graf gets no props

topic posted Sun, February 22, 2004 - 4:58 PM by  lord
i'm a former graffitti artist from n.y. once i expanded beyond the realm of graf, i realized how graffitti gets no respect as an art form from most other artist.(not all, but alotof them) i would tell people that my background is in graf and i'd get either the look of digust or just looking down on me in general because in there eyes "it's not really art it's vandalism". and vandalism it can be, but in my eyes it's art first.
posted by:
lord
New Jersey
  • Re: graf gets no props

    Mon, February 23, 2004 - 11:23 AM
    in the proper venue it is an art....I once actually paid a tagger I knew in high school to tag a model railroad subway car for me.
    In the meantime....if its on someones wall without their permission, or on a subway car so you know damn well theres not even a POSSIBLE shread of permssion....as wonderful as some of it is...it is...without a doubt...vandalism.
    • Re: graf gets no props

      Mon, February 23, 2004 - 12:52 PM
      sometimes the canvas is just right tho. there are different kinds of graff atists. i was one for a while until the law caught up with me.
      but its like, when i went out, i was looking for a fitting wall and perfectly slanted stair case, and then make the art fit the frame, and even deeper, fit the suroundings, if it is in a crack neighborhood make it relative, if it was in downtown hustle and bustle 9-5 make it fit also. i dont know, maybe im just trying to justify my crimes. but either way. plus i know its amazing to see something painted that looks like it could have taken an hour to paint, in a spot that looks impossible to get to or impossible not to be seen at. that's something you can never capture on a piece of stretched canvas or pad of paper.

      and a side note, i do not see ANYTHING wrong with painting on trains..its definately not hurting anyone, and it surely isnt hurting the burlington northern & santa fe buisness or sales. its prettier that an ugly banged up old rusty freight car. you can make it look like new with a fresh coat of paint.
      some truely amazing are on the freights, when you have endless hours laid up in the woods the possibilities are endless :)
      • Re: graf gets no props

        Mon, February 23, 2004 - 1:43 PM
        <<and a side note, i do not see ANYTHING wrong with painting on trains..its definately not hurting anyone>>

        doesnt matter.

        But in the setting of the NYC subway...both in public and non public areas...it DID hurt people. Over the years numerous taggers were killed or seriously injured by moving trains. Employees doing their jobs in trying to apprehend taggers were assaulted. Thats physical injury. And do you have any idea what kind of money got sunk into removal efforts and security measures? And ya waanna guess where that money came from?

        And MY pet peeve....the taggers were painting over the vintage (Im talking up to 1904 vintage in some cases) mosiacs in some parts of the system in their pursuit of *art*. No artist worthy of legitimate recognition and acceptance would DREAM of damaging something like that.

        So yeah...at least in this case it WAS hurting someone.
        • Re: graf gets no props

          Mon, February 23, 2004 - 7:26 PM
          for 1, i was talking about freight trains, not passenger or mass transits or monorails. just freights. and, its not a rail workers job to chase a tagger, so they are making that decision, just like it was the many graffiti artist's choice to run down the tracks, and end up soldered to the rail.
          i dont think painting over old art is ever good. it probably started with a few bad eggs messing up the original stuff and eventually they all go over each other.
          eh who cares, i think it is art. just

          again tho, i dont think there is anything wrong with paiting freight trains. if someone happens to mis step and get hit or fall then that is a mistake that happens. part of the risk i guess.
          • Re: graf gets no props

            Mon, February 23, 2004 - 7:27 PM
            just like a base jumper missing his spot and getting tangled up. he is still a extreme sportsman
            • Re: graf gets no props

              Mon, February 23, 2004 - 7:27 PM
              an illegal base jumper i mean
              • Unsu...
                 

                Alot of love to graffiti artists worldwide!

                Tue, March 2, 2004 - 2:00 AM
                Vandalizing since 1991...,
                Spredding my culture since 1995.

                Booboo*one*2004........................


                Graffiti*Overthrow(GO)United*Aerosol*Empire(UAE)
                Freedom*Funk All Elementz krew...

                artcrimes.com
                • nice site...honestly. I especially liked the photo of the two NYC vandals in body bags.
                  My heart bleeds. Cuz after those two dodos got themselves splattered, someone like *ME* had to risk getting hurt dragging their bodies out.

                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
                    ok, but it was still something they chose to do so you can't be mad at them for hurting themselves, disapointed yea i suppose. Who takes the bodies out? firefighters? if that's the case then again, they signed up for that job, and they chose to do that. Same deal if you are dragging some kid out of a house he lit on fire while burning a barbie doll.
                    Are you a firefighter? i appreciate your work if you are.
        • Re: graf gets no props

          Mon, December 20, 2004 - 12:10 PM
          Couple of comments - and for the record I'm a pretty conventionally trained artist, so my defense of graffitti isn't based in any personal gain - people aren't getting hurt doing graffitti any more than they are getting hurt doing all the other dangerous things we humans do - both legal and illegal. There will always be some who take responsible danger into the area of irresponsible danger. If you have just as much contempt for the woman who puts the bacon grease on too high as you do for this, I guess I can't argue hypocricy but I suspect you don't. You'll probably counter that this is different because it is illegal, however, this isn't the first time in history that artists have pushed the boundaries of the acceptable and even the legal. Some would argue that this is precisely the artist's job - and that the true art is in just such a questioning of culturally accepted morals. Graffitti questions property rights vs. public space. The dynamic of it is in the thrill of creating on the fly and the questioning of arbitrary authority. The imagery is secondary to the conceptual here. And there's a historical connection between artists and tricksters, rebels, and societal outcasts. Art is amoral. And the Dada movement's proponents wouldn't have made such a clear division as you have here concerning the unacceptability of covering over previous work.
          But beyond all this - you can't asign blame for one individual's actions onto a whole group of people engaging in the same basic action - not all graffitti artists are killed and have to be scraped off a vehicle. Not all graffitti artists assault when they are apprehended or pursued. Not all graffitti artists do any more damage than their tagging. I'd venture a guess that the majority don't fit that profile at all. Is it illegal? Yep - so is sodomy but that doesn't stop people from doing it. Is it art? Well - I think it can be - and that art and legality are not mutually exclusive.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: graf gets no props

    Sun, May 2, 2004 - 10:19 AM
    Lord, check out my website in my profile. My business partner and I have been working with graf writers for the past two years, working to change the common perception of graf as "low" art. We've worked with relative unknowns, and we've worked with legends like Lee Quinones and Erni Vales. We also rep artists whose work is more traditional painting but is very clearly influenced by urban and graffiti art. I think that it's important to keep striving to educate the wider public as to the benefits and history of hip hop culture, which includes graf, and for people like myself to elevate the art form by integrating it into the more established contemporary art world.
    • Unsu...
       

      Re: graf gets no props

      Thu, December 16, 2004 - 12:28 AM
      the painting that went up on trains really rocked, and everyone who had any sense knew that. nothing quite like waiting with sleepsand in your eyes for the train to get to school or work, and then there it was, a real masterpiece.
      big smile as you got on board, and then all the tagging inside the car was just kind of funny, because the competition was so fierce and most of the people riding the train just didn't know what to make of it all.

      as for the art world, there is so much infighting among gallery artists, having someone look down their nose at you, well, all I can say is, join the club. gallerists in NYC do that to each other all the time, one school of artists hates the other, it is quite a scene. the Art Crimes website has some really good
      stuff on it, the articles and essays are great. one writer suspects that the people who belittle graffiti artists keep the spraycan scene pumping, fuel for the fire. anyone, graffiti is making a comeback. and as a graf artist you are painting in the great tradition of latin american muralists, and even Diego Rivera got his piece torn down at Rockefeller Plaza. Green eyed monster envy. Do your work w/ inspiration and to heck w/ anyone who doesn't get it.
      I used to write about art for a private corporation, and everyone there thought they were better than I was because they were writing financial reports....then I took my skills to the art world, and WHOOAAA look out, boy did I feel better... don't let the yokels get you down.
  • Re: graf gets no props

    Wed, May 4, 2005 - 9:27 PM
    I've never done grafitti art personally but have been an artist and musician for nearly 50 years.

    If I review someone's past work and commision them to paint something for me...I'm gonna consider that art. Plain and simple. BUT! The slippery little motha-fuckah that tagged my residence last week is a fucking vandal. And that's the straight shit.

    BTW..I've documented urban grafitti photographically for a number of years and DO support the art form. I'm also looking for a writer with a good book to do a vehicle and a large sign for me. Hook me up.

    david
    • Re: graf gets no props

      Thu, May 5, 2005 - 11:08 AM
      Graf, originally coming out of the ghetto, is a form of expression to a part of society that would otherwise not have the means to express themselves. Graf is a form of rebellion against a system of oppression. A system that wants everything to go straight and narrow and wants everyone to conform to the rules. In my eyes graf writes are not just artists, they are warriors in a war for freedom.

      Also, there is a difference between tagging and piecing. Tagging being the quick write of the name or crew affiliation. Piecing is the art of using multiple colors to create a mural. Those true to the art form will eventually evolve to piecing. Those that cannot seem to move beyond the fame of seeing your name on a wall will never move on beyond tagging and eventually will drop out for lack of commitment to the art form.
      • Re: graf gets no props

        Wed, May 25, 2005 - 6:56 AM
        There is a look and feel to graffiti that I find amazing. I love walking down the streets of Philadelphia and seeing murals all over town by artists working with only a flashlight. I'm not talking about the throw-ups on the walls but the the otherworldly looking 3D pieces, the fantastic characters, the intricate design. I think this stuff deserves respect.