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Chiron, Jupiter, and Neptune are currently more or less cinjunct my ascendant at 23 degrees Aquarius.
The Chiron part is the biggest mystery. Can anyone help shed light on what Chiron-conj-Asc adds to the mix?
The Chiron part is the biggest mystery. Can anyone help shed light on what Chiron-conj-Asc adds to the mix?
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 11:29 PMin my chart, chiron acts as "the freak": it shows where I am different, where I am not accepted by "normal" people. So I suppose if chiron is transiting your ascendant, your "being different" comes out of the closet for everyone else to see. -
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 11:47 PMmaybe I should rephrase or refine my text. Chiron is the part of you that is not accepted by the people surrounding you. So if chiron is conjunct your ascendant, you will start to get all sorts of negative remarks about your behaviour. Stuff that feels OK for you but it upsets others. The negative remarks may hurt you. That's where the wound of chiron comes in. -
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Wed, August 19, 2009 - 11:53 PMand another refinement: chiron "lives" between saturn and uranus, so his wound is about being rejected (saturn) because of your non conformist traits (uranus). -
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Thu, August 20, 2009 - 11:57 AMThank you for going over that so thoroughly! You certainly seemed to hit the nail on the head. I have been quite the stinker lately, more uncompromising, willing to go down in flames of valour... It's in 23 Aqua too, so Chiron energy and Aquarian energy seem to flow one to the other pretty smoothly if I'm reading you right. Good thing Saturn is transiting into a smooth aspect with my natal Uranus, as that may soften the blow somewhat...
Thanks again! -
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Fri, August 21, 2009 - 12:55 AMI never thought about saturn / uranus transits or natal aspects in connection to chiron, but now that you come up with it, it might be worth investigating. I have a natal saturn at 150 degrees from uranus and have always been an outcast. I just don't know how to fit in - and of course I've been rejected all my life by about 90 % of the population. The pain of rejection began to ease a lot after transiting uranus was in opposition to it's natal place. I no longer want to be accepted by anyone, and as a result of that a lot of tension has disappeared. I found peace with who I am and as a result of that, I get easier accepeted - it's weird but true. So I suppose chiron has talents as well: the talent to be your true authentic self. I can only encourage everyone to develop that ;-) -
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 10:44 AMUnsub, I also have Saturn-Uranus in quincunx (150deg) and I too do not get accepted easily. That's an excellent interpretation there, thank you very much. When Uranus was at 16 Pisces recently it formed the latest transit to my natal Saturn, in sextile, which resulted in me getting welcomed into circles I have been previously shut out of.
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Sun, August 23, 2009 - 12:14 PMI'd add that with neptune and jupiter mixed in, there may be an opportunity for you to respond in a hopeful and self-giving way to others even in the face of feeling rejected by them or while simultaneously being a real stinker towards them.
Of course the jupiter/neptune conjunction to chiron may just point to a way of allowing yourself to stand out from others around you because of what you believe in..
The idea of chiron pointing to places where we feel outcast is pretty interesting. I have natal chiron opposite vertex - I think it makes me pretty sensitive to those that are outcast by others and it seems to also put me in that role (the outcast) in an almost compulsive way. (Chiron is also in H12)
I don't know - some people seem to think that I am "in" with this group or that group but really I feel that the truth is that I stay on the fringes and boundaries of all groups and never fully "fit in" with any group. If it seems like I am "joined to a group" - in fact - the reality is more likely that my path has coincided with theirs quite closely in recent times. There is a difference between being around or with a group or surrounded by people and being in the group as a "member" or attached to the people around you. Actually the idea of officially initiating myself as a full member of something kind of freaks me out! I like staying on the fringes, actually I prefer it. It seems safer. It feels like it is less likely to contaminate my "authentic self" with the socially generated forces and pressures in the world. Lately, the idea has been emerging in my mind that the process of obtaining a PhD may be more like an initiation into membership within a group than I had first thought. I think with neptune and jupiter expanding and blending transiting chiron and it all being quincunx my natal jupiter I'm going to have to finally give in and let that fact go a little bit ... let myself be defined by something of this world and really accept officially belong to a particular group .... <sigh>.
It is interesting that you mention chiron as an outcast (at least that is how I interpret the whole "not being accepted by those around you". -
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Sun, August 23, 2009 - 12:26 PMThere are pros and cons to both sides of that. For my part, I see myself as freelance even in a membership ~ of which I have none at the moment.
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Sun, August 23, 2009 - 2:16 PMObtaining a PhD may be impossible for a strong chiron. I've been there as well and in the end they made it impossible for me to finalize my studies - because I refused to stop questioning what they called science, and especially their claim of superiority. I wanted to write my final work about the hypothesis that women who experienced incest, would have a more than average chance of venus/pluto connections in their charts. Of course I should have taken another subject and crawled a litte more at their feet. But I just couldn't.
So yes, I suppose chiron is about your true authentic self. Your uniqueness, which is different from others and "thus" dangerous - at least for some.
Your chiron in 12 may have caused you to live in solitude because of rejections of your true authentic self. In my case, the rejection has severely damaged my sense of self worth (2nd house issue). And since my chiron is in pisces, I feel much better if they all leave me alone as well. -
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 12:43 PM>>>
Obtaining a PhD may be impossible for a strong chiron. I've been there as well and in the end they made it impossible for me to finalize my studies - because I refused to stop questioning what they called science, and especially their claim of superiority. I wanted to write my final work about the hypothesis that women who experienced incest, would have a more than average chance of venus/pluto connections in their charts. Of course I should have taken another subject and crawled a litte more at their feet. But I just couldn't.
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Well Astrology is more of a hobby for me and I plan to keep it out of my professional work just because I think that getting a PhD is a fine enough hurdle to attempt by itself without making it extra hard for myself! I do tend to copartmentalize things a bit and I don't plan to mix the astro with the research in any outward or obvious way. I think it would get me laughed out of the institution - or maybe even all of acadeia -or something LOL!
I think with chiron emphasized - getting a PhD for your own benefit and self-improvement or to pursue your own interests is likely to turn into a wounded and failed situation. BUT if you flip it around and use chiron to your advantage and instead seek the PhD as a means to somehow fill a healing or protecting role or some other "other directed" pursuit it is likely to turn out better.
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Your chiron in 12 may have caused you to live in solitude because of rejections of your true authentic self. In my case, the rejection has severely damaged my sense of self worth (2nd house issue). And since my chiron is in pisces, I feel much better if they all leave me alone as well.
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Well it is true that I live mostly in solitude! I am surrounded by plenty of people but there is always a certain detachment that pervades all relationships and situations (even if I get emotionally involved ironically - there is a difference between emotional empathy and reaction versus emotional attachment)!
I imagine that chiron in H12 and chiron in pisces could have their similarities. And by the way .. your chiron is in H2 - well mine is in Taurus! How intriguing!
I'd say that the taurus thing amounts more to lack of enjoyment in the temporal, venial, simple pleasures of life - contributing further to a sense of detachment. But 2nd house self worth ... wow that would be a tough one! I don't know if you subscribe to the whole "wounded healer" at all ... otherwise I would wonder about the role that valuing others might have in your life ...
It does seem like my true authentic self isn't really something people actually want to see! No matter what (most of them) say. How convenient that I have neatly separated myself into compartments so that I can pick and choose which sides to let them see!
Maybe compartmentalization isn't fully authentic? Well I don't care because it helps me survive LOL!
With chiron in H12 - I don't know that I would say "I feel much better if they all leave me alone as well" ... but I will say that you won't find me crying at home alone for want of company and companionship! It has been so long since I was in that situation where I was with any one person in a close and continual way ... I don't even know how to deal with that (besides sabotage)!
For you is it more of a wish to be left alone by most people you meet - but you like being close to a select few? Or is it more like you can be around people just fine as long as they don't try to get close? Or is it just a general feeling towards all situations involving people ... just wanting to be left alone by all people in most every way? -
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Mon, August 31, 2009 - 3:23 AMriptide, the compartimentation you describe resonates with me. At least I remember doing it in the past. I only showed people whatever I thought they wished to see / hear / experience from me. I was sure (unconsciously) they would reject me if I was just myself, uncensored.
And since fear of rejection is a chiron theme... yes, you may be right about us having the same chiron, more or less. Maybe my wounds of not being accepted healed a lot while transiting uranus was conjunct my chiron, about 5 years ago. Now I am who I am, without holding back anything, and if they don't like it, well, that's just too bad for them.
I enjoy the mixture of work and solitude. And after working hours, usually I have no wish to be around others. My own inner world is extremely rich and never boring. Compared to that, other people usually bore me - apart from a few rare exceptions. That probably sounds very arrogant, and I probably am blessed with a huge dose of arrogance when it comes to rejecting the company of others in favor of my own mind. I have no problem with that (another show of utter arrogance, maybe, LOL).
When I was younger I used to be married and after that lived together for some years with another man. Nowadays that would be virtually impossible for me. My friends and I rarely meet, I only see them a couple of times a year but that's more than enough for me. I guess 24 hours in the company of others is about the maximum I can bear. After that, I need at least one full week of solitude in order to recover.
I suppose I am too sensitive to be around people for too long. Picking up every vibe from everyone around me, processing it, responding to it, is a tiring process. That is why I gave up the compartimentation eventually. I found it too exhausting. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 10:33 AM>>>
Maybe my wounds of not being accepted healed a lot while transiting uranus was conjunct my chiron, about 5 years ago. Now I am who I am, without holding back anything, and if they don't like it, well, that's just too bad for them.
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That sounds pretty exciting!
I remember a time when I took that approach - it started to threaten my very survival (or so I saw it) so I had to an emergency re-organzation of my approach towards life LOL!
Maybe that is because of the kind of work I got myself into - teaching - pretty hard to survive as a teacher with that angle on things although it was my first reaction to the world. I found people to be less than accepting of me in this form which is too bad because it is the way I like to treat others and it seems to be the way that makes the most sense - accepting people and dealing with them for who they really are rather than trying to force them into some other image.
And here we are again repeating the chiron theme ... the wounded healer .... while accepting others for who they actually are is the only thing that makes sense to me - I find it simultaneously impossible to find that kind of acceptance myself.
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I enjoy the mixture of work and solitude. And after working hours, usually I have no wish to be around others. My own inner world is extremely rich and never boring. Compared to that, other people usually bore me - apart from a few rare exceptions. That probably sounds very arrogant, and I probably am blessed with a huge dose of arrogance when it comes to rejecting the company of others in favor of my own mind. I have no problem with that (another show of utter arrogance, maybe, LOL).
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Have you ever tried to get some parts of that inner world of yours down on paper? That is something that I have a huge drive to do myself ... but not so much time available. At times I play with the notion of picking up whatever part-time job and corresponding simple living conditions I can find and just locking the door and writing/drawing. I'm convinced I could be totally happy in this state but I feel that at my current young age that time hasn't come just yet.
My current approach is to be running through my own inner world secretly while I am around others and going through the daily grind - classic gemini multi-tasking. A few people have caught onto this habit in me and start asking things like "what are you thinking" - of course I can't even begin to explain.
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When I was younger I used to be married and after that lived together for some years with another man. Nowadays that would be virtually impossible for me.
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The idea of being married seems virtually impossible right now for me, too. Compartmentalization and detachment and secret inner worlds just don't seem to fly in a marriage. It's a hard sell to give it all up in favor of traditional and socially sanctioned marriage or even intimate partnership as it stands today.
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I suppose I am too sensitive to be around people for too long. Picking up every vibe from everyone around me, processing it, responding to it, is a tiring process. That is why I gave up the compartimentation eventually. I found it too exhausting.
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It is energy intensive. I think that's why I crave caffeine so much and drink soda like it was water and sleep a lot. I don't know how long I will be able to keep it up but it does feel like a matter of survival at this time - which is pretty strong motivation for keeping it up. I wonder what would happen if other options - I mean real viable options - presented themselves LOL. -
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 11:43 AMYou sound pretty desperate, riptide. Are you OK? Or are you about to collapse? -
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post apocolyptic
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 11:59 AMI already imploded!
I survived that and find that life is still quite enjoyable.
Only the strongest things within me survived the implosion/combustion and those parts really seem invincible right now -
faith in a higher power
excitement/anticipation of possible ways the future might turn - really it seems the possibilities are endless right now and it is so exciting!
compassion towards others
belief in the ability to have a hand in making a difference in the world
lots of opportunities to learn new things
absorption of self into other-driven/ community-focused purpose
I think this is a fun and liberating way of being!
Who cares about what other people think, really!?
It is a matter of function to me now and survival and success and problem solving.
Yeah - people don't seem quick to accept me - but I don't think I need that. With other people it is more a matter of cooperation, collaboration, function, and enjoyment than some sense of deep understanding and acceptance.
"Oh Lord grant that I may not seek, so much to be understood as to understand"
I guess I'm not really as desperate as I might sound - just fringy and psychologically altered from the norm (in a functional way so I don't feel like its a "problem" - I gave up on being like everyone else a long time ago anyway). Actually on an emotional level, I'm really happy and having lots of fun. I can't wait to see what might come up around the next twist in the road!
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Re: Chiron, etc., conj Asc
Mon, September 7, 2009 - 2:08 PMI"m still not sure about this one, but Chiron- ASC conjunction shows up in my Leo Rising 16 year old son. He does *not* come across as a Leo Rising, not since he was about six. BUT...a huge but...he *also* has Pluto square ASC.
He expresses himself easily on an individual level but more from his Gemini Moon or Cap Sun. I never see him being a Leo Rising...it's *way* muted.
He seems a little bit outcast, though not a lot.