Hello
I am an aborisha, part of a Lukumi ile and having just recieved elekes.
I am pleased to have found this groups. as although I am involved in the lukumi tradition, I have also been equally drawn palo. My padrino is not very keen on palo and has given me the impression that it is quite a negative religion. Yet I feel drawn to both - luumi and palo. I have always been drawn to both of them even before I started out in lukumi
I just need to know if palo is a bad as I am led to beleive (although deep within my heart I do not sense it to be bad or evil at its core). Is it also possible or rigt to be drawn to two different religiosn and can I practise both.
Finally, i would incerely and gratefully appreciate anyone that can help point me in the right direction towards a good palo house/community in the Uk or europe
Be blessed always
I am an aborisha, part of a Lukumi ile and having just recieved elekes.
I am pleased to have found this groups. as although I am involved in the lukumi tradition, I have also been equally drawn palo. My padrino is not very keen on palo and has given me the impression that it is quite a negative religion. Yet I feel drawn to both - luumi and palo. I have always been drawn to both of them even before I started out in lukumi
I just need to know if palo is a bad as I am led to beleive (although deep within my heart I do not sense it to be bad or evil at its core). Is it also possible or rigt to be drawn to two different religiosn and can I practise both.
Finally, i would incerely and gratefully appreciate anyone that can help point me in the right direction towards a good palo house/community in the Uk or europe
Be blessed always
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Re: introduction
Thu, February 14, 2008 - 8:49 AMhello there..im CC..welcome.
well...its ok to be drawn to both path...something with in u must be looking for that missing peace..as for it being BAD!! ..............NO!!..its how the person practice it..there are many mysterys to this path as well as any path...but bad only lies with in the persons heart..speaking of hearts...they say ..to be a real gangulera...i dont think i spelled that right(LOL) well to be in palo..is not to have a heart..;-) but that go's with feather teachings to understand that....just remember this..with out light..theres no dark..with out dark..theres no light...its like the ying and yang..;-) theres always some type of balance with in each path
sweetie..theres beauty in every path..its up to u. -
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 12:24 PMThank you...that has reassurd me a little that I am not doing something bad by being drawn to Palo.
I adore my padrino nd respect him, but I know he will be disappointed in my interest in Palo - I honestly do not wish to offend him and I am a bit worried about how I broach the subject to him.
I do admire the nergy of Palo, but am quite content to adore from it afar, but recently and with increasing fequency, I find a lot of Palo energy around me and I keep thinking maybe I should listen for a change.
I love the lukumi religion so much, however, I want it more than I need it. with Palo, I seem to need it more than I want it - if any of that makes any sense. Perhaps together, the two will bring a much needed energy or balance in my life.
When i have tentaively attempted to enquire about Palo from my padrino, his response i very sharp and he discoruages me from it. I do not wish to offend him and I would love him to be my padrino still. I have rcently met a few Palo contacts. I do not wish to appear as if I am going behind my padrino's back, yet I do not know how I can tell him, without incurring his deep displeasure, of my interest in and pull to Palo and my decision to try to explore that a little further.
Any suggestions on what I should do will be veru mich appreciated. -
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Fri, February 15, 2008 - 12:32 PMPS - I am not saying that I wish tp leave lukumi. I would love to remain in Lukumi, but I would also like to explore a little of Palo - at least, have a reading to see if it is for me. However, my padrino advised me not to have any oreadings to do with orishas from outside the ile, so I am a little stuck as I do not know how to tell him that I would like to have a palo reading. I am worried this would incur his displeasure and disapproval for 2 main no-nos: 1) having areading from outside the ile and 2) having a palo reading.
Help!! -
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Re: introduction
Sun, February 17, 2008 - 3:08 AMJust my opinion. Hello, I am young in these traditions and would like to offer my suggestion; if things are going fine in your life and you do not have a palo community in your area, and if your elder is a good practitioner that has exposed you to positive energy in your life and can guide you in the right direction in his traditions then I would say look no further for the time being. Try to seek spiritual clarity within your being, get to know who you are spiritualy maybe set up a small Boveda table and get to know yourself, I respect CC and feel she can give good guidence in this arena, and what she said is very, very true it lies within you and it is up to you what energy you work with. There is wisdom in her words my only advice would be to be wise in making desicions.
God bless. -
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Sun, February 17, 2008 - 10:39 PMI agree with Samuel. You may not really know what the feelings you are having are comming from. You may have impressions about Palo but not really know what Palo is about. You question about Palo beign bad may indicate this. There may be no way forward without consulting your Padrino. Can I ask you a few questions?
What is it about Palo (according to your understanding of Palo) that makes you think you need it?
Are you a crowned head? Have you received your guerros/ warriors?
Is there an Egun society in your house? Do you keep a boveda for your dead?
Have you gone to see a priest of Ifa/Babaloa? -
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Sun, February 17, 2008 - 10:42 PMSorry I glanced over where you said you just got your elekes. Consider my other questions though.
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 2:37 AMBendicion
No, I am not crowned and neither have I received the warriors. I have no egun society in my house and I do have a boveda at home where I pray regularly.
I do not why I am being drawn - there isn't a definite thing about I can lay my finger on and say thi is what attract about Palo. In fact, some rituals of Palo worry me - I feel uncomfortable at the idea of being cractched and I am still coming to terms with animal sacrifice, yet it is the overall energy of Palo that I am drawn to.
I feel like despite having made steps into lucumi, I feel a sense that soemthing is missng or I am neglecting something. I do not know what it is, yet I feel it is something connected to Palo.
I did have a reading (my 1st diloggun reading) and I recived Odi-eyeunle (7-8). this came in ire, very firm ire, to be enjoyed in the prsent. I was told a lot of positive stuff would happen in my life this year, a lot of progres and blesinsg and so on. Yemaya also spoke very strongly for me in the reading. Yet....none of these things have happened. i can sense Yemaya's energy around me, but nothing major as depicted by the reading has happened. In fact, thing around me became worse: I got very ill in January and was in hospital for 2 week (1st time in my life!) and when I returned my pet was stolen on my doorstep and am being contnually harassed by ome peole around me.
The only way I cna describe is a sense of vulnerability or imbalance that needs to be corrected someohow.
I do ot wish to go behnd my padrino's back, but I ma very worried about telling that I'd like to have a readingn (palo or lucumi) to find out what is going on) and at least, to explore and establish where the feelings are coming from.
Much light and peace
Omo Orisha -
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Re: introduction
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 8:06 AMgood morning everyone..;-) every stated from crocker and samual is right.. i would have never said it better...
sweetie...lesson 101...and god child should never feel scared on how the god-parent will re-act...thats leting me know..alot of things are not spoken in the open..With all respects ...to all here and u...but! a godchild should always know how to go to there padrino or madrina..its like a child going to speak to their parent,,if your not open on how u feel about things ..then they cant help u..I feel u really need to speak to ut padrino...with respects to him and the house ur born from...explain to him how u feel..the same way u have stated here in the notes to us...u can tell him..theres always a way to speak with out no disrespect..I cant tell u the out come of it..but u must always be honest...sweetie....speak to ur god-father...the would be the best thing to do.
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Mon, February 18, 2008 - 4:16 PMIf you asked me what my first impression as to what was missing I would say the dead. However, you don't need to be a Palero or involved in Palo to honor your dead. I am not involved in any Orixa tradition but I do know that you need to be right with your dead whatever you do and the easiest way I know is to keep a place for your dead and feed them at least weekly. If I were you I would go to your padrino and ask about ancestor work.
IMHO there has been damage done to Palo Mayombe y Monte and Orixa traditions that come from Cuba because of a lack of Egun societies. There are specific Yoruban practices for honoring the dead but I hear again and again that people are rayado to fill in this lack of Egun practice in Cuba. Palo suffers for it because people get scratched and just move to Ocha. This leads to situations in which over time much information is lost to a Palo rama being supported by a Ocha house because Palo is never really practiced. Only rayados are performed. Ocha suffers for the lack of the complete Yoruban practice. Again thats just what I think. -
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 3:01 AMbright blessings
I do have a boveda where I pary to my ancestors....I thought that was a way to connect with the dead..
My padrino, a traditional lucumi, does not have a boveda (cos he beleives the boveda is a practise linked to espiritism and not lucumi), but he does have an egun shrone. I asked him if I needed to have one and if I could have one and his reply was that I did not require the egun ancestor shrine at the moment
Much light and peace
omo oriha -
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Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 8:22 AMim sorry! i hate to dis-respect any house or elder...but thats BULL SHIT!! u and anyone that practise the spiritaul path.being the santo's or palo...or any other path....must connect with ur eggun!!! our Ancestor play a big part in the path we follow.....im sorry..but i would tell u this and anyone else to their face..u cant have one with out the other..a person must always have the balance...granted..theres people that have letters ..that after ocha...they dont come to work with eggun..they come to work with santo ..but im sure they dont 4-get about their ancestor...they may not work them but the give them there respects..sweetie..u do need one with the other.....
i just got 1 question? how long have you've been with your padrino? -
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 10:48 AMNot long...I have known him for a little over a year. He has been my godparent for about 8 monthss - I would like to get to know him a bit more, but i feel like I can't get close to him and as such I never know if I can approach him about certain things. I respect him and adore him, but sometimes I feel in the dark about some basic things and I do not feel comfortable to aks him about it or sometimes when I do, his response seems to say 'don't ask me about this anymore' This is what I felt with the egun ancestor shrine...I asked him about it and if I needed it and it was a short 'no, not right now' so I never asked him again. It was also the same thing with the Palo: 'please tell me a bit more about palo...what exactly is it'?'.....'it's negative....they use dead human remains in their rituals to harm and destroy other people. It has no place in lucumi and certainly not for an orisha devotee'...and as such I feel a bit apprehensive about broaching the whole subject of my attraction to palo. i can't understand why I am drawn to it....I know nothing about it.....and the only person I can or should approach on the matter has no wish to discuss the subject.....I reallly hate going behind his back....but I am at a loss and in a dilema.
peace and light
aborisha78 -
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Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 11:08 AMsweetie...i dont know what to tell u about ur god-father...u may not agree on his ways but i still respect his crown...but i also learned along the way..to be respected,,u must give respect,,it works both ways...so if im will to respect ur things..then u should respect my things..and thats everything that walks with me...as for ur question on palo things..leseon 1..sweetie..theres laws that each path follows..theres somethings we can speak on and many cant..untill u have come one with that path and entered that world..never! plesae! never ask a palero if he uses bones or anything..what kind of question is that...thats like asking a santero what yemaya holds in secretes..! theres limmits in any path because of the stages u must reach...u cant run -if u dont know how to walk.....what im trying to say take baby steps...if ur godfather is not helping..get another..someone that can lead u right..im sorry i might sound cold on that...but from the sounds of it...ur not moving anywhere there. -
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 11:29 AMI understand the need for secrecy on some matters....I am not asking to know everything about Palo. The type of questions I ask are like: can I have a lucumi reading or advice to determien why am being drawn to palo and what the orisshas have to say about it' and ' if I can't have a lucumi reaidng, can i have a palo reading to see what the palo deities have to say'....that's all! I am not aksing to know secrets or anything.
I spoke to my padrino las night telling him I would like to see him soon....he has been quirte busy with his own personal commitments, o I feel quite reluctant making additonal demands on hi time and energy. I did not tell him what I wuld liek to discuss with him when I see him becos I do respect him and would rather discus he issue with him in person, rather than over the phone. Hopefully, when I do get to see him, I will be able to discuss the matter with him
Much light and peace
aborisha78 -
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Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 11:45 AMthose questions are ok..yes u can get a reading but always go to ur padrino 1st..the question i was talking about..out i think ur godfather was stateing about bones and hurting people..ooppsmaybe it wasnt a question..ythats how i took it..sorry..i thought u was asking..if paleros put bones..or use it to hurt others..? thats what i thought u asked. -
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 11:48 AMwhoopsies....yeah, a bit of misunderstanding there. what I meant was when I would ask my padrino to tell what palo means and if i can have a palo reading, he told me that I do not need a palo reading cos it iss nit for me and that palo is quite negative.....seeing as i know nothing about palo, except for what my padrino told me, my only impression of palo is that it is a religion that uses bones/humans remains and it is a religion that people only use to harm innocent people
much light and peace
aborisha78 -
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Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 11:55 AMohhhhhhhh. i see..;-) i did a whoopsie in deed(LOL)
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 10:59 PMWhat seems clear to me is that you will not be able to investigate Palo and continue to be your Padrino's godchild. Going behind his back is only going to bite you in the ass in the end. You need to decide what you want to do. I can say that according to my understanding if you become a crowned head before you are rayado, you will likely not be allowed to rayado.
Follow your heart...good luck
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Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 12:18 PMI agree wit you cc.
And would like to add something that can possible obvious & basic.
But thats where everything starts, but needing & respecting is very different.
The boveda is more for you then your eggun so for someone to say you might not need it is as to say you dont need life. -
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Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 12:25 PMhello nessa ..welcome to the tribe...;-)
and ur right on that...eggun is what we are born with..then steping in to palo..thats part of that spiritual realm..
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Re: introduction
Tue, February 19, 2008 - 8:12 AMi agree 100% crocker,,u hit that nail right on the nose!!! -
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Re: introduction
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 7:30 AMNsala Malekun, Just because your Padrino doesn't like or practice Palo does not mean you shouldn't be allowed to while you are part of his ile. You can practice both religions if Palo is really for you. The question of why anybody would practice more than one religion is a even bigger question. Palo is a complete religion that does NOT need any involvement into anything else. Some feel they need to become rayado in Palo then run quickly to Cuba or Miami to get crowned which makes no sense because you are going to give more attention to one instead of the other. What's the point in being part of something that you are not dedicated to? Nobody can tell you if it's ok or not to have a boveda or constructing a full scale shrine for your muertos because this helps you as well as them! Palo is a very potent kick-ass religion in a positive or negative way. Energy is energy, it's how you use it that counts and that goes for any tradition, even the Holy Bible which has a few curses deep inside those pages of verses. Don't let anyone get the facts twisted about Lukumi either because their are a few Orishas you could receive and work with that deals mostly with only negative energy and any real Santero or Babalawo knows this very well. If Palo is your path then your Padrino can NOT stop you from moving forward into another path that just happen to be a bit more stronger and faster than his own which sometimes is the main reason why he would try to control you from practicing anything else but Lukumi. You can't demand the Orishas to do something, you have to ask them and if they feel it's good for you then it's ok. This is not the case in Palo and frankly it is the other way around which is why a lot of Santeros like yours can't handle knowing this fact.. If your more interested in Palo then you should find a reputable Tata in your own area for an investigation at the foot of the prenda and you don't need a Santeros consent either.
May Zambia bless and guide you
Tata Lembo Ndongo -
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Re: introduction
Wed, February 20, 2008 - 9:05 AMnicely put tata..;-) with all respects...but we both know..the tools of palo or ocha..is something u bye..not born with...ur right in every thing u stated ... BUT! when it comes to eggun..yes,,u do need that balanced...so yes..one must have a boveda,,or even one glass of water placed...hay....but many people work very diffrent....but everything else u have stated here i do agree...
with all respects tata..are u crowned?
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Re: introduction
Thu, February 21, 2008 - 4:55 PMFunny all indegineous religions in the mainstream's eye is considered a negative practice only to find enlightenment from this path if coming with an open heart... even funnier is for one traditional practice to say that the other is negative... hmmm even in the network of cultural religion... will the madness ever end? In this case lukimi "good" to palo "not so good" lol... every spiritual path has its virtues, positives and negatives ...ie: charlatans pretending to be true practitoners.. that should be the real negativity issue in any religious practice... the only thing that can happen is that you can check it out and if it is to your liking then stay... if not then leave... but know that you left learning more than when you came. -
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Re: introduction
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 8:37 AMwow..cystal....nicely stated..;-)your right! -
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 12:38 PMHey there CC....thanks for the tips you gave...am taking your advice....feels really calm and lovely. I will be seeing padrino this weekend...so fingers crossed
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Re: introduction
Fri, February 22, 2008 - 12:53 PMgood luck girl...may the saints and eggun protect u...;-)and if palo is for u..may it lead the way...
ps..dont push anything that was said in the thread to the side....everyone had very good points...all is to learn and have understand from everyones note...it always helps to have an open mind..good luck girl..let us know whats happens,..talk soon. -
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Re: introduction
Sat, March 8, 2008 - 5:26 PMNsala Malecum everyone,
I just wanted to add to what has already been said. I had a madrina in Ocha before the ile I belong to now. Though I loved her and
felt close to her, she was not able to provide for my spiritual needs. She had problems with her husband and with her health, I could not
get her advise or help in my life. I don't believe you can evolve in your spiritual life if you are afraid to be honest with your Padrino, Madrina or Tata. Your godparents are supposed to want only what is best for you and perhaps that is too much to ask from people. I was lucky enough to find such an ile, where I can totally trust my godparents to look out for me and set me in the right direction. One thing I would like to say, I am to be crowned Eleggua in Ocha and am initiated in Palo with Lucero. My path is to be drawn to mystery and power (the energy kind, not authority). It is difficult to stay where I am put spiritually and I agree with everything said here. One does not need Palo or Ocha or vice versa but, in many Cuban houses people do have both. I know many longtime Tata's feel this is wrong and I respect my elders, I am only saying it is common. The Eggun are for all of us, initiated or not, we all need their help whoever we are. Good luck to you and may you have peace in your heart. -
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Re: introduction
Tue, March 11, 2008 - 12:10 PMi think that was well put .....;-)
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Unsu...
Re: introduction
Thu, March 13, 2008 - 10:57 AMthank you eleggua's Boy for your response. I have taken all the advice to heart and decided to do 2 tings
1) copntinue my relationship with my eggun, continually praying to them to bring me clarity and take me where am supposed to be: palo, lucumi or otherwise.
2) simply sit back, record and heed any dreams and premonitions i received, expect nothing and watch where the tide will blow me
light and peace
omo orisha
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Re: introduction & CC's (first) reply
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 4:40 PMI heard the 'Santeria' song by Sublime on Radio Faction today, looked up the word on wikipedia, JOINED wikipedia just to edit the Santeria wiki-page, and did a quick websurf on Santeria... And found your post, Omo.
Two things:
One can only serve one master.
And true religion is not about following a path (as in CC's reply) in life, it's about spending time in your heart with God, and living from that place.
And now a question for you, if I may. The reason I joined wikipedia to edit the wiki for Santeria, is because it is also known as "La Regla de Lukumi" (Lukumi's Rule). Who, where or what, is Lukumi? It would seem to that Africans brought over to the Central Americas in the New World (Caribbean, Central & South Americas) fused together various Dahomean, baKongo (Congo) and Lukumi beliefs and rituals with elements from the surrounding Christian culture, which they had been nominally converted to.
So... who, where or what, is Lukumi?
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Re: introduction & CC's (first) reply
Tue, May 27, 2008 - 5:12 PMOne other thing, so as to not single CC out :)
Nearly everyone in this post mentions a 'path' in the context that I was speaking about. In fact, the ones that don't are Tata Mafiote, who addresses my first point regarding serving two masters. (My second point still applies, Mafiote :)
Eleggua is drawn to mystery and power (not the authority kind). God is both mysterious & powerful beyond measure :) Think about that. I mean, you could walk down paths with Him that you'd never get bored of haha
And Crystal, all you need to know is that I'm not typically 'mainstream' :) If ya know what I mean... Just don't want my posts to be taken as criticism. They aren't... they're more like arrows, shot on target.
There is only darkness, until light shines. Somebody mentioned, "there is no darkness, without light & there is no light, without darkness," referring to the ying-yang concept. This is untrue. Darkness flees.
I've read all of your posts in this thread.
No man can know your heart, which is why it's futile to follow 'paths.' A 'path' is, by definition, a trail, or journey, which has already been walked, or is currently being walked by someone ahead of you. Anyone that becomes your 'master' in a 'path of life' is simply serving as a taskmaster until you've 'opened' your heart to a certain someone I mentioned in my first post. We are meant to walk a fresh path with Him every day. As I said, no man knows your heart. -
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Re: introduction & CC's (first) reply
Thu, June 12, 2008 - 8:29 PMhello everyone..;-) its good to be back...wow...theres been so much to read..diffrent replys..which is great....and i dont know where to start ;-) but im happy on how we all can be so open on our points at hand.....even if we have studyed it..practiced it..or even lived it...thats what makes faith and its mysterys god has placed in our life so great......as for me...i follow what my heart leads me to...and what makes me happy..reading all the replys here just states that we all have that with in...that light!...that calling! no matter what path...what faith!...if the heart is clean....follow what make u happy and brings peace to ur soul...I always say....sometime we can be teachers but must always have room to become the student..we are here to learn from each-other...one peace of the puzzle will match the other...the same way people cross our paths 4 one reason or another..its how we face it....nsala malekum to all...;-) or better stated blessed be.(wink)...
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