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www.electric-cars-are-for-girls.com/index.html

You know guys, those of us more familiar with the tech are making assumptions when we talk based on our personal choices but we probably ought to present info in a more objective and careful manner. What I mean is instead of us talking about the price per panel for example or a piece of equipment we would be helping others make more objective choices if we talked in terms of price per watt.

When you do that B it doesn't matter whether the system is grid or standalone, you are going to add the cost of controllers AND inverters to the system as well as batteries, and these reflect some related per watt cost when assessed in relation to the size of the system. I just put that cost in front where people could see it quickly and understand it in terms of a relationship to the panel but it exists per system no matter what and can be understood as DOLLARS per WATT. A panel costs X number of $ per Watt and the support system costs Y number of $ per Watt. By making the analysis in terms of dollars per watt we can all be on the same level playing field in our discussions.

When we assess a choice of grid connection or grid independence, or running a 12v based system we are also making personal choices that are again important when assessing equipment choices and should be understood up front or we are comparing apples and oranges. We also should be encouraging others to think through all the options as they impact their personal decision.

While we disagree on some aspects or personal choices, we are all basically in agreement and have already made a considerable effort at building and using systems. When others come here to decide how to build a system for themselves today we should present all the options and discuss them in terms of today's economy, not what was happening back in the stone age of PV development over a decade ago when things like grid tie were made almost impossible by price and code.

I encourage grid for safety as well as minimalization of the footprint, ecologically and physically, however there are good reasons for other choices as well but I do not want to see current lead/acid battery bank tech distributed throughout homes in a haphazard manner when we are talking about a potential recycling nightmare and safety hazard from situations that are not installed, maintained, and serviced properly.

I think that grid-tie can be developed in a low cost manner that will also create the option of a reverse appliance that is essentially plug and play and can be applied in millions of more situations in a modular fashion that means more people can get started making their own power and the current grid infrastructure would not need to be drastically rebuilt and redesigned to handle a large number of large scale centralized power production facilities.

I basically agree we need to get costs down across the board but there is a potential to make a small .25Kw grid tie unit that is a complete package small enough to fit almost any place with sufficient exposure and under a cost of $4 a watt for the COMPLETE system, not just the panel.This kind of simple, low maintenance, low risk product in terms of safety and finances, could be distributed to a much larger market than present tech can reach.

Anyway the rest of us can get into the nitty gritty and compare our systems all day long but to those not familiar with what we are talking about they do not understand off hand the impact on lifestyle choices each approach requires. One very good reason for grid tie is that it also has the least impact on ancillary personal choices, like what types of electronics to buy or creating a maintenance/oversight/recycling regimen for key components, or being careful not to use loads that discharge the system too far too often and so on.

Glenn, Dave, and B, I started out like you guys. I built a standalone system that is still running my garage. It is both 12v for some equipment and lighting as well as having an inverter to power on demand 110v AC equipment but as I developed the system and looked into my TOTAL costs and complexities of installation I moved back into grid tie to offset my actual monthly bill on the main house and found the approach was both elegantly simple and much less costly now that the real price per watt of many components is not only coming down but is getting scaled down to match a modality long term installation approach that promotes "pay as you can" development.

Oh and Dave I love E-Cars too and I am trying to build them as well but there the issue of battery versus Ultracap or hybrid tech is the big unfinished story that will determine whether we make E-Cars the popular choice for the future. That however is a totally different thread and worth having as a separate discussion.