Good bad

topic posted Tue, April 29, 2008 - 9:43 AM by  offlineKimowan
I just noticed I posted after the maximum thread length, although, despite the warning that additional posts will not be threaded, it always seem to work. In case it's true, I wanted to add to that interesting discussion on what is good or bad. Plus, this will give the thread new life. Anyway, here is where I went:
think a post-modernist might argue that there is no bad art, except for their critiques of modernism.

But first, the example of Van Gogh is interesting because I think the "discovery" of his hidden genius is part and parcel of his mystic. Laypeople's fascination with Van Gogh's reassessment is measured in dollars. In the artworld, he is valued as an important relay in the history of modernism. In his time, his value as a modernist was already evident, not to the official salon artists of the time, who were having a totally different kind of dialogue, but apparent to the growing modernist movement.

If there is any context rigid with absolutes, it would be modernism. Because modernism's roots are found in the renaissance, imo, modernism was able to rake in generations of artists into the domain of modernism, right up to today. At least half of all works have been assessed through modernist concerns--what is good, what is bad. I say half, because the other half has been interpreted through the lens of the post-modernist. Except fot the post-modernists' general distain for modernism, it's rare that they pronounce any any as bad.

The zeitgeist of our time has not been the re-evaluation of what was once-bad as now-good, but more often the turn toward what was once-good is now-bad. Maybe, even more cynically, what is now-good is also now-bad.
posted by:
Kimowan
North Carolina
  • Re: Good bad

    04/29
    Oh! I'll post this here too.

    I like these statements Kimowan

    I think a post-modernist might argue that there is no bad art, except for their critiques of modernism.

    The zeitgeist of our time has not been the re-evaluation of what was once-bad as now-good, but more often the turn toward what was once-good is now-bad. Maybe, even more cynically, what is now-good is also now-bad.

    They make me want to shout 'Bingo'.

    Regarding the Laypeoples fascination with Van Gogh. I think also there is the romanticised and often misrepresented details of his biography to contend with. It successfully produces a branding in the comfortable role of manically tortured artist producing work for a market . Heroic romanticism as a marketing script, I suppose. but we all know it for what it is.
    • Re: Good bad

      04/29
      *romanticized*

      Well, there's that, too.
      • Re: Good bad

        04/29
        "I think a post-modernist might argue that there is no bad art, except for their critiques of modernism."

        Well, there's a blanket statement.

        Here's another one

        "I think a modernist would argue that the only bad art everything but modern art"
        • Re: Good bad

          04/29
          Modern art and modernism are not the same thing.
          • Re: Good bad

            04/29
            I should be more precise. To me, post-modernism isn't necessarily anti-modernism, although it can be, but also simply after-modernism, in-addition-to-modernism or just-different-from-modernism. The "post part of post-modern often depends on the flavor of that post-modernist

            Modernists have defined themselves with, not more clarity, but with clear principles. Due to the clarity of their self-definitions, they've had an easy time assessing what is good or bad. Is the work self-reflexive? Is it pure and cleaned out of extra-modernist noise? Modernist assessments of what is good or bad is more like, "Is it in or out?"

            Oddly, a central precept of modernism is a belief in a hierarchical trajectory to some kind of apex, purity, first essence--truth. Anti-imperialism was a kind of early post-modernism. Deconstructivist really went off on the notion of centralized cultural powerplay. In fact, modernism has even been called fascist, the Bauhaus, for example.

            In our times, feminists have argued against the masculine heroicm of modernism and furthermore, feminists expressed outrage about gender exclusion and the modernit's arbritrary judgements about the value of "women's work." Soon after, other marginalized constituents brought ther own brands of post-modern critiques based on race, culture and education.

            Ironically, while post-modernists seemed hell-bent on cultural equality and democracy, they have themselves become a centralized power with their own criteria for what is good and what is bad.
            • Re: Good bad

              04/29
              Yes Kimowan,
              A good summery I would say. It does need explanation doesn't it. Post-modernism that is. You have reminded me of my art school days, handing around with all the Marxist tutors. Ah! Simpler times:)
              • Re: Good bad

                04/29
                lol. Ah yes, art school daze. I was a tenderfoot hobnobbing it in a virtual modernist monastery.
                • Re: Good bad

                  04/29
                  See, here is one of my monk-mentors. It's a little wild, fair warning.

                  www.artbank.ca/NR/rdonlyr...0/0049l.jpg

                  I really loved art school then. Red-faced and spitty old men would nearly come to blows arguing the virtue of stripes : )
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Good bad

                    04/29
                    "It's a little wild, fair warning."

                    Could you give the wildness some context?
                    • Re: Good bad

                      04/30
                      Okay, late '80s. One of the most celebrated American artist of the time was Paul McCarthy. So this is what was going on while my modernist professors investigated form and color:

                      youtube.com/watch
                      • Re: Good bad

                        04/30
                        Yip, no stripes there but a few ruddy complexions all the same and there is still some attention to colour and form.
                        • Re: Good bad

                          05/01
                          do you guys think there is any relationship between morality and art? Morality as defined more loosely, maybe that some kind of Puritan morality...just sort of the general term, in its original meaning....

                          I mean, is there immoral art? Does art ever cross a line it shouldn't? And if so, when?
                          • Re: Good bad

                            05/01
                            Art crosses lines all the time. Think of the NEA 4 that got Jesse Helms all hot and bothered. For him lines were crossed and therefore funding cut. For many Muslims cartoons in Danish newspapers crossed moral lines depicting Allah and in unfavorable ways. People died
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.

                    Re: Good bad

                    04/30
                    Ha! Yes Ruddy complexions and stripes are never a good idea.

                    I liked the painting. Its constant and always duly happening all at the same time. Confounding and interesting.

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