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Glenn, if you feel this thread is not appropriate, please feel free to delete it.
Many of us are interested in renewable energy for a variety of reasons. Reading Mother Earth News this weekend, I found an article that expresses my concerns better than I ever could. I am including a link, the only thing missing in the web version is the graph that shows human population growth. I wish that graph were included, even without the article it makes one think.
www.motherearthnews.com/Nature...re.aspx
Many of us are interested in renewable energy for a variety of reasons. Reading Mother Earth News this weekend, I found an article that expresses my concerns better than I ever could. I am including a link, the only thing missing in the web version is the graph that shows human population growth. I wish that graph were included, even without the article it makes one think.
www.motherearthnews.com/Nature...re.aspx
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Boise
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Mon, May 11, 2009 - 10:44 PMYes, population is an issue. No, it's not something that we should work ourselves into a frenzy over. Alarmists who write about 'population bombs' are either not very bright or not very honest. How so? The key is the Demographic Transition, which should be a part of everyone's basic scientific literacy.
What's the DT? I'm glad that you asked. When a traditional society becomes modernized, there's an INITIAL population increase, due to modern medicine. When several conditions are met, then the birthrates start coming down drastically. Those conditions are: industrialization, urbanization, rudimentary public health measures, universal education, and respect for the rights of women.
In modern societies, people have certain expectations of living standards for their children. When the economy goes South, so do birthrates. During the Depression, birthrates in the U.S. temporarily fell BELOW replacement levels.
At the moment, birthrates are substantially BELOW replacement levels in Japan and in most of the W. European countries (but not Ireland). The issue in these places is this: With a graying population, how do we fund our social security programs? In most of W. Europe, immigration is a partial solution that carries a problem of its own: the clash of civilizations.
On the other hand, places like Haiti are Malthusian hells, because they haven't finished the modernization process. What can we do about population in the developing countries? Promote the five basics of modernization. And while we're at it, let's allow full-service family planning to take place there. No more gag rules on condom use or on abortion.
To a certain extent, population alarmism is a phony issue. The drum-beaters are dummies and people with hidden agendas. So my answer to the question in the title of this thread is an unequivocal maybe. Renewable energy is ALMOST enough.
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Tue, May 12, 2009 - 5:20 AMNot off topic, and no, renewable energy is not enough.
I have no children, and this is no accident.
Now, that said, we can find ways to mitigate the impact of the things we do, but renewable energy is *part* of a solution, not a complete one. It never was. -
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 10:00 AMGlenn:
We will find something new that will replace oil.
The money people just didnt want things to change, but now they must, and with this new intent to find a solution, the answer will appear. -
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 11:02 AMPerhaps we are going about it backwards.
What would happen if we systematically stopped using machines and products that relied on oil for fuel or raw material.
These things were not here in the distant past and we got along.
If they weren't used now, we would still get along.
It seems that the present path is to find a better way FIRST and then replace the oil.
Maybe it would work if we stopped with the oil NOW and replacement methods and technologies would appear. -
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 12:29 PMI like this line of thinking, it doesnt seem like we could absorb the costs of such a transition, but this reversal approach is the type of creative thinking that will find us an answer. -
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 2:35 PMI'm with you both there. But the rest of "US" (or them) is a little bit different. They, for the most part, are not ready to switch cold turkey.
I would add to the push forward, do it now!
Do it yourself. Encourage others to cut the cord in ANY way possible..
It will shorten the time it takes to reclaim the future from their/our addiction to oil.
If so many industries weren't so dependent it might easier. But it just isn't so. It can be, but it isn't ready yet.
The present IS up to you and me and anyone who really gives a shit. Talk is the easy part.
There are those of us who will be the first on our block to produce our our power (off grid) and build the vehicles to use renewable sources.
Keep the dialog going, it really helps to be positive.
"Be the change........"
"Keep the dream alive, live green" -
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 8:11 PMPopulation reduction is really the only way... -
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Wed, May 13, 2009 - 8:41 PM"Population reduction is really the only way..."
Not to pick on you,
but there is no...... "only way"!
Less fucking doesn't change the fact that we want energy or how we get it.
There needs to a concerted "all doors" approach to move us off the oil based world we have created.
And if can make it we can break it down and rebuild it anyway we want.
Do something to reduce and renew and it will change. -
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Thu, May 14, 2009 - 8:47 AMpersonally, I found non-use or less-use to be the best solution for me.
Hang dry clothes instead of machine drying; do you really *need* 3 phones in the house, all with chargers?; walk, don't drive - or carpool if you must; bbq instead of oven/stove cooking; use natural daylight instead of lighting, ie sleep at night, work during the day; use rechargeable batteries instead of throw-aways; how often do you use your electric appliances - blender, hairdryer, fan, etc do you really need them? can you share with others?
My power usage in the last decade has dropped by 70-80% by choice and my power bills reflect that. Re-use and re-cycle ideas are great, but really reducing your use is the way to go. How many battery-powered objects do you carry on your body daily? weekly? monthly? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Thu, May 14, 2009 - 5:55 PMI've also been paying more attention to my electricity use. Turning things off, dimming lights, wearing sweaters inside in the winter . I think I've knocked off a good 30% of the electrical bill.
Since I got rid of my car and just use a co-op car when really needed along with walking and public transportation, I've reduced transportation costs by 30%.
My quality of life has improved and I haven't missed any of my past habits.
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 4:39 AM"Not to pick on you,
but there is no...... "only way"!"
I think this point is very important. The way to find solutions is to think outside the box, not build a new box.
I don't think that anyone here will disagree with the idea that, if we were tackling this from an energy production point of view, a diverse portfolio of energy sources would be the best way to make the numbers balance as oil is removed.
That being the case, why would we likewise box ourselves in by not presenting a diverse portfolio of solutions to other parts of the problem?
One of the things that has made us so dependent on oil is that we have a monoculture of transport fuels: Diesel, and all grades of gasoline, all come from oil. Ethanol, though not oil derived, is dependent on factory agriculture, which, in turn, is dependent on transport fuels (usually diesel) derived from oil.
In short, we are where we are because we haven't diversified our thinking.
Population control is important (and clearly, as mentioned already, I believe in the idea), but it is not sufficient, neither is it the only way. It needs to be combined with changes in our eating habits (organics, locavorism, vegetarianism -- note the diversity of ideas!), changes in our travel habits (live closer to work, commute by mass transit, bike, walk, drive a hybrid or electric car, or just a really efficient one, take the train instead of flying, etc), and also f ind better ways to power the things we do.
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 7:41 AMNow this thread is jammin'
Lets be all we can be. It's our world lets own it and fix it. (sounding like a army ad lol!)
Check the carbon "boot print" and trim trim trim.
The ball is rollin !!!
(bdl showing much glee as he see's real time growth in green energy production)
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 9:14 AMIn the spirit of thinking outside of the box, that we can't find the answers with the level of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place...quoting others of course...
If we knew without out a doubt that there was no solution, we even tried to find a solution, but to support 6 Billion exponentially multiplying redundant biological human monkeys, no source of energy could support us, and then that the environment was already collapsing not by any fault of our own according to the conservative experts, but by a natural cycle the earth performs a cleansing every thousand of years, lest the macroscopic organisms become too smart for their own good, what would our approach be then? Ok, I tried, to spin it’s on its tail, and I got nothing for now…. Now we just have to wait for the answer, we will find an answer, this I know because we are waking up.
ON another note, how in the world did that little man named George Bush get away with the last 8 years!? And if we get another president like him, and have no power to kick him out, we are doomed for sure. -
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Re: Is Renewable Energy Enough??
Fri, May 15, 2009 - 1:45 PMFocusing in on renewables is a must, more thought to personal use and generation would help.
I see even San Bernardio is installing solar generators as we type. So more is better in this case.
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