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I am planning to build panels, over time, to use with
a charge controller to charge a 12v battery bank.
I understand the series/parallel principle, but
my question is...
I should, should I not, shoot for 14-17 volts from each panel
to help make up for potential sub-prime sun exposure?
any input is appriciated
a charge controller to charge a 12v battery bank.
I understand the series/parallel principle, but
my question is...
I should, should I not, shoot for 14-17 volts from each panel
to help make up for potential sub-prime sun exposure?
any input is appriciated
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Wed, March 18, 2009 - 4:23 PMYou want more Watts. And more Amps.
Most panels put out 15v so charging can ocurr.
The more panels the better. -
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Wed, March 18, 2009 - 4:48 PMthanks.
I probably will not buy good batteries
or a bigger inverter untill I have several
panels built and tested.
but you gotta start somewhere! -
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Wed, March 18, 2009 - 10:36 PM<but you gotta start somewhere! >
Yes, if we all make the move to self generating, lots of good things will happen.
I have a system that has been in place since 1994. It's small but it provides all that power I need.
There are a lot of good books about systems at most libraries.
Check it out and make some power!!!
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Wed, March 18, 2009 - 4:51 PMWhat cells are yout going to use. Poly silicon?
Actually the typical panel is wired with 36 cells to give you a voltage of about 18 volts when measured open circuit. The voltages drops when you put the cells under load. Check out a V-I plot and you will see what I mean. That is why you go for at least 18 volts so that under load you can still charge. Don't forget you will also have a voltage drop through your charge controller. Panels are really rated for full sun. If you have cloudy conditions you probably won't have enough voltage to charge. Also from the V-I curve you can see that there is a 'knee' where if you draw too many amps you get zero volts very fast. That is why they build those more expensive MPPT charge controllers. -
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Fri, March 20, 2009 - 5:08 PM"What cells are you going to use. Poly silicon? "
most likely.
"Actually the typical panel is wired with 36 cells to give you a voltage of about 18 volts when measured open circuit. "
great- I thought I had read something like this somewhere before.
I have VERY little power usage as it is...
3- 13 watt CFL bulbs part time, a laptop part time and a small fridge that uses 290kWh per year.
I would be heating and cooking with wood and propane.
I will probably have a fuel generator as well, and I am presently building a bike generator using vehicle alternators.
I can only hope to find a piece of land with a nice stream,but I can more reliably assume that it will be hit with sunshine!
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Fri, March 20, 2009 - 5:41 PMJust a thought but lose the "small fridge that uses 290kWh per year"
Get a propane one, you'll be much happier. -
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Fri, March 20, 2009 - 6:05 PMNo the goal is to move away from fossil fuel. -
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Fri, March 20, 2009 - 6:35 PM<No the goal is to move away from fossil fuel. >
Huh?
Propane is not a "fossil fuel" it's a natural gas. (pulled from Methane) And the "frig" is not a combustion engine. It doesn't put out pollutants. It's more like a propane heater.
We'd all have to stop farting if that's the goal! lol! -
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Fri, March 20, 2009 - 8:54 PMNatural gas (from the ground) is fossil fuel. You don't make propane from methane. Wrong number of carbons and hydrogens, look it up. -
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Fri, March 20, 2009 - 9:37 PM"Natural gas (from the ground) is fossil fuel. You don't make propane from methane"
You are half right, I looked it up. Thanks
"Propane comes from natural gas and petroleum
wells. Approximately half of the propane used in the
United States comes from raw natural gas. Raw
natural gas is about 90 percent methane, five percent
propane, and five percent other gases. The propane
is separated from the other gases at a natural gas
processing plant"
"Propane is also instrumental in providing off-the-grid refrigeration, usually by means of a gas absorption refrigerator.
Blends of pure, dry "isopropane" (R-290a) (commercial term used to describe isobutane/propane mixtures) and isobutane (R-600a) have negligible Ozone depletion potential and very low Global Warming Potential and can serve as a functional replacement for R-12, R-22, R-134a, and other chlorofluorocarbon or hydrofluorocarbon refrigerants in conventional stationary refrigeration and air conditioning systems." -
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Sat, March 21, 2009 - 5:09 AMNatural gas, oil and coal are all fossil fuels. They all have certain properties in common: They result from the decay of ancient organic matter*, they consist of hydrocarbon chains, and they release carbon dioxide when burnt.
(*Methane can be produced pretty quickly, making it an exception, though most sources of methane are fossil in origin)
The question of pollutants is a matter of whether or not you consider carbon dioxide to be a pollutant. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Sat, March 21, 2009 - 7:18 AM<The question of pollutants is a matter of whether or not you consider carbon dioxide to be a pollutant. >
Does that mean we have to stop breathing to be "green" lol! I think to be really "green" maybe so! lol!
<most sources of methane are fossil in origin >
Does that mean I'm an old fart?? (I've been up all night.....lol!!) I'll be methane tomorrow.
Thanks Glenn, all data welcome.............
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Sun, March 22, 2009 - 6:22 AMThanks for the chuckle, and for being good-humoured about it. -
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Sun, March 22, 2009 - 4:38 PMI do try. Stay tuned for a new project for this years.......................
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Fri, March 20, 2009 - 6:09 PMThe problem isn't what you are going to run but how discharged your batteries are. A battery that is low (and auto batteries should never go below 80%) will have a large charging current. That will pull down the voltage of a panel and why you need a charge controller to limit charging current. As well as turn it off when the batteries are charged.
I was looking for a cheap source of poly cells to build a panel myself. i couldn't find any that would actually be cheaper than buying a panel. So I am now looking at a 60W panel that is about 1/4 the cost of a poly cell panel. It is half the wattage for the same sq. meters but a quarter the price. Also it is a 60v panel so you can use higher voltage battery packs and save on the IR loss. -
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Fri, March 20, 2009 - 8:50 PM
so if I AM going to go 12v...
would you suggest using
a- 12v deep-cycle RV batteries
or
b- 6v deep-cycles paired in series
my regular-old car batteries are just for "practice"
also, re- the fridge....
I can generate electricity in several different ways for free once the setups are in place
however I will always need to pay money for propane. -
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Fri, March 20, 2009 - 8:59 PMA lot of what is called a deep discharge battery is actually not. What you need to look for is a AGM battery that is rated for 80% discharge. If it is 12 or 6 really doesn't make any difference. It's all about the plate size and construction.
It's hard to really practice with a car battery because you don't have that much usuable power available. Remember if you drain it more than 20% you start to damage the battery. So you never really get taht much out and you don't spend a lot of time topping it off. So you won't know how your system does in a real life application.
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Re: charging panels
Mon, March 23, 2009 - 10:02 AMGentlemen......
What is your take on these puppies???
www.us.schott.com/photovolt...index.html
Not cheap, but they rock! -
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Re: charging panels
Mon, March 23, 2009 - 3:43 PMI like the higher voltage. Nice power output. What's the price? -
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Re: charging panels
Mon, March 23, 2009 - 6:18 PMAffordable Solar has them at @ $1,200 a panel plus shipping (roughly 3.99 a watt) but frankly I am not thrilled with either the higher voltage or more importantly the size, they are a pain to ship in pairs and very expensive by pallet. The voltage is not that big an issue though it is not compatible with many of the direct grid inverters out there right now but you could send it through a controller first but that is an added expense.
I prefer their smaller 175 watt 24 volt panel, especially to use with the enphase microinverter I mentioned in the other thread but Affordable doesn't seem to carry the smaller panel anymore.
www.us.schott.com/photovolt...0-011d.pdf
Check out the price per watt comparison on this page as well as the bottom line price and then also compare the actual tech specs on the manufacture.
www.affordable-solar.com/solar...ls.htm
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Fri, April 17, 2009 - 6:17 AMWith solar panels,you don't set the voltage to anything. Your regulator looks after all this.
Old regulators threw away the excess voltage when the sun was shining and didn't work when it was too low. New regulators convert too high/too low voltage to just right voltage.
As to batteries,the practical advice is to have the fewest parallel strings, because a faulty one drags everything else down to its level, aka can drain everything else. One is idea, but no backup, so my 2c is the duplicate everything, so if one fails, the other is still working whle you repair the other.
Parallel/serial is really irrelevant. How much capacity do you need? Volt voltage is your battery bank going to be? What voltages are your inverters and/or devices?
You buy DEEP DISCHARGE batteries and deep-discharge batteries only. Marine batteries are not deep discharge. Over hear, if it has a CCA battery, then it is a car starter battery. what you want is the AmpHr rating.
I buy Trojan Brand.
Capacity determines what you get. i would suggest buying a 12V trojan deep discharge of the biggest capacity that you can move. That is the real gotcha, how are you going to move it about, to position it, to connect it, to remove if for testing, for repair, etc, etc.
12V 100AmpHour are fairly common, so it might be a good idea to get one and a panel or two and a regulator and play around and learn. Hint, get a battery meter and take voltages all the time. It helps work out an approximate idea of what state your battery is in. Find and read the Bill Harden/WArden Lead Acid battery FAQ on the net.
A good panel, some sun, etc, should allow you to run a 20watt light, radio and smalllish fan each day.
If you read the FAQ, it will explain how that 100AmpHour battery only is 50Amphour capacity.
Learn about panel postitioning, decide on tracking, yes or not,
If you wanted 200Amphour capacity, then look at 2 x 6V 200Amphour batteries, or even 6x2V 200aphour batteries. That 12V 100aphour weighs ta bout 35Kg (77?lbs).
Happy reading.
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Re: target voltage for 12v charging panels
Fri, April 17, 2009 - 12:57 PMThank for the info.........
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