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Hello all...I've been married for 2 years and been with her for 4 years. We've just finished a year trip in Latin America together and are taking some alone time, working on different farms. During that time, she made a strong connection with another man, a connection which brought up some issues for her, leaving us at a crossroads. The core issue seems to be independence and a committed marriage seems to exclude a degree of independence. So how do you balance commitment and independence?
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Re: Trouble with Monogamy
Sat, March 21, 2009 - 11:49 PMI don't see a problem between the two. My lady is completely independent... she stays at my side because it is where she wants to be. She has made a choice... there is no dependence, just the two of us walking side by side...
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Re: Trouble with Monogamy
Sun, March 22, 2009 - 7:30 AMThanks for the reply, SpiritFlame...I'd like to know more about what you say. My Skeptic finds it hard to believe, a relationship with NO dependence. Please realize that I'm inquiring further to know more about how such a relationship is possible, not to question yours. From my experience, a committed relationship provides a support structure and I have trouble seeing the difference between support and dependence, although I feel that there is a difference. For example, a relationship usually provides a feeling of comfort and security. How do you keep that from being dependent? It's so easy to take that security, comfort for granted and then, I think, that leads to dependence. If you're unconsciously counting on those feelings to be there, then aren't you dependent on them? Do you see where I'm going with this? Any more thoughts? -
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Re: Trouble with Monogamy
Sun, March 22, 2009 - 8:56 AMI have been with my husband for ~ 10 years, been married for almost 8. I don't think I have ever thought of our relationship as structured or based on security and comfort. Heck...using "structure" at all just doesn't seem right.
Rather it feels like two people who love each other, respect each other and are the best of friends. We support each other in seeking out what is best for the other and have each others backs for anything that life throws at us. I can't speak for all monogamous relationships and I can tell you I have never had one before this one that didn't have some inner struggle. But yes...you can have a monogamous relationship that is nurturing to both parties.
Outlining what is or isn't a relationship mono, poly, or whatever won't detail the inner people involved in that relationship. Some poly relationships I have seen were as completely unhealthy to the people involved as a monogamous relationship that was struggling to keep together "for the sake of the kids". Then again, some poly relationships, have flourished and was balanced and at peace.
It depends on the people involved. -
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Re: Trouble with Monogamy
Sun, March 22, 2009 - 11:32 AMBratCat,
I agree with you that structuring a relationship to fill needs of security and comfort doesn't seem right. I'd say it's unhealthy. If I gave the impression that we've based our relationship on those needs, I have not communicated clearly. We've actually based our relationship on developing more and more freedom from ourselves and the world around us. We want very much for our marriage to be about growth and evolution, not stagnation and dependency. What I was trying to say is, from my experience, comfort and security are a natural by-product of a healthy relationship. And from there, I think it's not far until dependency. Is any degree of dependency acceptable in a healthy relationship? -
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Re: Trouble with Monogamy
Sun, March 22, 2009 - 6:18 PMYou didn't give me the impresson that you based YOUR relationship on security and comfort. But it seemed opined that monogamy in general is based on that. I was just saying while I have seen that in relationships, it doesn't seem mutually exclusive to monogamous ones and it does not have to occur at all to be in a commitment. I just have no frame of reference for your question I am guessing. The idea that I cannot grow and evolve as an individual within my marriage is foreign.
When you say that comfort and security is a by-product of a healthy relationship that is kind of a boxy definition. When I think about it, I suppose I have to say I am comfortable and feel secure, but those are not primary thoughts in my mind when I talk about my relationship. First is love, then friendship, trust and happiness. So if I am happy, in love with my best friend who trusts me as much as I trust him, I cannot say that the comfort and security are negative by-products. If there wasn't love, happiness, friendship and/or trust but only comfort and security, I agree...there is an unhealthy aspect to such a relationship that could be the dependence you are thinking about -
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Re: Trouble with Monogamy
Sun, March 22, 2009 - 8:36 PMVery well said.
I'm focusing on security and comfort right now because in my mind they work against growth and evolution, which seem to be part of my current predicament. She feels that she would grow more if she was independent. At the moment, at the end of our trip, we don't have much of anything in the way of separate lives and I guess I'm thinking that we'd be able to be more independent, then grow more, if we weren't so secure or comfortable. (This development has removed all problems of security and comfort overdoses and I do feel myself growing, seeing myself, my behavior, aspects of our relationship in a new light).
I think of comfort more so than security. I see security as essential to growth. But security soon invites comfort, and I think once someone's too comfortable, they're not evolving. It's so easy to slip into comfortable patterns with one's self and with a partner. From my experience, every pattern becomes rigid and stale, inhibiting growth. No pattern is the pattern.
What do you think? -
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Re: Trouble with Monogamy
Mon, March 23, 2009 - 6:51 AMI think you are right on with patterns if there is a lack of an essential foundation. Staying within a comfort zone can be restricting if you let it, or it can be a safe harbor when things go awry. But that is true of any kind of life pattern, and not really only a relationship issue. If one clings to safety and comfort without anything else there, stagnation happens.
Now this question I understand, but I don't have any answers in how you overcome it. I have felt exactly what you are talking about in previous relationships, but in my mind it was more a feeling the relationship had run its course and it was time to move on. The whole "if you love something, set it free..." applied. There were heartbreaks and rough times, but was best for all concerned in the end. There has been a karmic energy to it that is tough to explain.
Since I met my husband, it has been more like two charged particles that give each other more push and energy than we would have alone. There is a pattern to it, sure, but it changes the pattern of the rest of our lives. We can grow togther and in our own individual ways, circling and pushing and cheering each other forward.
I guess think about what kind of evolution are you talking about. Growing and becoming stronger or more than who you are may have little to do with your relationship. Can you see yourself pushing where you want to go with your wife supporting you and her supporting you?
I believe in a true committment you should be constistantly helping your partner to be his or her best self. If that is not happening, the indivduals flail, can't find their foothold and can dive to the safety net and comfort of the pattern you are referring to. In this case, there is a lack of something that made the individual not feel the energy of the essential bond.
At least that is how I view it as seen with much hindsight on previous experiences. -
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Re: Trouble with Monogamy
Mon, March 23, 2009 - 11:58 AMThanks again. Your posts help to change my focus.
I don't want to give the impression that stagnation is the first word to describe our relationship. We've both grown in amazing ways while together. Right now, it feels like our lives have become too much of one life. For the past year, we've had not much individuality. It's for this, I feel, that she may feel stagnation. I've tossed the question of our relationship over and over through my head. Is it finished? Although I find it difficult to come up with a clear answer sometimes, when I listen my heart tells me that there is much more for us to do together. At other times, fear tells me that it's finished, but I have seen this to be nothing more than fear manipulating me. To be honest, I'm afraid of being in a successful, healthy marriage. I have this fear to be that kind of man. All of this I know to be hogwash, fear eats fear and becomes Fear.
I like your metaphor of 2 charged particles. Very beautiful. I can see my wife supporting me and I can see myself being supported. A serious issue for me is uncertainty about what I want to do. Too long wandering around has given me terrible ADD of the soul. So for now, our relationship is the root for the both of us. Our lives revolve around it--where we go and when we go there. That doesn't seem too healthy, does it? We're nomadic people and that throws many curve balls.
I totally agree with what you have to say about constantly helping your partner. Although I'm not perfect and there are times when I could help more, I feel that we do help each other alot. She's so supportive of me and some of the things I am working through and I'm an excellent listener and encourager for her. I don't want to give the impression that I think we're a perfect couple, but I also don't want you to think that we're finished. Perhaps we are and I'm just being stubborn, but I believe. I've got faith in us. We're an excellent team together!
In your marriage now, were there ups and downs? Growing closer, growing apart, growing closer? It seems to me that marriage is a constant flux, an ever-changing dynamic with another person and if you don't keep up, well.... -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Trouble with Monogamy
Mon, March 23, 2009 - 1:39 PMAnd this just in...
She has just told me that she needs a serious separation. She's finally realized that she needs to live and experience life alone as a woman. I understand totally. My heart tells me it's exactly what she needs. It's hard, but I'm happy for her. Our future is uncertain, but there is always hope. We will meet again sometime, somewhere. Now, to find that rock to crawl under....
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Re: Trouble with Monogamy
Sun, March 29, 2009 - 8:24 AMA friend passed this site on to me, about 2 days after I could've really used it. Really interesting stuff and it speaks to this feeling of stagnation...particularly the article called the Coolidge Effect
www.reuniting.info/
Peace
