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Living With The Dead

topic posted Wed, April 25, 2007 - 7:47 PM by  Saul
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Norki79 posted a link to the Bedi Brothers' documentary on YouTube, which I'VE been looking for for years:

www.youtube.com/watch

it is in segments.

a caveat:

Dolf Hartsuiker (who wrote the Sadhus coffee table photo book which probably many of you have seen) said to me, 'the "documentary"of a few years ago by the Bedi brothers, is absolutely and totally fake.'

I have not watched it yet but am about to, so long as my internet doesn't go down!
posted by:
Saul
SF Bay Area
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  • Re: Living With The Dead

    Tue, May 1, 2007 - 1:41 AM
    I watched it the day before yesterday. I can't say if it's fake or not. It was nice to watch like most movies about aghoris. The only thing in the documentary that *seemed* a bit fake to me was Ramnath's guru.
    • Re: Living With The Dead

      Tue, May 1, 2007 - 4:26 AM
      to me it seemed believable, i have met a few Gurus who spent 20 or so years as a dread lock sodhu and than in their senior years were clean cut just like him, I even met one who specialized in dealing with evil spirits and possession just like Ramanaths Guru.
      • Re: Living With The Dead

        Tue, May 1, 2007 - 10:04 AM
        agreed Ananta... why would this need to be faked anyway? all this is there in India.
        • Re: Living With The Dead

          Tue, May 1, 2007 - 6:37 PM
          yeah I don't know, I'm just passing along what I heard.

          in any case, for the most part it didn't seem sensationalist or fake, the only things I could maybe see being faked were the eating of the cremated body and the human-interest "Sadhu goes to meet his family" sequence...

          the exorcisms looked right, and I agree with Ananta, especially with Aghoris if you have spent 12 years out in the trenches (graves?) you are free to go back to normal living, as long as you have completed your work and are no longer attached.
          • Re: Living With The Dead

            Wed, May 2, 2007 - 1:10 PM
            Well first of all, Very good post, there's nothin fake here about the Aghori,and his guru Satya Narayan.Wether to live in a cremaion ground after completion is the personal choice of the sadhak,but most gurus would prefer their aghori shishya stay in the cremation ground or wander around other sacred tantric sites as it is often a practice of these aghoris and accomplished tantrics to wander in search of sacred tantric sites where more sadhana can be done and more siddhi gained,the only thing that really becomes a problem for aghoris like ramnath is the fact that they return home,there is nothing wrong when a sadhak returns home but he should return home as a sadhu and not as a family member as this leads to attachment if he still considers himself as a part of his family,it is often noted that it's fine to return home for a tantric and live a normal life,but not so for an aghori since a tantric is not a sadhu but an aghori is.Aghoris are definitely more accomplished than the regular tantric.Aghoris are diffrentiated from the regular tantric by the fact that there are certain siddhis only an aghori can accomplish,and not a tantric as the rules for accomplishment for these siddhis are such.There are many tantrics who have a family life, i.e. they live with their families.


            the only things I could maybe see being faked were the eating of the cremated body and the human-interest "Sadhu goes to meet his family" sequence... >>

            well the whole documentary is in hindi and the subtitles in english are not at all accurate,and are misleading at several points,in the docu ramnath shown eating meat says,in his words," as far the consumption of human faeces and urine,chiken meat and human flesh,is concerned", he says he finds no diffrence in the taste of the both as he does not eat it for the taste,but because he says he feels an internal urge to do so and does it so to quench it,he says that if he does feel such an urge he is free to drag an entire human corpse out of a funeral pyre and consume it whole all of it,he says he's got that much power.But intrestingly he nowhere in the sequence shown where he's shown eating a peice of meat, does he refer to it as human flesh,in fact he starts off the whole thing by saying that ther is no place for disgust as he eats whatever is given to him in his skull bowl sometimes leftovers and things left behind for the corpses as well.

            The family sequence is really strange because even the other sadhus never visit their families once they have recieved initiation,and if they do come across their family they have to treat them as a part and parcel of the world outside of theirs,just as any other person.Only the guru is the closest person for a sadhu,but as such all forms of attachment are scorned at.Sadhus refrain from any sort of attachment because they consider that attachments bring obstacles in their path, to freedom it holds, even more so in case of an aghori because of the very nature of his sadhana.At the end ramnath's guru is shown saying that what ramnath did was not commendable and that he did not follow his orders,and that all that he sees when he looks at ramnath is the darkness that fills his life ,and he prays to god that he keep ramnath away from the darkness that now awaits him.But ramnath on the other hand justifies his actions by saying that love is an integral part of the aghori's sadhana and that he has done nothing wrong.

            ramnath is a real aghori for sure,there are many things that fall into place.where they should be the only thing enacted was the search for a perfect skull on the river bed,notice that ramnath already has the aghori wrist band made of metal.which is only given after a full initiation.

            R.C. Panth the man shown in the docu, who brought his mother for cremation mentions haridwar,but i suspect the documentary was made at rishikesh...and ramnath hails from Bihar.



            • Re: Living With The Dead

              Wed, May 2, 2007 - 1:58 PM
              yeah the skull thing definitely seemed to be a reenactment or a demonstration. all in all, I think this was quite interesting to watch and I thank norki79 for posting it elsewhere!
  • Re: Living With The Dead

    Thu, May 3, 2007 - 2:51 PM
    Those of you who use Mozilla Firefox web browser can download that documentary on YouTube to your PC by installing Firefox extension VideoDownloader ( addons.mozilla.org/en-US/fi...ddon/2390 ). It very easy.
    • Re: Living With The Dead

      Wed, June 13, 2007 - 11:46 AM
      I saw it!!! Awesome!!!!But I didnt get how he disobeyed his guru? Was it because he visited his family?
      • Re: Living With The Dead

        Wed, June 13, 2007 - 3:34 PM
        Om Namo Narayana -

        When one takes Sannyas then they are to be dead to their former lives
        with No connection to that. The reason is to not continue to foster attachments and mind
        play with emotional drama connected to that. This is why he will have a very difficult time in
        that path. One says they have essentially died already.

        He is being pulled in two directions. towards the world while his path is to get beyond the
        conditionings of the world.

        Maha Shanti OM
        0
        • Re: Living With The Dead

          Wed, June 13, 2007 - 8:18 PM
          He is being pulled in two directions. towards the world while his path is to get beyond the
          conditionings of the world.
          hmmm sounds like my life, and that of many of my dharma brothers and sisters, luckily with Guru Mantra and Ista mantra we can be in the world but not of it.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Living With The Dead

            Wed, June 13, 2007 - 9:21 PM
            > He is being pulled in two directions. towards the world while his path is to get beyond the conditionings of the world.
            *****
            Since we're in a tribe about tantra, I thought I'd remind everyone that tantra dictates that one gets beyond "the conditionings of the world" by going THRU them.

            > hmmm sounds like my life, and that of many of my dharma brothers and sisters, luckily with Guru Mantra and Ista mantra we can be in the world but not of it.
            *****
            We'll always be in the world, and always not of it, regardless of whether we've realized it directly or not.

            Tantra is the spiritualization of the "pay the bills to put a roof over my head and food in my stomach while having a little fun now and then"-reality we all have to deal with, rather than "the check out and live in a cave"-style reality that folks mistakenly view as some kind of holy ideal, rather than a completely unrealistic approach to life in the present context.

            Life in the ashram is no escape, either. It's often more of an *amplification* of the world rather than a refuge from it.

            Some experts may disagree, but if one is truly surrendered to God (however they view Him/Her/It), every step in any direction is walking on the Path, regardless of who has been installed (or has installed themselves) as "guru" in your life.
            • Re: Living With The Dead

              Fri, June 15, 2007 - 3:11 AM
              It is natural to be pulled in various directions...I once met this aughar gentleman who has taken sanyas, but still rememebrs his family and is in two minds whether to visit them or not, despite 14 years having passed since then...he still keeps all their pictures with him etc....this makes me wonder, is anyone truly immune to the pull of their past (great sages and enlightened ones apart)....I just feel that if one fights one's natural feelings, it only messes the mind more....so if one is going to renounce home and family, maybe it is a gradual and eventual process and not somehting thrown away after a death rite? This is only my thoughts on the matter....dont have a concrete view as yet....
        • Re: Living With The Dead

          Sun, June 17, 2007 - 10:17 AM
          >>When one takes Sannyas then they are to be dead to their former lives
          with No connection to that. The reason is to not continue to foster attachments and mind
          play with emotional drama connected to that. This is why he will have a very difficult time in
          that path. One says they have essentially died already.
          **************************************************************************
          Swami-G an aghori is a sadhu first,he may or may not choose to take the path of a sanyasi,and most sanyasis follow vedic traditions aghoris are not followers of this tradition,they practice forms of advanced tantra under a guru.Dont get ur self confused between a sadhu and a sanyasi.
          • Re: Living With The Dead

            Sun, June 17, 2007 - 10:40 AM
            OM Namo Narayana -

            There is no confusion in this - in respects as to why his Guru said what he did this
            is why. No matter Sadhu or Sannyasi one doesn't continue to foster the connection
            with family as these ties continue emotional dramas that must be traversed.

            Perhaps yes most Sannyasis will follow vedic traditon but not all - there is no
            one size fits all.

            Maha Shanti OM
  • Re: Living With The Dead

    Mon, September 10, 2007 - 10:56 AM
    Adesh, I am new to this tribe thing, so thank you for being open to my presence here. I am so happy to have found that the film by the bedi brothers had been posted online at youtube, although it seems i am now a few months too late, as youtube says the film is no longer available because of violations... So does anyone know where I can find this video online? I have already seen it a few times in the local University library, but it it soo powerful to watch Ramnath, that I would love to see it again and again and again. Too much love to all of you, please lets engage in some real discussions here, because Aghora is not a vanity thing, it is a purification of the mind, so lets be real. contact me anytime, anyplace. Adesh

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