"When the people fear their government, there is Tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is Liberty." - Thomas Jefferson


"You only have the freedoms you are willing to fight and die for." - Thomas Jefferson


"It is natural for man to indulge in the illusions of hope. We are apt to shut our eyes against a painful truth, and listen to the song of that siren till she transforms us into beasts... For my part, whatever anguish of spirit it may cost, I am willing to know the whole truth, to know the worst, and to provide for it." - Patrick Henry


"When even one American -- who has done nothing wrong -- is forced by fear to shut his mind and close his mouth, then all Americans are in peril." - Harry S. Truman


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public." - Theodore Roosevelt


"We the People are the rightful masters of both congress and the courts -- not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution." - Abraham Lincoln


"America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves." - Abraham Lincoln


"I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth, they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts." - Abraham Lincoln


"Find out just what the people will submit to and you have found out the exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them; and these will continue until they are resisted with either words or blows, or with both. The limits of tyrants are prescribed by the endurance of those whom they oppress." - Frederick Douglass, American patriot, Aug. 4, 1857


"...the high office of the President has been used to foment a plot to destroy the American's freedom, and before I leave office, I must inform the citizens of this plight." - John F. Kennedy (November 12, 1963, Columbia U, 10 days before his assassination)
posted by:
  • Re: Have Americans lost America?

    Fri, May 16, 2008 - 8:44 PM
    "Allow the president to invade a neighboring nation, whenever he shall deem it necessary to repel an invasion, and you allow him to do so whenever he may choose to say he deems it necessary for such a purpose — and you allow him to make war at pleasure." - Abraham Lincoln
    • Re: Have Americans lost America?

      Sat, May 17, 2008 - 5:40 AM
      "does anyone remember laughter?"

      ~robert plant
      • Ln
        Ln
        offline 98

        Re: Have Americans lost America?

        Mon, May 19, 2008 - 6:58 AM
        Those who would sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.
        Benjamin Franklin

        Quote I found in the publicity for the film America Freedom to Fascism

        www.freedomtofascism.com

        Laughter is important, yes. I didn't know that Robert Plant was American;)
        • Re: Have Americans lost America?

          Mon, May 19, 2008 - 9:40 PM
          Though the first sign that demography has taken hold is a refusal to laugh at its dogma's shortcomings in implementation within the real world...
          • Re: Have Americans lost America?

            Tue, May 20, 2008 - 1:01 PM
            Hadn't they lost it a long time ago?



            I see no reason why Indians who can give satisfactory proof of having by their own labor supported their families for a number of years, and who are willing to detach themselves from their tribal relations, should not be admitted to the benefit of the homestead act and the privileges of citizenship, and I recommend the passage of a law to that effect.
            It will be an act of justice as well as a measure of encouragement.

            Rutherford B. Hayes, December 3, 1877

  • Re: Have Americans lost America?

    Wed, May 21, 2008 - 3:48 AM
    I believe that America or American democracy was taken from Americans on November 22, 1963. We were complicit with the corporations that control the military industrial complex and other American "business interests" for not rising up in defense of the US Constitution. The economy needs war in order to prosper and grow. This is not only tragic, but criminal, in my view.

    ***********************
    "A highwayman is as much a robber when he plunders in a gang as when single; and a nation that makes an unjust war is only a great gang." - Benjamin Franklin


    "It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so." - Mark Twain
  • Re: Have Americans lost America?

    Wed, May 21, 2008 - 3:53 AM
    "Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky


    "Everybody's worried about stopping terrorism. Well, there's a really easy way: stop participating in it." - Noam Chomsky


    "Propaganda is to a democracy what the bludgeon is to a totalitarian state." - Noam Chomsky


    "The more you can increase fear of drugs and crime, welfare mothers, immigrants and aliens, the more you control all the people." - Noam Chomsky
    • Re: Have Americans lost America?

      Wed, May 21, 2008 - 2:55 PM
      In may ways most aspects of Representative Democracy in the US was never anything but a Plutocracy. Were just all the more aware of it today and all the more numb to it...
      • Ln
        Ln
        offline 98

        Re: Have Americans lost America?

        Fri, May 23, 2008 - 3:52 PM
        What is objectionable, what is dangerous about extremists is not that they are extreme, but that they are intolerant. The evil is not what they say about their cause, but what they say about their opponents.

        -Robert F. Kennedy
        • Re: Have Americans lost America?

          Fri, May 23, 2008 - 8:04 PM
          "No country can be well governed unless its citizens as a body keep religiously before their minds that they are the guardians of the law, and that the law officers are only the machinery for its execution, nothing more."-- The Gilded Age/Twain.

          Thanks for making me brush up on my favorite American writer Torrid.May the pendulum of sanity swing back sooner than later.
  • Re: Have Americans lost America?

    Sat, May 24, 2008 - 7:10 AM
    "Dissent is the highest form of patriotism." - Howard Zinn
    • Re: Have Americans lost America?

      Sat, May 24, 2008 - 11:47 AM
      "I realize that patriotism alone is not enough,i must have no hatred or bitterness towards anyone." Edith Cavell.

      After reading this quote i did some Edith(Piaf was named after this person,)Cavell Wikipedia-ing.Unfortunately she was used in the media/propaganda machine.
      I did think the quote ,and there are many others i could copy,agrees more with the question wether Americans loss of America or any form of patriotism as i see it is valid.

      www.diggerhistory.info/pages-...ell.htm
      • Re: Have Americans lost America?

        Sat, May 24, 2008 - 11:54 AM


        “A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government.”
        Edward Abbey quotes (American Writer whose works, set primarily in the southwestern United States, reflect an uncompromising environmentalist philosophy. 1927-1989)




        “Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.”
        Mark Twain quotes (American Humorist, Writer and Lecturer. 1835-1910)




        “Patriotism is your conviction that this country is superior to all other countries because you were born in it.”
        George Bernard Shaw quotes (Irish literary Critic, Playwright and Essayist. 1925 Nobel Prize for Literature, 1856-1950)



        “Patriotism is the virtue of the vicious.”
        Oscar Wilde quotes (Irish Poet, Novelist, Dramatist and Critic, 1854-1900)




        “Dissent is the highest form of patriotism.”(Sorry for the repeat but i think it's a worthwile one)

        Anand_Singh Howard Zinn quotes (American Historian, Author, Professor and Political activist, b.1922)



        “You're not supposed to be so blind with patriotism that you can't face reality. Wrong is wrong, no matter who says it.”
        Malcolm X quotes (American black militant leader who articulated concepts of race pride and black nationalism in the early 1960s, 1925-1965)


        “Patriotism is the last refuge of the scoundrel.”
        Samuel Johnson quotes (English Poet, Critic and Writer. 1709-1784)



        “If you can't get them to salute when they should salute and wear the clothes you tell them to wear, how are you going to get them to die for their country?”
        General George S. Patton quotes (American General in World War I and II, 1885-1945)


        “Patriotism is a pernicious, psychopathic form of idiocy”
        George Bernard Shaw quotes (Irish literary Critic, Playwright and Essayist. 1925 Nobel Prize for Literature, 1856-1950)
        • Re: Have Americans lost America?

          Sun, May 25, 2008 - 9:16 AM
          "Life moves on, whether we act as cowards or heroes. Life has no other discipline to impose, if we would but realize it, than to accept life unquestioningly. Everything we shut our eyes to, everything we run away from, everything we deny, denigrate or despise, serves to defeat us in the end. What seems nasty, painful, evil, can become a source of beauty, joy, and strength, if faced with an open mind. Every moment is a golden one for him who has the vision to recognize it as such.”

          Henry Miller
          • Re: Have Americans lost America?

            Sun, May 25, 2008 - 12:25 PM
            America's founders on religion and separation of church and state:


            "Whenever we read the obscene stories, the voluptuous debaucheries, the cruel and torturous executions, the unrelenting vindictiveness, with which more than half the Bible is filled, it would be more consistent that we called it the word of a demon, than the word of God. It is a history of wickedness, that has served to corrupt and brutalize mankind." - Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

            "Question with boldness even the existence of a god." - Thomas Jefferson (letter to Peter Carr, 10 August 1787)

            "When a Religion is good, I conceive it will support itself; and when it does not support itself, and God does not take care to support it so that its Professors are obliged to call for help of the Civil Power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one." - Benjamin Franklin (from a letter to Richard Price, October 9, 1780;)

            I do not believe in the creed professed by the Jewish church, by the Roman church, by the Greek church, by the Turkish church, by the Protestant church, nor by any church that I know of... Each of those churches accuse the other of unbelief; and for my own part, I disbelieve them all."- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason, 1794-1795.)

            "Is uniformity attainable? Millions of innocent men, women, and children, since the introduction of Christianity, have been burnt, tortured, fined, imprisoned; yet we have not advanced one inch towards uniformity. What has been the effect of coercion? To make one half the world fools and the other half hypocrites. To support roguery and error all over the earth." - Thomas Jefferson (Notes on Virginia, 1782; from George Seldes, ed., The Great Quotations, Secaucus, New Jersey: Citadel Press, 1983, p. 363.)

            "During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity; in both, superstition, bigotry and persecution." - James Madison (Memorial and Remonstrance against Religious Assessments, 1785.)

            "Where do we find a precept in the Bible for Creeds, Confessions, Doctrines and Oaths, and whole carloads of other trumpery that we find religion encumbered with in these days?" - John Adams

            "The civil rights of none shall be abridged on account of religious belief or worship, nor shall any national religion be established, nor shall the full and equal rights of conscience be in any manner, or on any pretence, infringed.'' - James Madison, Original wording of the First Amendment; Annals of Congress 434 (June 8, 1789). [and what a shame this wasn't kept!]

            "As the Government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and as the said States never have entered into any war or act of hostility against any Mehomitan nation, it is declared by the parties that no pretext arising from religious opinions shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries." - (Treaty of Tripoli, 1797 - signed by President John Adams.)

            "As to religion, I hold it to be the indispensable duty of government to protect all conscientious protesters thereof, and I know of no other business government has to do therewith." - Thomas Paine (Common Sense, 1776.)
          • Re: Have Americans lost America?

            Sun, May 25, 2008 - 2:44 PM
            Wow Leelen,that was beautiful.
            I keep reading the headline of this post,today is memorial-day and my thought was"How many Americans has America lost?"

            I just heard Ed Asner (amidst 4000 crosses on Santa Monica beach )reciting Samuel Clemens/Twain about the Philipine-Spanish war. a 100 years ago.It still applies today.
            kpfk.org/programs/prog...gton-west.html
            • Re: Have Americans lost America?

              Sun, May 25, 2008 - 3:11 PM
              And not to be too stuck on the American land,some interesting quotes,i love the Julius Ceasar one!



              Albert Einstein
              The ruling class has the schools and press under its thumb. This enables it to sway the emotions of the masses.

              John F. Hylan
              The real menace of our Republic is the invisible government which like a giant octopus sprawls its slimy legs over our cities states and nation. At the head is a small group of banking houses generally referred to as 'international bankers.' This little coterie... run our government for their own selfish ends. It operates under cover of a self-created screen...[and] seizes...our executive officers... legislative bodies... schools... courts... newspapers and every agency created for the public protection.

              John Adams
              Remember, democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet that did not commit suicide.

              Marcus Tullius Cicero
              A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear.

              American Mercury Magazine
              The invisible Money Power is working to control and enslave mankind. It financed Communism, Fascism, Marxism, Zionism and Socialism. All of these are directed to making the United States a member of World Government.

              Justice Hugo L. Black
              The Press was protected so that it could bare the secrets of the government and inform the people. Only a free and unrestrained press can effectively expose deception in government. And paramount among the responsibilities of a free press is the duty to prevent any part of the government from deceiving the people.

              Justice Felix Frankfurter
              The real rulers in Washington are invisible and exercise power from behind the scenes

              Samuel Adams
              If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any natural right, the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of Almighty God, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave.

              Charles A. Lindbergh
              This Act (the Federal Reserve Act, Dec. 23rd 1913) establishes the most gigantic trust on earth. When the President (Woodrow Wilson) signs the Bill, the invisible government of the Monetary Power will be legalised... The worst legislative crime of the ages is perpetrated by this banking and currency Bill.

              James Madison
              History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling the money and its issuance.

              Maxwell Anderson
              When a government takes over a people's economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.

              Mayer Amschel Rothschild
              Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes the laws.

              Spiro Agnew
              The American people should be made aware of the trend toward monopolization of the great public information vehicles and the concentration of more and more power over public opinion in fewer and fewer hands.

              Thomas Jefferson
              If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their money, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them (around the banks), will deprive the people of their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered.

              Donald Alexander
              We now have so many regulations that everyone is guilty of some violation.

              Alan Barth
              The notion that the church, the press, and the universities should serve the state is essentially a Communist notion. In a free society these institutions must be wholly free ­ which is to say that their function is to serve as checks upon the state.

              Lord Acton
              Power tends to corrupt, and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

              Gaius Julius Caesar
              Beware of the leader, who strikes the war drum in order to transfer the citizens into patriotic glow, patriotism is indeed a double-sided sword. It makes the blood so boldly, like it constricts the intellect. And if the striking of the war drum reached a fiebrige(firebridge?) height and the blood is cooking and hating, and the intellect is dismissed, the leader doesn't need to reject the citizens rights. The citizens, cought by anxiety and blinded through patriotism, will subordinate all their rights to the leader and this even with happy courage. Why do I know that? I know it, because this is, what I did. And I am Gajus Julius Cäsar.

              Franklin D. Roosevelt
              The real truth of the matter is, as you and I know, that a financial element in the large centers has owned the government of the U.S. since the days of Andrew Jackson.

              Niccolo Machiavelli
              Thus it happens in matters of state; for knowing afar off (which it is only given a prudent man to do) the evils that are brewing, they are easily cured. But when, for want of such knowledge, they are allowed to grow so that everyone can recognize them, there is no longer any remedy to be found.

              Sir Winston Churchill
              The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.

              Napoleon Bonaparte
              When a government is dependent upon bankers for money, they and not the leaders of the government control the situation, since the hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain.

              Louis Freeh
              Ask the American public if they want an FBI wiretap and they'll say, "no." If you ask them do they want a feature on their phone that helps the FBI find their missing child they'll say, "Yes."

              Henry Brooks Adams
              Politics, as a practise, whatever its professions, has always been the systematic organization of hatreds.

              H. L. Birum, Sr.
              The Federal Reserve Bank is nothing but a banking fraud and an unlawful crime against civilization. Why? Because they "create" the money made out of nothing, and our Uncle Sap Government issues their "Federal Reserve Notes" and stamps our Government approval with NO obligation whatever from these Federal Reserve Banks, Individual Banks or National Banks, etc.

              Josh Billings
              The trouble with most folks isn't so much their ignorance, as knowing so many things that ain't so.

              Edmund Burke
              To govern according to the sense and agreement of the interests of the people is a great and glorious object of governance. This object cannot be obtained but through the medium of popular election, and popular election is a mighty evil.

              Henry Ford
              It is well enough that people of the nation do not understand our banking and monetary system, for if they did, I believe there would be a revolution before tomorrow morning.

              Thomas Jefferson
              If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.

              Alexander Hamilton
              The President of the United States would be liable to be impeached, tried, and upon conviction of treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors, removed from office; and would afterwards be liable to prosecution and punishment in the ordinary course of law.

              Grace Commission
              100% of what is collected is absorbed solely by interest on the Federal Debt ... all individual income tax revenues are gone before one nickel is spent on the services taxpayers expect from government.

              Robert A. Heinlein
              Secrecy is the beginning of tyranny.

              Andrew Carnegie
              I choose free libraries as the best agencies for improving the masses of the people, because they give nothing for nothing. They only help those who help themselves. They never pauperize. They reach the aspiring and open to these chief treasures of the world -- those stored up in books. A taste for reading drives out lower tastes.

              William Lyon Mackenzie King
              Once a nation parts with the control of its currency and credit, it matters not who makes the nations laws. Usury, once in control, will wreck any nation. Until the control of the issue of currency and credit is restored to government and recognized as its most sacred responsibility, all talk of the sovereignty of parliament and of democracy is idle and futile.

              Lord Acton
              Everything secret degenerates, even the administration of justice; nothing is safe that does not show how it can bear discussion and publicity.

              Samuel Adams
              A general dissolution of the principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy.... While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but once they lose their virtue, they will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.... If virtue and knowledge are diffused among the people, they will never be enslaved. This will be their great security.



              Charles-Louis De Secondat
              There is no crueler tyranny than that which is perpetrated under the shield of law and in the name of justice.

              James Madison
              The strongest passions and most dangerous weaknesses of the human breast; ambition, avarice, vanity, the honorable or venal love of fame, are all in conspiracy against the desire and duty of peace.

              Edmund Burke
              Tell me what are the prevailing sentiments that occupy the minds of your young peoples, and I will tell you what is to be the character of the next generation.

              Justice Louis D. Brandeis
              Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a law breaker, it breeds contempt for the law.

              Charles-Louis De Secondat
              The deterioration of every government begins with the decay of the principles on which it was founded.

              Robert A. Heinlein
              In a society in which it is a moral offense to be different from your neighbor your only escape is to never let them find out.

              Justice Louis D. Brandeis
              The government is the potent omnipresent teacher. For good or ill it teaches the whole people by its example. Crime is contagious. If the government becomes a lawbreaker, it breeds contempt for law; it invites every man to become a law unto himself; it invites anarchy. To declare that the end justifies the means -- to declare that the government may commit crimes -- would bring terrible retribution.

              Buddha
              Believe nothing merely because you have been told it. Do not believe what your teacher tells you merely out of respect for the teacher. But whatsoever, after due examination and analysis, you find to be kind, conducive to the good, the benefit, the welfare of all beings -- that doctrine believe and cling to, and take it as your guide.

              Justice Robert H. Jackson
              I cannot say that our country could have no secret police without becoming totalitarian, but I can say with great conviction that it cannot become totalitarian without a centralized national police.

              John Adams
              Be not intimidated... nor suffer yourselves to be wheedled out of your liberties by any pretense of politeness, delicacy, or decency. These, as they are often used, are but three different names for hypocrisy, chicanery and cowardice.

              Bertrand Barere de Vieuzac
              The tree of liberty only grows when watered by the blood of tyrants.

              Lyndon B. Johnson
              Every man should know that his conversations, his correspondence, and his personal life are private.

              Justice Louis D. Brandeis
              Experience should teach us to be most on our guard to protect liberty when the Government's purposes are beneficent. Men born to freedom are naturally alert to repel invasion of their liberty by evil-minded rulers. The greatest dangers to liberty lurk in insidious encroachment by men of zeal, well-meaning but without understanding.

              Samuel Adams
              The liberties of our country, the freedom of our civil Constitution, are worth defending at all hazards; and it is our duty to defend them against all attacks. We have received them as a fair inheritance from our worthy ancestors: they purchased them for us with toil and danger and expense of treasure and blood, and transmitted them to us with care and diligence. It will bring an everlasting mark of infamy on the present generation, enlightened as it is, if we should suffer them to be wrested from us by violence without a struggle, or to be cheated out of them by the artifices of false and designing men.

              Frank Dane
              Get all the fools on your side and you can be elected to anything.

              Lord Acton
              The issue which has swept down the centuries and which will have to be fought sooner or later is the people versus the banks.

              Samuel Adams
              How strangely will the Tools of a Tyrant pervert the plain Meaning of Words!

              Thomas Jefferson
              Yes, we did produce a near-perfect republic. But will they keep it? Or will they, in the enjoyment of plenty, lose the memory of freedom? Material abundance without character is the path of destruction.

              W. Lance Bennett
              Perhaps the most obvious political effect of controlled news is the advantage it gives powerful people in getting their issues on the political agenda and defining those issues in ways likely to influence their resolution.

              Vance Packard
              The most common characteristic of all police states is intimidation by surveillance. Citizens know they are being watched and overheard. Their mail is being examined. Their homes can be invaded.

              Maxwell Anderson
              When a government takes over a people's economic life it becomes absolute, and when it has become absolute it destroys the arts, the minds, the liberties and the meaning of the people it governs.

              Kort E. Patterson
              According to Gestapo records they had little need to engage in direct spying on the citizens since the citizens themselves were more than willing to do their spying for them.

              Samuel Adams
              If men, through fear, fraud, or mistake, should in terms renounce or give up any natural right, the eternal law of reason and the grand end of society would absolutely vacate such renunciation. The right to freedom being the gift of Almighty God, it is not in the power of man to alienate this gift and voluntarily become a slave.

              Clint Eastwood
              At Waco, was there really an urgency to get those people out of the compound at that particular time? Was the press going to make it look heroic for the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms? At Ruby Ridge, there was one guy in a cabin at the top of the mountain. Was it necessary for federal agents to go up there and shoot a 14-year-old in the back and shoot a woman with a child in her arms? What kind of mentality does that?




              • Ln
                Ln
                offline 98

                Re: Have Americans lost America?

                Sat, May 31, 2008 - 5:15 PM
                "As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
                H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)
                • Re: Have Americans lost America?

                  Sat, May 31, 2008 - 10:04 PM
                  >>>>"As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."
                  H.L. Mencken (1880 - 1956)<<<<


                  LOL!!!!!!!!! Well, glory be. This means w've been living in a perfect democracy for eight years now. Somehow it had escaped my attention, though.... Perhaps, my wits are growing dull. The time could be near for me to run for president.

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