Let me start out by saying I do not want to start up a thread that is a fiery debate between those who hold orthodox vedic views on meat and alcohol and those who have transcended orthodoxes and taboos.

I have heard it mentioned many times that if you are a devotee of Mother Kali or Mother Durga it is acceptable either on ritual occasion, through prasadam or at any time to eat meat and drink wine. Mother Kali and Mother Durga both have transcended this taboo and are often said to be fond of offerings of flesh, blood, wine and alcoholic spirits... There are also other Goddesses and deities who are fond of other taboo offerings. For example Mother Mathangi is known for favoring offerings of leftover food, menstrual blood, and other taboo substances from devotees in a state of pollution.

i'd like to discuss the transcendent nature of Mother Kali and other deities who are not bound by strict morally structured worship and how that relates to those of us who are devoted to them. It is well know that Maa Kali will start a funeral pyre for your karmas. Mother Kali also wears the belt of severed arms which indicates her ability to sever right handed AND left handed karmas. Whether your karmas are benign or not, she has the ability to sever you from your karmas and your ability to create more. I have heard it explained in many similar fashions that a devotee of Kali or other such Goddesses does not have the same karmic ties to the world if he or she is successful in their devotion. Non-attachment is one thing amongst many that Kali teaches as well, but also to embrace all levels of existence and the reality behind each level of existence. Such deities also encourages destructive behaviors and is known for living in the cremation grounds, battle grounds, desolate places, and other destructive places on the edge of society where the taboos of society do not exist. There is also a form of Kali who was worshipped by a band of thieves who lived in the forest and were said to offer humans to her. Stealing is also not morally correct, but that does not apply to a person who is without societal shame.

I'd also like to discuss that fact that it is said to be successful in many tantric sadhanas, one will absorb the shakti and essence of the targeted deity

There are also practices that offerings made mentally and physically to the power of the deity within you can sometimes take the form of feeding one's self physically to feed the deity inside so to speak through the fire of digestion and devotion both. It is well known in many cultures that a deity and/or spirit entity can consume energy through favored offerings through a favored devotee who has absorbed the energy of the deity or has become possessed by the entity or deity.

I am not here to discuss the phenomena of possession or the process of absorbing a deity, per se. What I would like to discuss in a suitable fashion is the consuming of taboo substances when one is a devotee of a deity who is fond of them. Of course when you offer a physical substance to a deity that is edible or drinkable then one will take a bit as prasadam. I feel that taking prasadam is also part of the offering in that not only are you absorbing the merciful shakti given by the deity but it also feeds and empowers that deity that is more powerfully present within our own selves.

In many true Kali temples there is blood, meat, wine, and cigarette smoke all in abundance to create the atmosphere fit for such a Mother who is fond of destructive behavior and breaking taboos.

Do you think that these taboos that she likes to break should be a model for her devotees who can often be stuck in such taboos? Do you ever get the desire to offer or consume taboo substances? Is it part of a regular sadhana for you to do so literally or metaphorically? Has any of the socially or morally destructive tendencies of your deity rubbed off on you?

A lot of people who practice benign methods of tantra shun such activity. They often share the view that such physical consuming of meat and wine is impure with their brothers and sisters who practice the orthodox Vedic Dharma. And while I see the wisdom in this, I also see the wisdom in PHYSICALLY facing taboos like wine and meat in order to break them away. If you are meant to do so. Mother Kali and other wild natures of similar tantric deities shows that she is one to experience all flavors of life, especially the dark and taboo flavors of flesh, blood, and wine. How does that apply to us as devotees who are following these deities as guides, or raising the power the represent within ourselves?

I see the metaphorical values, but since I have a body, a mind, and a spirit, I can see how this can translate to all three levels. A lot of times the physical side of nature is neglected. We are still embodied beings, and if we live life thinking "all is a metaphor" and that we should shun taboos, what benefit can be derived when facing one's fears and taboos on a physical level? I think that a true spiritual process can be found on all levels of the body. It is true that one passes physical limitations, but how can that be possible without working on a physical and literal level in the beginning stages? Just like any external worship and ritual that helps our body also be part of the process, as well as the mind and spirit and other subtle levels. There are many spiritual sciences that include physical practice, such as certain asanas and gestures, or the Aghor tradition of eating certain types of meat and foul substances to overcome disgust, etc. So why should certain practices that have a face value neglect that face value and physical aspect? I am one to believe that it applies to all levels. The face value, and the inner secret values on subtle levels.

I am not one to neglect my body in the transformation process. And as I include it along with my mind and spirit, I see the changes on all three levels.

There was a previous thread concerning meat and alcohol, but it turned into a big pissing match about the guru principle, and orthodox views vs. Unorthodox, how things like meat and alcohol are metaphors, etc. I am asking as the starter of this thread, let's not let this become a discussion of morals on the Aghora tribe... I don't personally care for much moral values, they are only limitations and rules to be broken, and I don't want to discuss them. I have already heard and read enough of orthodox morals to not only know them thoroughly but to be sick of them as well. After all has anyone ever met someone practicing Aghora who condones following moral and social structure?