What are reasons that you oppose Globalization?
Personally, I am in favor of humanity realizing that we are all one people, and I support promoting voluntary mutual aid across international boundaries. However, Globalization from what I have seen of it is less about Unity and Equality of all people, and more about Corporate run institutions setting themselves up as above the law of nation states and handing themselves power over world trade so that they can set the rules in their own favor. These corporations exploit the weak and poor, and harm our environment. From what I have studied about the people pushing for globalization, there is nothing progressive or good about it, even if thats what it is being sold as. Evidence of this can be seen in how eager the first world nations are to push for the WTO, and how its the poorer nations to have backed out of the deal. Good for them.
There are so many issues tied up into globalization. Many of them are inspired by an anti-capitalist or environmentalist perspective. Still, there are many on the right as well who oppose it for reasons of national sovereignty. So what are your reasons for opposing Globalization?
Personally, I am in favor of humanity realizing that we are all one people, and I support promoting voluntary mutual aid across international boundaries. However, Globalization from what I have seen of it is less about Unity and Equality of all people, and more about Corporate run institutions setting themselves up as above the law of nation states and handing themselves power over world trade so that they can set the rules in their own favor. These corporations exploit the weak and poor, and harm our environment. From what I have studied about the people pushing for globalization, there is nothing progressive or good about it, even if thats what it is being sold as. Evidence of this can be seen in how eager the first world nations are to push for the WTO, and how its the poorer nations to have backed out of the deal. Good for them.
There are so many issues tied up into globalization. Many of them are inspired by an anti-capitalist or environmentalist perspective. Still, there are many on the right as well who oppose it for reasons of national sovereignty. So what are your reasons for opposing Globalization?
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 1:48 PMGlobalization has brought us borrowed time with interest that a credit card company would envy. It has enabled oil dependency, which has brought us to the Mideast and gulf regions which in turn brought the collapse of the towers which brought us to fascism It brought us WTO, NAFTA and other so call free trade to countries that are forced developing nation to buy heavily subsidized US goods which intern causes people in developing nations to loose work and illegally immigrate to the US and become imprisoned. Globalization is also the chief cause of starvation in most of the world, which doesn't bother many people here because they are foriegners and they aren't white. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 1:59 PMSomebody on the Politics tribe recently was advocating a one world currency as a solution to the worlds economic inequality....what a joke. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 4:19 PMOh spread the misery why don't we. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 4:40 PMi oppose it because of some of the reasons youve allready mentioned... but also because of jsut the simple economy of scale idea, and because i am a bioregionalist, with dreams of bioregional based communities succeding from anti-ecological political boundries... call me a bit utopian but i feel that bioregionalism is the only option for planetary survival...
one interesting question i allways think about is what was and is the base motivation for globalization what was the spark that set that fire in the first place? if we go way way back that is...
i mean maybe even before rome... -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 5:16 PMI am pretty fond of the idea of bioregionalism myself. Now I have nothing against international solidarity or large scale but decentralized confederation systems, but I feel that society should be locally self governed and not remotely ruled by an elite super class so far removed from our individual communities that they have no sense of of our needs and little ability to do anything but force us to conform to their system, most likely for their own ambitions of power and greed. Even a noble world leader has little perspective on the needs of each and every small village, and hoping for a noble world leader is like hoping for the united states to give up Imperialism.
Do you happen to have any web design skills? Im actually putting together a separate project that has a lot to do with intentional communities and survival skills and the promotion of mutual aid. I have one friend who said he would help me out, but we may end up needing more help with the design. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 8:33 PMi really wish i did have web page design skills... honestly im starting to out grow even tribes... and need better options web page wise... so yeah you and me both...
but no i agree with you totaly!
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 9:32 PMThe corporatist homogenization of culture has destroyed any future for folk traditions...including Jazz- the one positive contribution to the world in the last century, as well as healing arts and other spiritually-based tools which, til lately, were handed down without compensation via the corporate 'marketplace'.
A society based less on opportunism and more on craft, living in rhythm with the seasons, and placing cooperation on a local level above the 'edgy' competition running formally 'mellow' cities such as SF, Seattle and Portland seems lost forever. Just add these to the list....:( -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 10:32 PM<Somebody on the Politics tribe recently was advocating a one world currency as a solution to the worlds economic inequality....what a joke.>
I actually like the idea of a single currency for the world. Not as a means of control but as a means of taking control back.
I have been advocating for some time now the need for an alternative currency that is owned and operated if you will be the people. One that gives incentives for not hoarding (demmurage based0 one that gives incentives for taking care of the environment (like the Terra).
I think this currency should be managed without any banking system (banks and interest are evil and are the root cause of many problems in the world). A currency that is really all software but with no central computers, everybody carries it in their pocket like coins but can send it around the world to facilitate trade. No central computers means no tracking, no identity theft and no central banks, hell no banks at all.
It is not a one world currency that I worry about it is the multinational companies that want to turn the globe into a slave labor camp, a place to extract money from debt laden consumers and a place to trash with pollution. This is the threat of globalization that I see a growing corporate elite that have the world to hide in and a world of laws to use against the rest of the population. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 10:56 PMI dont have a problem with international currencies, especially with systems like the Terra. I am concerned however about the notion of abolishing other systems of trade, as I dont believe this could be accomplished world wide without some kind of authoritarian measure. Would an international currency mean that everybody would be forced to use it? What about those who have their own unique ideas about internal economics? I think people should have the option to opt out of a one world currency, and if it requires total abolition of other currencies then I would say its as good as a lost cause. While I am not a fan of Nationalism, I am even less a fan of Imperialism.
Even more concerning then the idea of transnational currency is who is behind the movement towards globalization and to what ends? Likely not the humanitarian ideals that its being sold as.
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 10:59 PMAlso, might we be looking at a future where international trade is less important than localized production? -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Tue, June 26, 2007 - 11:42 PMAny currency must be done at the community level, and in such a way that it doesn't allow for accumulation.
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Wed, June 27, 2007 - 7:28 AM<Would an international currency mean that everybody would be forced to use it? What about those who have their own unique ideas about internal economics?>
If the currency was done right then this would not be a problem. I actually think that it can happen with a grass roots type of adoption. Which would be a totally illegal currency t least until the crash. I see it as helping the crash along actually.
As far as accumulation that is why I favor a demmurage system instead of interest like the Terra but without the central computers. (tricky but doable).
For local use I see that a system can be put into place to encourage local spending. By lowering the rate of depreciation of the currency for local spending. Also For local industry a new system to replace the stock market. People invest in a company and their money does not depreciate, there is no speculation, no trading no change in the stock price. The company pays a dividend and people can get their money back. Exactly how much they put in no less or no more. And of course it is not a safe bet you can lose it, like the market. But without the rampant speculation companies could focus on products not accounting tricks.
There is a lot of fallout when you change the currency and if local groups wanted to change the rules they could the only things I see by having a common currency is that speculation on exchange could also be stopped.
But again the only way to put the power into the hands of the people is to have this currency start as an underground currency not dictated into existence by a government. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Wed, June 27, 2007 - 8:42 AMWhat your talking about B, I dont have a problem with. I am however highly skeptical of any of the power brokers who want to institute a one world currency from above, as their vision of "globalization" is corporate globalization are represents the interests of the powerful elite.
A central world bank is dangerous. Thats too much power for a group of bankers to have over the world economy. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Wed, June 27, 2007 - 9:47 PM<I am however highly skeptical of any of the power brokers who want to institute a one world currency from above, as their vision of "globalization" is corporate globalization are represents the interests of the powerful elite.>
I fully agree that is why I think that we need an alternative currency that is an underground currency used, owned and run by the individuals. A currency by design that does not issue from any central banks, does not need big computers to keep track of and can be hidden when the police doing the bidding of the central banks comes around. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Wed, June 27, 2007 - 9:55 PMIm not sure if its realistic to abolish all other forms of currency from the face of the earth, but I totally support your idea for an underground alternative currency.
You should write something about it and post it on the Radical Politics tribe. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Wed, June 27, 2007 - 10:04 PMI'm actually putting information about the alternative currency, it's construction and other ideas along with a lot of information about the current financial system in a website. It is a slow process collecting all the information that I want to bring together. It will take a bit of time since right now I am sidetrcked with building a database of world shadow players.
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Unsu...
Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Wed, June 27, 2007 - 4:58 PM<including Jazz- the one positive contribution to the world in the last century>
Wait, what about Rock and Roll as a derivative of Jazz? Before the corporate takeover of the movement?
I perceive the inherent problem within Globalization the same way its own founding father, Stiglitz, perceives it. It's ironic to me, however, that the antithesis here at home, i.e - Antitrust, seems to have the exact same effect. There's no more protection of the consumer, employee rights are falling by the wayside, and that's just here in this country. Out there, what was supposed to be the opening of free markets to inefficient economies has broken the bank for a lot of them. Third world countries are worse off for the phenomena, and anyone as a proponent of Globalization either doesn't know or doesn't care about the infringement of human rights that has taken place. And the worst part is, while America is fighting a tangential war on foreign soil and a far more abstract war on terror, the effects of Globalization have increased our own support of the terrorist cells. We provide them the same safe havens for monetary protections that we provide ourselves. And every blockage of that has been predominately Republican over the past 6 to 7 years. It's a problem where only the greedy benefit, and until the rest of us start speaking out against it in droves, it's not going to go away.
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Wed, June 27, 2007 - 11:55 AMI oppose globalization because globalizations means "plutocracia" (¿plutocracy?) (rich's goverment, sorry I don't know that word in english), or "corporations-cracy", because globalization stole people power to have decisions and to have control over their lifes (over our lifes), and more.
I believe we can do things in other way, I would like a "social globalization", an equitable resources distribution, self - organizated communities, with direct democracy, no borders, etc. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 11:21 AMOne thing to remember about globalists, is that all their theory looks good on paper to them, and benefits them at the end of the day. They aren't middle class folks designing ths policy. They are the wealthy bankers and corporate types who have never even shopped at a grocery store in person, many of them. They are inherently blind to the problems they create and don't feel the seriousness of it because they are too divorced from it. I have Yahoo delivering news stories to my inbox based on the keywords World Bank and International Monetary Fund. The stories almost all read as though the World Bank is *fighting* poverty, and *creating* opportunity, not the other way around. Despite the studies done in developing countries by anthropologists documenting the problems created by the structural adjustment mandates, 'free trade zones' and phoney baloney projects that nations (such as Brazil) have to pretend to undertake to get funding, the corporate news takes the stance that these are benevolent institutions.
No bank ever spent money they weren't getting a return on, count on it. It's not the way it works. They know developing countries have needs and they are exploiting them by offering the needed loans under very strict terms that benefit the exploitative forces of western capitalism, example number one is privatization of utilities and resources. If you privatize it, it can be bought out. Who can buy it out most easily? The biggest kids on the block. Simple math.
Its a systemic evolution of the capitalist process, a process which has high appeal, because it allows humans to pursue and rationalize their inherent self-interested natures. At the top of that heap are those with the most self-interest, and the least contact with those they gain their fortunes from. Hopefully in time, we can come to create a system that acknowledges our natures and has enough viable checks and balances that exploitation is less possible, and a system of accountability is put in place that can cover all levels of wealth. Until then, the fox owns the henhouse. Always has, just now he wears a tie instead of a crown.
Does all this make them evil? It makes them so far out of touch that their actions fall so short of anything even remotely beneficial to those affected by it, that onlookers generally have their sense of fair play insulted to such a degree that they have difficulty classifying it otherwise. I say it's humans, acting as humans do, which is inherently in their own interests. The less they experience a situation, the less real it is, and the less urgent it is for them to act on. Those creating the environment of globalism are not only the most apt to act in a protectionist and uncharitable way (you only stay wealthy by keeping the money, not by giving it out), they also don't have to live in the negative side of the conditions their actions create. Entirely the opposite is true. They benefit from the decisions, so between being utterly dicsonnected from the realities, and seeing only what is on paper, and in their coffers, OF COURSE they promote it. It's quite natural. I don't see natural as evil. I see the state of things as imbalanced to an extreme as never before. Its an all new situation, one we've never had to deal with before. Obviously its out of control, and needs a reality check.
So what do we do?
Outside of affecting the market, we have no meaningful voice to inform the globalists with. Affecting the bottom line is the only way to affect their decision making. Hordes of protestors outside meetings don't change much, except to shut down or relocate the talks. It sends a message, but not one they will hear as easily as if they lost their money. Disrupt their bleeding of the desperate by disrupting their profit. Then you have something. Everything else is the angry yammering of the impotent.
I'm here to see who actually has viable ideas. Non-violent ideas, and no "anarchy" ideas. We can do better than violence and anarchy. We're smarter than that. Besides, the rebels taking over oil factories in Africa doesn't seem to be having the desired effect. :-) -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 11:34 AM" We can do better than violence and anarchy"
I'm agree and currently a lot of iniciatives are being doing in that way. But, did you say "anarchy" in reference of my post of "direct democracy"? -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 12:24 PMNo, didn't see anything that tripped that trogger for me, but a lot of folks that are sick of this society tend to propose revolution. I view that as a vote for anarchy, which no one in their right mind will actually support in the real world. Revolutions are bloody, and disruptive. People won't be siding with anyone who advocates it. Most folks like indoor plumbing and being able to go out at night and feel more or less safe. "Tearing down the system" leaves a vaccuum in its place (see New Orleans for a mini glimpse of that in action), and is an irresponsible standpoint in my opinion. Haven't seen cause to point fingers at anyone yet.
:-) -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 12:58 PM"" We can do better than violence and anarchy" "
Personally, like the idea of Anarchy. Most people dont understand what Anarchism really is, and dont understand its history. In modern times people have come to associate Anarchism with violence and chaos which is simply not true. Anarchism is not about Chaos, but is a branch of socialism that came out of the first international, which was a radical socialist organization of the working class. Marx was a member of this group as was Bakunin who had been influenced by Proudhon....I much prefer the moral perspectives of Proudhon to Bakunin, though I appreciate Bakunins fiery spirit when* I agree with him.
Anarchism can be a highly organized and orderly structure for society. It can incorporate participatory democracy, mutaulism, and be organized into a confederation of voluntary associations. The results can be a surprisingly stable society, as has been seen in various communities and movements over the last few hundred years.
In my opinion, there is little that can be accomplished by a government agency that cannot be accomplished by a federation of democratically run unions operating on the principles of mutual aid.
While I am open to working with other liberals and progressives, or even Libertarians against globalization, its important to keep in mind that a HUGE block of the anti-globalization movement is composed of Anarchists, so we should try to get along.
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 1:02 PMI think the Seattle protests were highly effective. Not so much that they changed the agenda of the global elite, but that it was a rallying call that encouraged many nations to back out of the agreement, and also that the gathering itself helped people network and build movements. The symbolic act in itself has little power, but the movement building and media publicity did count for something, though its vital that we take the next step and not stop at purely symbolic action.
I have no faith in changing the corporations mind through "informing them". They already know what they are doing. They are not just ignorant, they are purely selfish, and I would say evil from my own subjective standards.
The people we need to reach are not the elites, but the poor and working class, and the people of other nations who are being exploited.
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 1:07 PMsorry, I think I didn't expalined correctly. I'm agree in violence isn't be an answer to globalization, I can't say "anarchy isn't be a response" because I'm anarchist.
Like Setience say Anarchy is too far of violence, some people in name of anarchy use violence. I really think anarchy can be an alternative to that model of world, because anarchy promote equalitarian relations in all areas, as example.
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Unsu...
Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 6:36 PM<Personally, like the idea of Anarchy.>
Yep, me too - and I think the major reason it's been associated with violent chaos is because we're programmed to think in terms of governmental politics and non-responsibility (on a personal level - don't worry about it, we'll take care of it for you). One thing that I always remind people of when they say we couldn't live without SOME form of government is that it's never really been tried. Not throughout history, anyway. Perhaps prior to written record, but not throughout history - not completely. So, to say it wouldn't work is a very presumptive stance. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 6:44 PM<One thing that I always remind people of when they say we couldn't live without SOME form of government is that it's never really been tried.>
I am pretty sure that most of the indigenous people in the Americas easily found anarchy desirable once the Europeans took it away from them. -
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Unsu...
Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 7:19 PMHEHEHE! They were not an anarchy. Where did you read that?
I was brought in under the blanket of a multi-national Native tribe, they all a form of leadership and/or governance before the Europeans got here. They were closer to anarchy, but they weren't anarchical. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 7:31 PM< HEHEHE! They were not an anarchy. Where did you read that? >
My Bad. Yes they did have hierarchal situations through most of the Americas.
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 7:20 PMI have been heavily influenced by Anarchist philosophies, but I DO support reformist change when it is viable. I especially support workers class struggles. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 7:26 PMMany native villages were defacto Anarchies. Even where they had their shamans and chiefs, these people had very little power to tell others what to do. While they had "leaders" their leaders were not rulers (for the most part-at least in the north and through the plains) and did not govern through iron first tactics that were seen in more "advanced" western civilizations. The functional decision making process resembled what would happen in an Anarchist federation of unions, where groups were free to dissent.
Of course to call them "anarchists" is very limiting, and is not 100% accurate, but I would say that a great many of the principles that were practiced by many native tribes are similar to Anarchist positions, especially on the idea of property. -
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Unsu...
Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 8:40 PMThis is true, somewhat - however... the Lenape take great pride in the fact that they created a unified "government" of several nations, including the Iroquois and the Seneca, which by this time had infiltrated the Susquehanocks through very bloody battles, and this was long before the Dutch armed them, which maintained the peace among almost all 500+ Nations for 500 years. It was even a Democratic society, for the most part - under which the people chose the leaders, though not the priests. Religion was not mandated, lifestyle choices were not mandated, but there were certain laws established, and disciplinary action was taken. For example, if murder was found to be premeditated by the Grandfathers and Grandmothers of the local tribe, they were banished - that was a death sentence in their mind. If, on the other hand, the murder was found to be accidental, then the one that killed would take over the work, in addition to his/her own, of the one killed. If the one killed had family, they would be cared for by the killer as well. That is not indicatie of anarchy, and if it were keeping peace for 500 years, that's far longer than the European Christians have been here. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 9:45 PMNot all Anarchists may agree with me on this, but to me the primary basis of Anarchism is the abolition of class society, and the absence of separation between the rulers and the ruled. This could take the form of an Individualist society that favors individual autonomy and self reliance, or a collectivist society that works as a cohesive unit like the Syndicalist unions in the tradition of the IWW.
I dont feel that the creation of rules as guidelines, and even consequences such as banishment necessarily implies class society.
Also, there are times when responsible positions are absolutely unavoidable. When their existence is absolutely justified, they should be under the direct control of the people, rather than indirect control given up to a ruling class, and should be subject to instant recall and consistent rotation. -
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Unsu...
Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 11:25 PMOk, now if that's where you're coming from - then I agree totally. Thanks for clarifying that. It's such an abstract concept that it's got so many variations to the theme. If that's how you define Anarchy, and I can't see anything wrong with that, I think it fits, umm - sure. In that case, yeah, the Natives essentially developed an Anarchical Commune with a Democratic process in place. -
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Unsu...
Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 11:27 PMAnd THAT being the case, you and I are essentially promoting the same thing - the same type of reform in the long run. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 11:32 PMThere are absolutely variations.
Also, I accept some reformist positions, as we are obviously not on the verge of an Anarcho-Syndicalist uprising, though I am defiantly inspired by historical events like the Spanish uprising in Francos Spain, and the history of the IWW. -
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Unsu...
Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 11:38 PMWell... just as there was a sly way to slowly, over time, erode the Iroquoian Creed to - well, what we're looking at now, I think there could be subtle ways of reform that would slowly guide us back to said creed. Not for us, not even for our children - but the Lenape had a policy of Seven Generations. Maybe for them. Maybe. -
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 11:40 PMThe federation of Northeastern tribes that you are talking about is truly a progressive model, even by todays standards. I think we should look to that model for guidance. -
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Unsu...
Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Fri, June 29, 2007 - 1:59 AMThat's why I became a member of the Lenape.
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Re: Why oppose Globalization?
Thu, June 28, 2007 - 6:27 PM<I view that as a vote for anarchy, which no one in their right mind will actually support in the real world.>
I find that your statement is rather repulsive. Given that other societies had anarchy, an there has never been a non violent hierarchal society. I don't view heirarchy as desirable. Malvado, have you ever read anything by anarchist?
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