Alternative to so-called mainstream gay culture? I'm not even sure I know what that means anymore. I know I don't have much interest in gay bars and such, but I'm fine with gay culture. I just don't feel there's much for me there. I'm too busy living Life I guess.
I'm more into my small community of close, freaky friends out here in the burbs of DC, where I live. Radical Faeries, Gay Metalheads, and moutain biking nuts like me.....are more my cup of tea.
Why do You feel like you're alternative? Why did you take an interest in joining this tribe? What direction, if any would you like to see it take? We have severial new members here now and this tribe has been kinda quiet for a while. So what can we do to make it more interesting?
Please express yourself. This tribe is for YOU. Please participate.
Thanks!
I'm more into my small community of close, freaky friends out here in the burbs of DC, where I live. Radical Faeries, Gay Metalheads, and moutain biking nuts like me.....are more my cup of tea.
Why do You feel like you're alternative? Why did you take an interest in joining this tribe? What direction, if any would you like to see it take? We have severial new members here now and this tribe has been kinda quiet for a while. So what can we do to make it more interesting?
Please express yourself. This tribe is for YOU. Please participate.
Thanks!
posted by:
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Washington, D.C.
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Wed, January 30, 2008 - 1:06 PMgood question, probably I joined to explore the more devious side of my sexuality and to find kindred spirits. All my life I considered myself as normal while I find that the majority of gay guys continually excuse there sexuality and try to justify their being gay by "straight" standards and to fit in with Judeo-Christian and other religious moralities. I feel that my life style is neither bad nor immoral as long as I do no harm to anyone, my life does not have to follow any sort of guide lines imposed by society. Being "older" I have lived through changing laws, gay liberation and the aids epidemic, but nothing ever made me feel like a freak or outcast, because as I said before, I always felt normal and if others could not cope with me as a person, I just could not be bothered communicating with them, because I believe that it is their problem, not mine. Having said all this, I can honestly say that I have never ever felt any serious discrimination in my life. I guess this makes me an alternative gay freak :) -
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Wed, January 30, 2008 - 1:49 PMI would definitely have to agree with Arco. . . I feel alternative in that I really dont try to fit into the societal norm for what it means to be queer. And also, along with that, I dont apologize for my queerness or feel bad about it because its just another one of the many varied expressions and diversities of humanity. I find myself alternative in that I dont limit myself by the false univocal heteronormativity that tries impose what sexuality, gender expression, identity lables, etc. are ok to adopt and make your own. I also find myself as alternative in that I dont allow the queer culture that straight communities try to limit us by through media representation limit my identity. To be queer (gay,bi,lesbian,trans,variant in any way, shape, or form, etc) is not only to be a crazy party boy thats only interested in getting laid and the going-ons of the fasion industry. I find comfort in being able to break the stereotypes and, though my own being, make people question what it actually means to be queer.
I'm not saying that being a crazy party boy is wrong or immoral in any way - harm none and do what you will - but its just not me. . . its not the person i feel like i have to succumb to being just because thats the only representation queerness gets in mass media. I would rather meditate in the rain, or dance naked in the moonlight then go to some random party and day! -
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Thu, February 7, 2008 - 1:04 PMPERCEPTION -
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 2:37 AMDoes it make me alternative that I noticed the redundancy in the group title? I used to have a cd by a band called the Department of Redundancy Department.
Anyway I think anyone joining this group feels that they deviate from gay stereotypes. I've always found it strange how, often people adapt an individualist way of life by embracing a group of individualists who are just like themselves. conversely every one likes to be special don't they .. don't we?
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 8:13 AM> people adapt an individualist way of life by embracing a group of individualists who are just like themselves
Sorta like throwing ourselves together into a "miscellaneous" drawer... our only commonality being our uncommonness... -
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 5:42 PM
I've always been amused at genre's of music, especially that in heavy rotation on corporate radio. R&B which stood for Rhythm and Blues for the most part is a matter of some one crooning. No rhythm and nothing even remotely related to the blues. Just as oddly there was a time when "alternative" music wasn't a genre' Saying your an "alternative" band was once a guarantee the general populous, simply ignored you.
HOLY SMOKES! given that model does that mean that alternative gay people are given to a particular aesthetic just as Castro clones, leather daddies, bears, or drag queens? I hate it when things weird and on the fringes become the status quo. I was watching a documentary about George Clinton and the Funkadelics the other night and yes this is another typical example of a a group of people marching to their own weird beat (quite literally) and years later he's playing my little town, billed as classic R&B.
The horror! The horror!!!
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 10:18 PMYou pretty much hit the nail on the head, Mudd. Just like the redundancy in the title of this tribe (which btw is ment to be rather tongue-in-cheek)!
I suspect that the "Castro clones, leather daddies, bears, and drag queens" are pretty much in the minority these days. I think most gay folk ARE more in the "alternative" catagory. Basically people are people. We each see ourselves as unique, yet most of us strive to find some commonality in which to relate on. It can get lonely being a little too far off in left field ya know. ;-) -
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Fri, February 8, 2008 - 10:28 PMMy understanding of the clone phenomenon of the '70s was that it served as a uniform, to express solidarity (and to advertise...).
We don't have the same need these days, so clonehood isn't as necessary--sort of the way Radical Faeries wouldn't need as badly to be "invented," if you will, in 2008 as we needed it in 1978... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 12:15 AM"We don't have the same need these days, so clonehood isn't as necessary--"
Respectfully disagree. The gay "community" is full of clones, like everything else, they're just more specialized these days. Take the so-called "bear", for example. They all look exactly the same! What's worse, go to a bear gathering. If you're not a bear, expect to be socially ostracized, etc. I had a skinny friend who went to Lazy Bear and he was completely traumatized by the obnoxious and rude way he was treated by all these unleashed fat queens just because he's not about to keel over dead from a coronary thrombosis or is covered with a thick layer of hair.
The gay community appears to me to be nothing but little cliques of people who look and dress exactly alike, standing around, posing here and there. It's all kind of lame and retarded. I've never understood the desire or need to be friends only with people who dress and act exactly the same way I do, but then I kinda got over the whole clique thing when I left high school. In my experience, most gay men haven't. Most gay men are emotionally about 13 years old. -
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 3:49 AMI have never understood, why homo's have to feel like a family or why we have to define ouselves to ourselves. As far as am concerned I am a male, I do male things, and I am gay. The rest of the world doesn't care if I am VGL, Top, Alt, Bear Burner Faerie Goddess........why do homo's feel it is important?
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family outcasts
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 7:53 AMMany people that are gay are ostracized dramatically or subtly by their biological family and the community in which they grew up in. I think the community is rare that embraces a young gay child and celebrates/supports his/her sexuality. Whereas heterosexuality is systematically endorsed.
I have been a part of several weekend-long experiences where people over the course of the weekend completely dropped their guard and became vulnerable,open,relaxed and completely themselves. Why? Because they felt safe and at home in a group of 130 kind and loving gay men that without speaking understood part of how they felt. What an amazing relief to just -be-.
If you have found your loving family then -Yay, for you! (sincerely not sarcastically) but please acknowledge for many gay people from when they were very small they have felt ostracized with no way to feel a real sense of love and belonging and have sought out support from the gay community. You can give them that can't you - even if you don't need to participate yourself? -
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Re: family outcasts
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 8:07 AMI admit I can easily see where you're coming from. Even though I never wanted any part of the gay cliques mentioned earlier, I did however jump at the chance to be a part of the Radical Faeries. I finally found the community I guess I must have been searching for. I just didn't know it until I arrived.
Truthfully I don't dislike anyone really. I keep my distant from some folks and activities I'm not interested in. But short of a person being involved in self-distructive behavior, I'm okay with everyone. I haven't forgotten that there was a point in ALL our lives, during our youth, where we were very accepting of others and eager to have new experiances. But all that changes for many...
It's really never too late to take back some of that innocense. :-)
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 3:59 AM"I had a skinny friend who went to Lazy Bear and he was completely traumatized by the obnoxious and rude way he was treated by all these unleashed fat queens just because he's not about to keel over dead from a coronary thrombosis or is covered with a thick layer of hair."
That's just nasty...... and mildly offensive. Your opinion of overweight people reflects your opinion of yourself.
I am sure that not every fat queen about to die (WTF), is obnoxious and rude, maybe your "friend", thought his skinny butt was going to be enough, and was turned down because of his attitude.
"What's worse, go to a bear gathering. If you're not a bear, expect to be socially ostracized, etc" - overweight people never feel ostrich sized. Comments like "fat queens about to keel over" is not an ostracizing comment at all......
Angry, I find your post interesting enought to respond to. I am not really upset by your words, I mean no disrespect of your opinions or feeling. I'm just sharing mine. -
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 10:25 AM"That's just nasty...... and mildly offensive. Your opinion of overweight people reflects your opinion of yourself."
*rolling my eyes* Any attempt to psychoanalyze me based on one hyperbolic post will be soundly rejected. I find people who make statements like the one you just posted are typically manipulative and basically evil. Are you evil, Arne? Are you a "bear"? Did I offend your bear sensibilities by offensively describing members of the "bear community" as fat and hairy? I don't get it. I thought the whole point of being a bear was to embrace one's hairy fat. Clearly I need to go back to lesbian school to learn the latest trends in poststructural political correctness.
My scrawny friend is painfully shy and does not sport a Castro queen attitude like the one you describe. Nice subtle generalization there, Arne. Accuse me of generalization while doing it yourself. Neat! He was specifically scoped out for torment because he made the mistake of congregating with a group of men whose raison d'etre is to establish a counter point to the manly muscleman worship they perceive as prevalent among us queers. This group of men, in their hairy fat uniforms, saw my friend as "other", and proceeded to verbally, emotionally, and physically abuse him. As a result, he HATES bears. I don't hate them, I just think the whole bear thing is silly.
By the way, I'm sure many overweight people feel "ostrich sized", if they didn't, the world would be devoid of Richard Simmons and Susan Powter and we'd all be worse off for it. -
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 3:14 PMclearly my psychoanalytic statements hit you where it hurts.
I was just commenting on your post. I may be evil, I have yet to discover that however. -
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 3:24 PMYou're evil, Arne, I can assure you of that. E-VIL! -
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 4:07 PM-You're evil, Arne, I can assure you of that. E-VIL!-
Are you quoting The Birds.
CRAZY LADY:They say this didn't start happening until YOU arrived. I think your evil! EEEEEVIL!
TIPPI HEDREN's RESPONSE: (very loud SLAP across the face) - my FAVE scene. -
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Re: What makes you "alternative?"
Sun, February 10, 2008 - 6:27 AMStill my favorite Hitchcock movie ever! :-)
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Always rebelling is just as boring as always complying
Sat, February 9, 2008 - 7:32 AMOne thing about this group that I have found is that most posts are laced with anger and defensiveness. Which I think is appropriate when living in a culture where you are seen as a 2nd class citizen with limited rights - and that said I think it is important to acknowledge that anger because it can really eat you up inside.
I am interested in this group because the way I feel -alternative- is that I am not promiscuous. It is something I have always thought was a standard in gay culture, a way of even social networking. Most of the gay guys I know have a circle of friends most of which are ex-boyfriends or people they have slept with. I love sex and mostly feel it has been trivialized. These feeling of course have complicated my relationships of all kinds.
I have felt so much pressure, it has been hard to find the happy medium that I want. I am way more interested in finding what works for me as an individual whether it be conforming-rebelling- or some kind of mixture.
