Duduk

topic posted Tue, March 7, 2006 - 6:10 AM by  Eric
Share/Save/Bookmark
Advertisement
Hey group,
The Armenian Duduk is said to be the oldest instrument in the world.
Made from the heart of the apricot tree, it's one of the most hauntingly beautiful sounds to hear in a musical instrument.
I'm amazed at how much contemporary music is featuring this instrument.
Many years ago, I first noticed Peter Gabriel featuring it on his recording of Passion.
In recent years I've heard it in everything from figure skating, car commercials, and mostly movies and t.v. soundtracks.
Two highly profiled players to check out:
Djivan Gasparyan and Yeghish Manoukian
You can also find more info at:
www.duduk.com
-Eric
posted by:
Eric
Atlanta
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • Re: Duduk

    Wed, March 8, 2006 - 8:09 PM
    I don't doubt that SOME kind of flute is the "oldest" musical instrument ... but a duduk? With that fat, crazy, fussy double-reed? Unless Armenian cavemen were smarter and vastly more patient than caven in Mesopotamia and Ethiopia, I would have to put my money on a kaval- or ney-like end-blown flute as being a more likely candidate for that kind of antiquity.

    Now, here's something that I don't understand. Disregarding the repertoire and the ornamenting techniques for just a moment ... what is the difference between the Armenian duduk and the Turkish mey?

    Get this: Some friends of mine heard Gasparyan perform one-on-one with Dragan Dautovski (playing Macedonian kaval) at a concert in Skopje a few years ago. I would have cut off any three of my own toes for a ticket to that show. Uh, oh, yeah ... and the airfare.
    • Re: Duduk

      Wed, March 8, 2006 - 8:38 PM
      That's what I've read in music books. I'm not an ethnomusicologist, so I can't say one way or the other. It's just what I've read. If ancient Egyptians can build pyramids, who knows? Armenians are smart people, they spear-headed the silk-road trade etc.... If a cave-man played a reed instrument, I'll bet a weeks pay he was Armenian!
      The difference between the Duduk and the Turkish Ney are very clear. The Duduk has a reed, the Ney is just a hollowed, one piece instrument, they sound and look totally different. The Kaval and they Ney are more alike to me. The Duduk and the Kurdish Balaban are similar to me, thiugh the Duduk sounds more expressive. The Duduk also is often played to a drone, accompanying the Dam (which plays the drone.)
      If you listen to Sufi music from Turkey, using the Ney, you'll hear a huge difference from the Duduk.
      -Eric
      • Re: Duduk

        Fri, March 10, 2006 - 8:25 AM
        Damn, I'm sorry, I didn't mean the NEY, I meant the MEY! Argh, I make that mistake all of the time. I MEANT to say that I don't understand the difference between a Turkish MEY and an Armenian duduk. Yeah, I know exactly what a ney is ... I'm hoping to find a nice one on my trip to Turkey in July! But ... what about the MEY?
        • Re: Duduk

          Fri, March 10, 2006 - 2:40 PM
          I'm not sure about a "Mey" I've heard of the Turkish "Ney."
          Awesome that you're going to Turkey. What location?
          I've always wanted to visit Istanbul, and Konya.
          -Eric
          • Re: Duduk

            Fri, March 10, 2006 - 7:39 PM
            Yeah, I'm pretty sure that "mey" is accurate ... I've even got recordings of it on a few CDs. It looks a lot like a duduk, but with a light, blond wood instead of the dark wood that duduks tend to be made out of. There's a huge double reed, and 6 finger holes and 1 thumb hole. The end that accepts the reed is wider and rounder than the dudks that I've seen photos of. Other than that, I can see and hear no difference ... yet a member of the Armenian National Orchestra practically shoved my mey up my own nose when I showed it to him and asked him the same question. "Nothing similar," he kept saying over and and over again, refusing to elaborate. Then he gave me his business card and said, "If you ever want to learn how to play REAL duduk, come to Yerevan and give me a call." Do you think this is just some Turkish vs Armenian thing that has nothing to do with music?

            Ah, yes. Three weeks of wanderjahr bliss. We will start in Istanbul, then make our way down the Aegean coast and then across the Mediterranean coast as far as Antalya, head up to Cappadocia, and then jet back to Istanbul. That's the basic plan, anyway. We're still researching the details. I've got some experience with traveling in the Balkans, but this is still a whole new world for me. Judging from the people we've spoken to, the photos we've seen and the tourbooks we're reading, three weeks will not be enough. And I may have to buy a whole other plane ticket to fly back all of the musical instruments that I plan to buy ...

            Next year ... MAKEDONIJA!
            • Re: Duduk

              Sat, March 11, 2006 - 6:54 AM
              Wow, I did not know that about the Mey. Thanks for informing me.
              I got a kick out of your description of meeting the orchestral musician!
              Yeah, it could be a Turkish v.s. Armenian thing. Some folks won't ever touch anything Turkish.
              Me, I have lots of Turkish friends, they treat me like family.
              Funny that he threw the "Come to Yerevan to play" thing at you. Seems that to some folks only REAL Armenians come from Yerevan. Proves that a little snobbery exists in any culture. As though a good Duduk couldn't exist anywhere else but Yerevan?
              I say this with humor, and being part Armenian myself, and being around Armenians, it brings a smile to me more than anything.
              That's so awesome that you play Duduk and Mey, that's impressive.
              -Eric
              • Re: Duduk

                Sun, March 12, 2006 - 11:33 AM
                I agree. I have quite a few turkish and Iranian friends. But I hangout with them annually. The drummer in our dance troup is from Iran. Most of the Turkish folk I know come from Cyprus, Greece. There is quite often a greek influence too.

                There is something to say about the past (Ottoman Empire) One thing would be. That we are products from it. While others are Victims from it. (My grandparents were) Im an 2nd Gen Armenian American. A melting pot of cultural diversity.

                Good post! Thanks for inviting me to join Eric!
                • Re: Duduk

                  Sun, March 12, 2006 - 3:28 PM
                  You're welcome Jez,
                  I hear what you say here.
                  I'm glad you joined too!
                  -Eric
            • Duduk vs mey

              Tue, March 14, 2006 - 3:20 PM
              Yeah....if you were Armenian or Turkish the difference between the 2 instruments would be clear, I'm sure. :-)

              I own a mey and thought it was a duduk. An Armenian clarinet player told me what I had was a mey, but went into no detail as to what the differences were. I kind of got the same vibe as you Geoff.
              • Re: Duduk vs mey

                Tue, March 14, 2006 - 3:30 PM
                Man, I'm so in the dark about the word Mey. I've never heard of it until Geoff told me.
                I've only heard of Kaval and Ney.
                This is what I like about the tribe, I'm learning new stuff all of the time.
                -Eric
      • Re: Duduk

        Sun, March 12, 2006 - 11:28 AM
        As I see it, the instruments are cross cultural. In a bellydance class our instructor was explaining the use of a bow=stringed instrument and how in other cultures that instrument (I forget what it was called) ended up changing the insturment and adapting it to becoming a fiddle in another culture.

        I was told that Duduk was made from Walnut too. Is that true? I see them on ebay all the time straight from Hye country its 60 dollars for one. I have never seen a duduk in the music stores.

        JeZ
        • Re: Duduk

          Sun, March 12, 2006 - 3:33 PM
          I've always heard it being apricot, but there obviously are some that use walnut.
          The bow instrument you mention here, are you referring to the Arabic Rebaba?
          There's also the Kamanche, the version the Armenians, Persians, Azerbaijian's, etc.. play.
          The Black-sea Turks their own version, and the Greeks have the Lyra. They all changed to the Western fiddle at some point.
          -Eric
          • Re: Duduk

            Thu, March 16, 2006 - 8:09 PM
            Hello again, everybody.
            Eric, just as a clarification, I don't play the duduk. Would love to learn duduk, but circular breathing seems to be a big part of it and I just can't get the hang of it with my other wind instruments.
            I read somewhere that one has to be VERY careful about buying so-called "professional quality" duduks on the Internet and in catalogs, that the world market is flooded with junky beginner's instruments and tourist souvenirs. The article went on to say that a "true" duduk is only made of plum wood and that the finished flute body is slowly, gradually, gently and painstakingly "roasted" over a low fire to harden the wood and give it its distinctive tone. Who knows? As a kaval player, I've read differing opinions about whether or not the material of a flute makes THAT big of a difference, tone-wise.
            Hey, speaking of which ... what is the name of the Armenian end-blown flute? Bloul or something like that? Have you ever played one? Seen one? How is it different from the kaval?
            Geez, all this talk has got me aching to put some Gasparyan on. Back in a second ...
            Ahhhhh ...
            There's just NO opportunity to hear good international music in Richmond, VA. We got a group of Georgian singers and instrumentalists several years ago. Haunting, mesmerizing and other-wordly, like some Armenian music, but very different, too. Hard to explain.
            • Re: Duduk

              Fri, March 17, 2006 - 3:40 PM
              Hey Geoff,
              I'm not familiar with the flute you're talking about.
              Yes, that's true about the circular breathing. I have a friend that's played didjeridoo for many years, he took to the Duduk like a duck to water.
              I've never heard that about the plumb wood being the true Duduk. I've always heard it being the apricot, hence the Gasparyan record "Apricots from Eden."
              Most likely, everyones geographic location is the only "true" anything.
              My friend got a really nice professional instrument, he researched to make sure he didn't get gift-shop quality. But yes, there is some junk out there.
              There's a site I think: www.duduk.com I've heard good things about this guys instruments.
              -Eric
              • Re: Duduk

                Sun, March 19, 2006 - 6:26 PM
                Found it! It's called a BLUL and, best I can tell, it's an end-blown flute, but shorter and fatter than a kaval or ney. Here is the link for a jpeg of a blueprint of one:
                memory.loc.gov/afc/afccc/...d27601r.jpg
                Anyway, I would love to hear one of these played. One of the things that always amazes me about end-blown flutes is that their design is so simple and essentially identical, and yet different groups of people living under different circumstances all cultivated different ways of getting different sounds out of this deceptively simple tube.
                Incidentally, have YOU had any luck with circular breathing? Maintaining even, controlled, steady and long breaths has been a big hurdle with my kaval playing lately ... and when the music is as fast as it is, there's no time to break and guzzle a few cubic feet of air in the middle of a frenetic kopanica ...
                • Re: Duduk

                  Sun, March 19, 2006 - 9:27 PM
                  I only play percussion, I'm not a melody guy.
                  But my friend plays didjeridoo, so he's had the circular breathing down for years.
                  He's the only American guy that I've ever heard play Duduk well. Anyone who can't circular breathe, that I've heard, can't do as much, or get as much out of it.
                  That doesn't mean that you can't.
                  -Eric
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Duduk

                    Sun, April 16, 2006 - 6:07 AM
                    The oldest musical instruments in the world were percussion instruments. It all started out, when Homo Sapiens discovered, that you can make a funny noise by hitting two stones together. Lter he discovered hollow trees ect.
                    The first "melodical" (if you can call it a melody) instrument was a hollow bone. So called "eagle bone flute". Later man discovered, that bones with different size make different noize. So he connected a number of different size bones together to play a simple tune. You can call it a pre-historical panflute,nai or zampona.

                    Duduk is the oldest DOUBLE REED WOODWIND, not the oldest instrument.
                    • Re: Duduk

                      Sun, April 16, 2006 - 10:55 AM
                      Thanks for your educational info, it's very valuable.
                      I'm a percussionist, so I do know that bones, rocks, arrow-heads (idiophones) were around long before melody instruments.
                      If you come up with any more info on this, let us know, the more info the better.
                      -Eric

Recent topics in "Armenian Music"