dependent on the level of psychosexual, ego, and superego maturity of the mother as well as on the pattern of mothering she experienced as a child. 3. The satisfaction of the oral hunger-satiation cycle is essential. Without it, even the most satisfactory maternal environment proves insufficient and results in serious ego constriction. 4. Bottle-feeding, as breast feeding, may offer a relatively satisfactory solution to the basic, physiological, hunger-satiation cycle and may fulfill, to a limited extent, the libidinal requirements of the crucial oral phase, depending on the psychosexual maturity and ego and superego development of the mother. 5. However, breast-feeding alone provides the experience of the original primal scene on which the later primal scene is based. 6. The breast-feeding capacity in itself is no more an indication that psychosexual maturity and the genital phase have been achieved than is the ability to achieve vaginal orgasm (or genital orgasm, in the male). 7. Sherfey's (1966) findings notwithstanding, Freud's (1925) statement that the elimination of clitoral primary (not participation) is essential for the development of femininity remains valid.

            PIP: Aspects of the effect on the child's development of the experience of being breastfed are discussed. The neurohormone oxytocin is a factor in coitus, birth, breastfeeding, the milk-ejection reflex, nipple erotism, and female sexual responsiveness. The attributes of empathy, consideration, confidence, and love that constitute the capacity of motherliness are dependent on the level of psychosexual, ego, and superego maturity of the mother as well as on the pattern of mothering she experienced as a child. Without satisfaction of the oral hunger-satiation cycle, serious ego constriction results regardless of maternal environment. Bottle feeding may satisfy the basic physiological hunger-satiation cycle and fulfill to some extent the libidinal requirements of the oral phase, but only breastfeeding can provide the experience of the original primal scene on which the later primal scene is based. Breastfeeding capacity in itself is not necessarily an indication however, that psychosexual maturity and the genital phase have been achieved by the mother.

            PMID: 7299034 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]
            • Re: Love drugs

              Sun, June 25, 2006 - 7:37 AM
              Women secrete oxytocin, but so do men. It is a necessary component to love and bonding and would be pretty useless if only females (or males) secreted the neuropeptide. Even women secrete testosterone and androgen, but not in the same volumes as men.
          • Re: Love drugs

            Sun, June 25, 2006 - 7:28 AM
            The drug you're talking about is Pitocin given to induce labor. Having taken Pitocin, and since I deal with it on a daily basis, there have been few instances of dangerous side effects, but those do occur over long term usage of the drug.
        • Re: Love drugs

          Sun, June 25, 2006 - 7:25 AM
          You're confusing oxytocin, a hormone secreted by the pituitary gland, with OxyContin which is an opiate.
          • Re: oxytocin

            Sun, June 25, 2006 - 8:52 AM
            Women secrete far more oxytocin than men, and is most secreted during kissing, post-coital, and during nursing (it induces the "let-down" of the mother's milk supply when the baby is ready to nurse.) Nasal oxytocin was developed for this purpose.

            It also functions to induce bonding, which is a major biologic reason why women generally have a harder time having casual sex than men do. (The other, opposite reason for men being generally more able to have casual sex is the psychologic side effect of their far higher testosterone levels, which generally distances a person from their feelings.)
            • Re: oxytocin

              Sun, June 25, 2006 - 9:58 AM
              "Women secrete oxytocin, but so do men. It is a necessary component to love and bonding and would be pretty useless if only females (or males) secreted the neuropeptide. Even women secrete testosterone and androgen, but not in the same volumes as men."

              I'm not sure if you're trying to clarify or are for some reason under the impression that someone said otherwise.

              "The drug you're talking about is Pitocin given to induce labor. Having taken Pitocin, and since I deal with it on a daily basis, there have been few instances of dangerous side effects, but those do occur over long term usage of the drug."

              Pitocin is the marketing name used (by Parke-Davis) for synthetic oxytocin.


              And thanks for your overview, Jewel!
              • Re: oxytocin

                Sun, June 25, 2006 - 11:41 AM
                "Neuropeptides vasopressin and oxytocin regulate a variety of behaviors ranging from maternal and pair bonding to aggression and fear. Their role in modulating fear responses has been widely recognized, but not yet well understood. Animal and human studies indicate the major role of the amygdala in controlling fear and anxiety. The amygdala is involved in detecting threat stimuli and linking them to defensive behaviors. This is accomplished by projections connecting the central nucleus of the amygdala (CeA) to the brain stem and to hypothalamic structures, which organize fear responses. A recent study by Huber et al demonstrates that vasopressin and oxytocin modulate the excitatory inputs into the CeA in opposite manners. Therefore this finding elucidates the mechanisms through which these neuropeptides may control the expression of fear."

                this is interesting to me... i wonder how effective this would be intreating people with schiziod personality disorder, as well as boarder line and paraniod schizopherenia.
                i work with people who are in a constant state of dellusional fears, who refuse to beleive that they are in a safe place no matter what the circumstances. they trust no one and nothing. they are in a constant state of anxiety. one of the biggest issues we have in working with them is that they dont trust you, your trying to help them, stablize them get them back on thier medication ect, and some of these neuropeptides could help releive paranioa and get them to the point of being able to actualy accept help. if they are too afraid of the therapists and doctors and nurses it can be a really traumatizing thing for them. its really sad actualy. most of the time there is a compel order from the court for them to take thier meds, so then they have to be given an IM injection by a show of force. this can be really traumatizing for both the staff and the patient. if this sort of procedure could be avaoided that would be awesome. the next time i do an education therapy session with my patients i am going to sit them down and talk with them about how thier feelings of mistrust and anxiety and fear are based on chemical imbalance. its amazing how people who are mentaly ill are often so under educated on thier own conditions.
                any way this post inspired me... sorry to kiddknapp the thread...
                blessings
                • Re: oxytocin

                  Mon, June 26, 2006 - 5:42 AM
                  It would be interesting to know if oxytocin is also absent or the levels too low in those with autism. Would definitely explain their withdrawal and difficulting in bonding. It might also help with schizoprenia and borderline personalities. I wonder if any research is being done in that area. I know this particular thread isn't about aphrodisiacs but it is interesting all the same.

                  Still, my point in asking about oxytocin isn't in talking about its medical uses but its uses as an aphrodisiac or as something when used in conjunction with an aphrodisiac would heighten the effects of the aphrodisiac and if anyone has any personal experience in using it.
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: oxytocin / autism

                    Mon, July 3, 2006 - 4:18 PM
                    I think austistics have a general sensory overload / less ability to rank/edit sensory input; so I think the anti-hug thing may be more attributable to the hug seeming too smothering than re bonding per se. (though your suggestion should certsinly be investigated as well.)

                    Most of my reading on this topic tends to lean in the diection of things like amping up / assiting an autistic's auto-cannabinoid (and related) systems, to edit out lesser-prority sensory input / increase focus.

                    I have also listened to some of the old-school / original LSD clinicians lecture about how LSD had some amazing results on some of the autistics in their care (mute autistics suddenly in conversation, etc.)

                    Interesting, that autism...
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: oxytocin

                    Fri, September 15, 2006 - 12:46 PM
                    well oxytocin stimulates bonding so I can't imagine that bonding detracts from arousal. this is a good thread
            • Re: oxytocin

              Mon, June 26, 2006 - 5:46 AM
              Women secrete oxytocin more often, but not far more levels than men. Men secrete oxytocin during orgasm and the levels are comparable to, and sometimes higher than, levels in women during orgasm. Women make more biological use of oxytocin because they are the primary caregivers and need to be able to bond with their offspring and vice versa.
            • Joe
              Joe
              offline 0
              Huh? Wha? Testosterone "generally distances a person from their feelings"? This is not only bad English but bad science. What do you base this sweeping statement on? What research can you state to support this?

              Further, your statement that one peptide (oxytocin) is responsible for why "women generally have a harder time having casual sex than men do" is quite unfounded for several reasons. First of all, I wonder why you think women have a harder time with casual sex. Most prostitutes are women, and studies show that many prostitutes enjoy sex and even have orgasms with clients, including perfect strangers. I can tell you from personal experience that many women like casual sex. I have met several women on-line (Craigslist) and had casual sex them with them. Some I still see regularly, just for sex. It's not a big deal but I believe that this is the wave of the future -sex no longer needs to be anchored in a relationship. Not that it ever did - many women have gone to bars or other venues for a long time looking for casual sex; now, it's just a lot easier because of the Internet. I think that this is a little secret (apparently, to you) because of social reasons and societal stigmas.

              As for its role in bonding, this is associated with orgasm, which is why women generally feel close to people who they have orgasms with (including one night stands). Finally, testosterone does not distant a person from (his or her) feelings. You may associate a lack of feelings with men, based on your experience in your personal life; but it is often men with low testerone who are more moody and withdrawn than men with normal testosterone levels. For a simplistic example, compare the winning team to the losing team in a game. Further, I can tell you when I have a high testosterone level, I am very friendly (especially to women, but also men, dogs, shrubs, etc).

              Actually, if you want to cite something, there is cool research saying that the most important variable in "powerful orgasms" among women is smoking. My theory is that this is because nicotine raises dopamine levels or is a dopamine agonist, and dopamine plays an important role in sexual arousal and orgasm. My source is the book "The Female Orgasm," which is now unfortunately out of print and is badly written, but it does include a lot of interesting research in its 500+ pages.
  • Re: Love drugs

    Sun, August 6, 2006 - 9:59 PM
    I've used oxytocin before. It came as a nasal spray.

    It was most effective to speed recovery after partying. 2-3 squirts and I felt mellow yet alert.

    It also was a slight pickup / socializing agent.

    Too much gave a headache.

    Nothing real spectacular for the price though and pregnant/lactating women should avoid it.

    If you have money to burn I'd say give it a try. Some people seem to enjoy it more than others, like so many things.

    I suspect it might work well with GHB since G releases oxytocin.
    • Re: Love drugs

      Mon, August 7, 2006 - 5:59 AM
      Where would one get GHB? Oxytocin is easy to obtain but it seems GHB is a controlled substance.
      • Re: Love drugs

        Mon, August 7, 2006 - 9:24 AM
        GHB can be pretty sneaky / addictive. I wouldn't recommend it.

        Not to mention, the user is not too attractive when on it (slurring, etc.)

        Not what I would call an aphrodesiac.
      • Re: Love drugs

        Mon, August 7, 2006 - 12:00 PM
        You can't get it in the US any more because it was discovered to be fun and outlawed in '99.

        But for around thirty years it was sold extensively in health food stores with zero problems.

        It has antiaging properties (it is a very potent GH releaser).
        Definate prosexual and entacogen properties in lower doses.
        Acts as a potent antidepressant and a hypnotic in higher doses.
        It also makes an effective treatment for alcoholism.

        Like any CNS deppressant it can cause problems if abused, but it is pretty forgiving if you bother to learn how to use it.

        Being illegal hasn't made it hard to come by, it just lowered the quality and gave them something else to lock people up for. :(
        • Re: Love drugs

          Wed, August 9, 2006 - 11:06 AM
          I hear you on the possible positive effects at lower doses.

          But the people I've seen ab/using it at parties, or addicted to it on an ongoing basis, were pathetic if not tragic.


          • Re: GHB ( from Erowid):

            Wed, August 9, 2006 - 11:10 AM
            "Perhaps the foremost prosexual property of GHB is disinhibition. Some users suggest that GHB's other sexual benefits are <<secondary effects>> (emphasis mine) , made possible (or at least amplified) by this loosening of psychosomatic constraint. A number of people have commented that this disinhibition is particularly marked among women."

            No offense, but this sounds a lot like the effects of alcohol, namely, loss of inhibition
          • Re: Love drugs

            Wed, August 9, 2006 - 2:20 PM
            Abuse is abuse.

            And of everything abused, alcohol is still #1 for both abuse, date rape and health concerns, by several orders of magnatude.

            There are 71 attributed deaths to GHB after it was made illegal, about a 7 year span. Zero deaths before that, about a 30 year span. There are 100,000 deaths attributed to alcohol each year.

            There are more people killed by lightning than killed by G each year. Statistically those people could have just died from other causes while they just happened to also be doing G. All of the existing scientific research said G was harmless (its a common compound in your body right now.)
            • just as a sidebar

              Wed, August 9, 2006 - 4:05 PM
              something from the rape and assault thread on the BM tribe - apparently, some guys like to dose unsuspecting women with it:

              41
              new post
              Re: Assualt and Rape on Playa?

              Today, 3:22 PM
              back to the topic at hand which is serious......

              If you plan to get your tweak on at burningman I will make a suggestion which will be very helpfull.

              Make sure you have a buddy, wingman/woman with you...Keep an eye on your friends..It's just like scuba diving or mountain climbing.back packing....If you are doing something risky, Like doubling up on pills or mixing chemical cocktails in you body you should really make sure you have somebody you trust with you while you are doing it.

              If you are travelling along you should be a bit more cautious. Especially if you are a single girl.

              Burningman is no safer than the real world...........anybody can buy a ticket...even GHB dosing frat boys.
              • Another GHB dosing sidebar (BM)

                Wed, August 9, 2006 - 4:39 PM
                new post
                Re: Assualt and Rape on Playa?
                Again from the BM tribe, on the rape and assault thread:


                Today, 4:29 PM
                There is something every year. Albeit low incident rate but still something

                my first year in 2000 there was a serial rapist, they caught him
                2004 there was someone dosing people with ghb, they caught him
                2005 (last year) there was 2 assualts by one guy and one rape by different guy both caught.

                that is all I have heard about, but does not mean there weren't any incidents in between years.
                • Re: Another GHB dosing sidebar (BM)

                  Tue, September 5, 2006 - 7:41 PM
                  Phuc Burning Scam ! When I go camping with friends it's to get away from yuppies in RVs not to camp with thousands of them ! BM - celebrating 20 years of contributing to Global Warming, good job.
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