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I thought I'd give a stab at posting one of these mystery challenges! I hope it's doable, even without known birth times for either parties. It's a father/daughter villain duo.
Father:
people.tribe.net/b47d4a40-...190d854091
Daughter:
people.tribe.net/b47d4a40-...75b30e3422
Have at!!
Father:
people.tribe.net/b47d4a40-...190d854091
Daughter:
people.tribe.net/b47d4a40-...75b30e3422
Have at!!
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 11:54 AMHmm... "give a stab" is wrong, isn't it. Take a stab? Oh well. I'm stabbing something. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 2:36 PMHave a stab at. LOL. Is stabbing a clue? -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 2:46 PMI have to get this out of the way: they weren't lovers, were they? I can see a comon theme of taboo-breaking here, with he heavy Scorpio emphasisi in each chart and the Moon/Uranus themes. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 2:52 PMHa - no, amiable, stabbing is not a clue! Sorry for misleading. (Have a stab! Of course! I lost my phrase...)
And, no, Nexus, they were not lovers, as far as I know. That would definitely be quite scandalous. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 3:27 PMWere they confidence tricksters then? Pretending to be insurance experts or lawyers - tricking people out of their money? - that again is the Scorpio 8th-Hpuse theme. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 3:42 PMOh, you're onto something, there!
They were/are both lawyers (as are other family members of theirs), but that isn't why they're well-known - though they evade a lot of legal trouble because of it. They don't scam people and aren't necessarily tricksters, but they get away with some things because they know law. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 3:48 PMTo be honest I am chaeating a little, but often here are small companies involving father and son...or daughter, so herefore it 'had' to be something seemingly legit: still, that has an 8th-house 'ring' to it too. I am cheating, because I did not pay any attention to where Mercury is in the chart and in any kind of legal or verbal skullduggerĂy I would expect to see Mercury strongly 'implicated.....' -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 7, 2009 - 4:12 PMI don't think that's cheating! You're making smart guesses based on the clues I gave that aren't astrological.
There's no company, per se, but there's a definite 'family business'-esque thing going on (though the word 'business' is misleading, so here I'm emphasizing the quotation marks again). I won't say what TYPE of 'business.' Hmm... this feels a bit too cryptic, but I'm nervous about over-revealing! -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: More Mystery Villains
Thu, October 8, 2009 - 12:33 PMSome kind of extortion racket then? -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Thu, October 8, 2009 - 12:55 PMNope! Not really any sort of swindling going on. The lawyer thing, again, isn't what they're known for. It just helps them out, because they have a thing for upsetting a lot of people. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Thu, October 8, 2009 - 1:18 PMCurioser and curioser...
OK, digging the dirt then and publishing i, or getting it published.Candid Camera (that eould take care of both he Uranian and the Pluonic themes here)? -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Thu, October 8, 2009 - 1:27 PMYou're absolutely on the right track focusing on the Uranian and Plutonic themes! They are certainly very significant. Particularly if you apply them to the notion of 'extremism'...
In terms of digging up dirt/Candid Camera stuff... Quite close, actually! They do seem to THINK they're digging up dirt and they like presenting their ideas to the media. They try to expose what they think is wrong.
But what might their specific focus be? -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Tue, October 13, 2009 - 12:07 PMOkay! I'll give another hint because I really want this to be solve-able! They're part of quite an insular group and serve as its leaders.
Also, I think his Aries Moon and Sun/Mars conjunction are quite relevant, as is his Mars/Neptune square. Along similar lines, her Mars conjunctions to both Neptune and Jupiter are interesting. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 12:36 AMThey aren't watchdogs of some kind then? Are they the sort of people who investigate cheaters on TV? -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 8:56 AMThanks for keeping at this, Nexus!!
Hmm... Yes, I'm sure they do think of themselves as watchdogs. But they aren't exactly the type to investigate cheaters or something along those lines. They feel very powerfully moved to keep an eye on things going on in the world - particularly in America - that clash with their belief of what is right (and they have a very specific focus). They believe this is their duty in life. And they spend a lot of time trying to get public attention turned toward this goal, which tends to create quite an uproar. I mentioned the Mars connections because of the force/anger/hatred they project. Again, the particular Mars aspects are quite relevant. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 8:56 AMSorry if this is a hard one! Let me know when I should just spill! -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 12:29 PMIs some kind of terrorism involved then? Animal lib? - -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Wed, October 14, 2009 - 3:18 PMNeither, actually! -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 9:54 AMAre they in involved in some sort of religious or "spiritual" enterprise with political overtones ~ or the other way around, even? -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 10:00 AMI suppose we had better return to the Uranian and Plutonic themes then, as these were a bit 'warmer.'
That looks a little more like shocking the public (I saw Moon/Uranus I think) or of bringing taboos areas to attention. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Thu, October 22, 2009 - 11:39 AMYes, yes, yes to the both of you! Getting warmer...!
'Are they in involved in some sort of religious or "spiritual" enterprise with political overtones ~ or the other way around, even?'
Absolutely! Dead on. The first way around. I was hoping the religious element would become clear at some point, because it's very much central to who they are and what they do.
'That looks a little more like shocking the public (I saw Moon/Uranus I think) or of bringing taboos areas to attention.'
This is also very accurate! Shocking the public/bringing taboo areas to attention is a large part of their mission. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Tue, November 17, 2009 - 1:43 PMOkay! I hate to leave this mystery unresolved, so I'll give the answer within a few days unless anyone wishes me to hold off any longer so as to leave it open to more guessing! -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Thu, November 19, 2009 - 1:24 PMAlright - here it is!
The mystery father and daughter are Fred Phelps and Shirley Phelps-Roper. I figured they were famous enough to use, but perhaps it was a bit too tricky and perhaps they're not quite prominent enough figures for folks to be able to guess them!
But you guys were really on the right track - I appreciate all the fantastic guess work you did! The connection of religion and politics, focus on taboos, tendency to be 'extreme,' and interest in gaining media attention to highlight issues they wanted to expose (in a negative light), plus the work as lawyers... all dead on!
In case anyone doesn't know of the Phelps family, here's some Wikipedia info:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_phelps
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shir...elps-Roper
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West...ist_Church (their church)
I won't link to their homepage, because it's pretty vile and I'm not sure if that's okay by Tribe - but it's interesting, so look it up if yer curious... There's also a great documentary about them by Louis Theroux (available to watch online):
video.google.com/videoplay
The Phelps family is from Topeka, Kansas. I grew up nearby in Kansas and frequently saw them protesting when I was younger, but they've since gained national attention and a pretty high degree of infamy. Their extended family makes up most of the members of their church - the Wesboro Baptist Church. The church is very heavily focused on protesting against GLBT people and use really nasty, offensive signs at pickets. Their mission is to alert the people of the United States about how God hates gays and anyone who in any way accepts gays. Their ideology and the way they express it is all about divine hatred (one reason I find the Mars/Neptune and Mars/Jupiter connections interesting). They hate plenty of other groups of people, too, but homosexuality is their primary target.
They picket all over, including at other churches, various arts events, and even, horribly, at the funerals of queer folks killed in hate crimes. They also have young children hold very offensive signs which many (understandably) find particularly outrageous. They use a lot of really provocative language, trying to expose how the United States' "acceptance" of GLBT people is the reason God brought about 911 and is killing U.S. soldiers, hence why they've also recently been protesting at soldiers' funerals. Because of the latter reasons, conservative media also HATES the Phelps family ( www.youtube.com/watch ). It's sort of incredible that they've even gotten conservatives so outraged (to the point of the Fox news anchor in that video calls Shirley Phelps-Roper "an abomination" and "the devil"). They're so extreme in their beliefs that some people even speculate that they're undercover liberals working to make extreme conservatives look crazy (which I don't believe, but I could see why people might be in awe of how "out there" they are).
Some refer to their church as a cult, because it's so small, made up of family members, evangelical, and extreme in its beliefs. I also read an expose on Fred (never allowed to be officially published, I believe) saying that he was a horrifically abusive father. It astutely paralleled him as a hate-filled patriarch with his view of God as a hate-filled patriarch. Fred is still technically the leader of the family and the church and is its preacher, but Shirley Phelps-Roper is their publicity head for sure. She's the most outspoken of the group, currently.
Many family members are lawyers and they've used this often to help keep themselves out of legal trouble. They are also sometimes physically assaulted, because they infuriate so many people. In the (above) documentary about them, it's very intriguing that they find it so perplexing that the public absolutely hates them, not making the connection between they hatred they espouse and that as a public reaction. I'd definitely recommend that documentary, as it's a rather complex, compassionate, multi-dimensional look at a family that's hard not to loathe. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Fri, November 20, 2009 - 4:14 AMI have never heard of them, but tzhe clues do make sense. They certainly don't like nice people -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Fri, November 20, 2009 - 11:28 AMYeah... I was hoping they were infamous enough, but perhaps not. They definitely are pretty known in Kansas and in the gay community, though! I thought Fred and Shirley's chart similarities were interesting and that their charts highlighted a lot of specific issues that come across pretty clearly in their fixations and public presentation. -
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Re: More Mystery Villains
Fri, November 20, 2009 - 2:36 PMI supose it shows you don't actually need to know the people in order to deduce what their particular fixations may be. I know that the main pattern here was the Pluto/8th Hoise emphasis, bt there was that Uranus theme too: I do think that in certain cases, Uranian energy can manifest as real bigotry - think Hitler! - he has Uranus rising in his chart, in the 12th.
That bye the bye, brings me to ye anoher interesting matter: the difficulty sometimes in spearating the heroes and the vilains when given a 'blnd' chart to read.
It is not always possible to divine who he villains are and who are te heroes. A strong Pluo placemen may make for a mafia don - but also the detective.
It might have been easy here to conclde tat these two were liberal sexologists instead on the basis of their charts.....
(come on, someone. Tell me what I have missed in these charts).
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