Trey,

While it is true that all books of knowledge, lead us to a better understanding of all things. They can not guide us as an individual. We are unique. Specific to our environment. Surrounded by others of the same condition. Similar enough to gain a better, clearer understanding of all things through the books of knowledge and interaction with each other.

While I read books of Tao, I see answers which bare themselves out through observation and introspection. But, they are not a map or instruction in what we do next. Some can see a path that will then need to be experienced. Those experiences are not foreseen so much as we know that we will have to turn left soon on the road, not who will be there or what will happen specifically. We must use the knowledge we gain to have an experience worthy of ourselves. To make better decisions based on the acquired knowledge and experiences along the path.

You mention your concerns for yourself, your questions of continuing on this painful path or getting out now. I believed in those ideas. Once, I was stubborn enough to consider it deeply (maybe twice). Later, I realized my choice was a test. A lesson we all face at one time or another. Religion says you must live to fight evil, profess true religion, or fulfill the book. Society says you must live to give, make a living, or support your family. We could go on, my point is once we have overcome those feelings and moved past whatever it was that bought us there. We discover a new life shaped by our acceptance and application of knowledge and experience.

My expectations have led me to painful and disagreeable findings. My experience has shown me that I was expecting to see it, and that's what I found. I can now look forward or back and see that things will indeed be painful and joyous, disagreeable and fortunate. All at the same time. It is what I dwell on that brings me the experience. Not the book, or the person, but how I choose to interpret it.

Our experiences are why we are here. Your feelings will teach you much. Going through the motions is part of what this human/animal life is. What spirit would come to this life and expect to not feel the pleasure of life, the knowledge of death, and the recognition of struggle for survival? You are moving forward simply by feeling and expressing your thinking. Leave death, "the carrot on the stick" and let it be your pillow at the end. If that is what will drive you to be what it is you dream to be.

Trey, I am sorry this doesn't answer your questions. It's just as vague as everything else out there. I do hope however, that you and I can continue exploring the experiences that make up our lives. With the tribe as a sounding board we can see how Religion, Society, and Interaction can be wonderful experiences and guides to life.

Peace: it does not mean to be in a place where there is no noise, trouble or hard work. It means to be in the midst of those things and still be calm in your heart.

The point of the Tao (or any other philosophy or belief system) isn't to take away all of your problems. It's to give you tools for dealing with them. It's to learn to know yourself, and be in tune with yourself, because you have all the answers, you just have to know how to access them.

Also, we have a tendancy to create our own problems. There was one day I was at work, and I was incredibly stressed. A friend of mine came in, and asked what I was doing. I said "I'm trying to have a good day. I'm trying really hard." And he said "If you're trying, you're pushing it away." And instantly, the day transformed. I stopped "trying" and simply allowed things to flow as they would, and allowed myself to flow with them. It made all the difference in the world.

Chapter 48: In the pursuit of learning, every day something is acquired.
In the pursuit of Tao, every day something is dropped.

Less and less is done
Until non-action is achieved.
When nothing is done, nothing is left undone.

The world is ruled by letting things take their course.
It connot be ruled by interfering.

As far as losing your self through the Tao goes, it doesn't happen. Your nature is your nature. Often, in our daily lives, we don't respect and honor our natures; we actually work against them.

Chapter 51: All things arise from Tao.
They are nourished by Virtue.
They are formed from matter.
They are shaped by environment.
Thus the ten thousand things all respect Tao and honor Virtue.
Respect of Tao and honor of Virtue are not demanded,
But they are in the nature of things.

Therefore all things arise from Tao.
By Virtue they are nourished,
Developed, cared for,
Sheltered, comforted,
Grown, and protected.

Creating without claiming,
Doing without taking credit,
Guiding without interfering,
This is Primal Virtue.

"Or how to deal with dissapoinment and unfullfilled desires, that you cannot really control because it is part of your biology"

Personally I say embrace your biology, you will in the end find those who understand & accept. Your biology is perfect in it's creation.

I suppose I follow the Tao in part to learn I do not have to strive toward the expectations of others& to be the kindness I wish to see in the world.....not to ignore that I was born in a body & have desires....I realise not everyone views things in the way that I do though.

I do know how it feels to be suicidally depressed & I do know things do get better.
Peace & blessings.

Hi, just a few thoughts. Perhaps the problem is that over, and over you have expectations, and you make judgements. Letting go of these can lead to finding the Way. "But the tao never speaks of what to do when your feeling like killing yourself." Actually it does. Feelings arise, just as do thoughts, and there is nothing wrong with this. The fault comes when we judge these thoughts, and feelings, and feel that they must lead to action. I'm a recovering alcoholic, (23 years sober), and when I stopped drinking, all these repressed feelings came to fore. "Isn't this interesting. I want to kill my boss." I learned to watch my feelings, without holding on to them, and without feeding it energy, or acting on them. I learned to accept the feeling without feeling guilty, and to ask myself, what is going on, that is triggering this feeling, and finally, what can I learn about myself from this experience.

In your writing, over, and over, you are making judgments, about feelings and expectations in your life.

"And it is to find happiness" Following the Tao isn't about finding happiness. Happiness is a judgment about your feelings, and whether they're good or bad. "I'm Happy, oops, now I'm sad. Oop, now I'm angry, and why can't I be happy. I was just a minute ago. Boy, I must be doing sumptin wrong. Failing. Not steping up. Dumb shit. Boy, I just need to "understand what is written and put it into practice to rescue myself from the arrows of misfortune." All this is a trap. If you strive for happiness, or wealth, or success, you're doomed to failure, because no matter where you are, or what you attain, it's going to change. The I Ching, (The Book of Changes) is the sister of the Tao te Ching. It teaches that life is like a ferris wheel. If your life, your feelings, are headed up, don't judge it, or get to wrapped up in it, because, its the Way, that you're going to be coming down the other side. And if you're heading down and crashing, don't get wrapped up in sadness and despair, because soon, the wheel will turn, and you'll be heading back up.

Rather then happiness, following the Tao can lead to serenity, contentment, acceptance. As the events in your life unfold, and that includes feelings, don't judge them. See them like water, don't control them, allow them to unfold. And PAY ATTENTION! Through synchronicity, the Tao will tell you whether you are followiing the Way. If the light is red, you stop, don't judge, "damn light, gonna be late.", when it turns green, you go. When there is garbage in your house, take it out. And when you meet another. allow them to be who they are. Don't have expectations. "Is she going to like me, hows my breath, what should I say." Just smile, look them in the eyes, and allow yourself to flow. And PAY ATTENTION. You may find, over time, that more of your lights are turning green.

Following the Tao is realizing, that while the world is real, it is part of a higher reality, and when we act in this world, we are part of a universe that is seeking to unfold, just as we are. We are connected to that whole, and when we walk our true way, we are part of a dancing Universe. When you dance, you are not hurrying to get to the last step. Rather, for each moment in time, feel the flow and go with it.

Good Journeys, Way

Hah.

Maybe taoism just isnt for you.
Thats what i think about. Its for some people, and it isnt for others.
Just like life.

If your not happy with it, find something that will make you happy.
Dosnt matter what it is.
Though i disagree to some extent about what you said that:

"But the tao never speaks of what to do when your feeling like killing yourself.
Or how to deal with dissapoinment and unfullfilled desires, that you cannot really control because it is part of your biology.
It doesn't seem to adress chronic dissapointment in life"

Because i have read some books that say otherwise.
Such as my book im reading "everyday tao" by Deng ming dao.
It simply suggests, that if something seems to not go your way... CHANGE!
If its a negative or positive consequence, that depends on the situation and
everything else involved.
Everything changes, in order to live in this world, you have to adapt.
That is key to survival, animals do it, insects, plants etc.


But this is just my opinion, if something dosnt work for you, try another, until you
find something that suits you.

"If I were to follow the Tao as best I could I would not be able to express myself.
I would cease being me... "
what is me?
this is good... to cease being what you Think you are, and become what you truley are.
channel your energy up your spine! kundalini yoga! the yoga of awareness
try reiki
there are many differnt paths that all lead to the same happiness THAT ALREADY EXISTS inside you!
Your ultimate goal is to be happy. Where is that happiness? Within you. If you want to have permanent happiness, it will never come from outside. If somebody makes you happy today, the same person will make you unhappy tomorrow. You are happiness and peace personified. Find that happiness and peace within you."

—His Holiness Sri Swami Satchidananda

swamisatchidananda.org/docs2/...ppy.htm
what you are seeking already exists
it is already the case
seeking is the hinderance
because seeking is in the mind
and the point is going out of the mind
seeking takes you away from this moment, here
i think you would like osho
satchidananda is powerful also

one love

i don't think that you are looking for the answer, or any answers.

you are looking for something to make you happy. you expect it to be wonderful. you look everywhere but could not find one. you will never find what make you happy.

you don't need love to make you happy. you don't need fame to make you happy. you don't need recognition or affirmation to make you happy.

you only happy when you are happy with yourself, or just simply happy.


that's what the sage would say.

One day a farmers best horse ran away. Many of his friends came to him and expressed "What a shame your best horse ran away." To which the farmer replied "Maybe."
Some time later the horse returned and the farmers friends remarked how fortunate it was for him that his horse returned. To which the farmer replied "Maybe."
One day the farmers son was riding the horse and fell off and broke his leg. The farmers friends remarked "How unfortunate that your son has broken his leg and will be unable to help you with your work." To which the farmer replied "Maybe."
A few days later the army came by and was inducting all the young men into the army. The farmers friends commented how fortunate it was for him that his son was not taken away by the army because his leg was broken, to which the farmer replied "Maybe."

Perhaps you should look for equanimity, rather than happiness.