The pitbull thread got me thinking...
Was out visiting my sisterfriend at her new place; we ended up speaking to a neighbor over the fence about the fact that his dog had come on to her property several times and was chasing goats (she's putting up new fencing this week-end >:-P) and that he needed to understand that there is a Pyr there and at least half the week her good working buddy, my 5yo Newfie/Lab dog, and that if they got a hold of his dog they would undoubtedly kill it. The fellow shrugged and allowed as how he has five dogs over there and that's probably too many anyway.
?!?!?!
I guess I see a dog as a primary component of homesteading. My dog is my right arm; he'll alert me to anomalies, whether that's a goat that is stuck, a chicken that's out, a person at the gate, etc.; he'll bring the goats in at night; he'll go get a goat by the collar if you tell him to go get (insert goat's name) and bring the goat in from the forest or field; he doesn't sleep when I do; heaven help anything that makes a baby goat squall!; and he gladly takes care of any extra milk or eggs, even if I don't find them fit for other uses.
A farm dog like my boy plus an earthdog of almost any lineage would about cover everything needful---and you can bet your sweep bippy I'll be searching high and low for some terriorist to join our team when we finally get a place. :-D
No barn kitties is almost a guarantee of mice in the barn amongst the grain; the Mouse Police are another necessary component (cue the music). They, too, have a job to do that I'd far rather not have to do myself, LOL!
I do not understand people who don't feed their barn kitties, don't train their dogs to be useful (or, *at all*!) and commonly don't even get them vetted if they need it.
So---philosophically speaking, what do you think your best farm dog would be? Got a kitty breed recommendation...or how about a lead on some nice, big, burly hunter-killer kitties for my sisterfriend's barn? Constitutional lap cats need not apply.....
Was out visiting my sisterfriend at her new place; we ended up speaking to a neighbor over the fence about the fact that his dog had come on to her property several times and was chasing goats (she's putting up new fencing this week-end >:-P) and that he needed to understand that there is a Pyr there and at least half the week her good working buddy, my 5yo Newfie/Lab dog, and that if they got a hold of his dog they would undoubtedly kill it. The fellow shrugged and allowed as how he has five dogs over there and that's probably too many anyway.
?!?!?!
I guess I see a dog as a primary component of homesteading. My dog is my right arm; he'll alert me to anomalies, whether that's a goat that is stuck, a chicken that's out, a person at the gate, etc.; he'll bring the goats in at night; he'll go get a goat by the collar if you tell him to go get (insert goat's name) and bring the goat in from the forest or field; he doesn't sleep when I do; heaven help anything that makes a baby goat squall!; and he gladly takes care of any extra milk or eggs, even if I don't find them fit for other uses.
A farm dog like my boy plus an earthdog of almost any lineage would about cover everything needful---and you can bet your sweep bippy I'll be searching high and low for some terriorist to join our team when we finally get a place. :-D
No barn kitties is almost a guarantee of mice in the barn amongst the grain; the Mouse Police are another necessary component (cue the music). They, too, have a job to do that I'd far rather not have to do myself, LOL!
I do not understand people who don't feed their barn kitties, don't train their dogs to be useful (or, *at all*!) and commonly don't even get them vetted if they need it.
So---philosophically speaking, what do you think your best farm dog would be? Got a kitty breed recommendation...or how about a lead on some nice, big, burly hunter-killer kitties for my sisterfriend's barn? Constitutional lap cats need not apply.....
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 2:12 PMI'm sold on Bouvs as the dog for me. They're trainable to almost any job, calm, strong, and intelligent. They're good judges of character, good with other animals and children, but they have that endearing watchdog trait of "everything and everyone on my property is MINE" and they will gladly defend it all. They don't bark much, their hair can make a soft, fine-quality yarn or felt, and they don't suffer from most of the defects of other large breeds.
As for cats, I'm not a cat person, but I'd definitely encourage some barn cats to stay if they showed up and they would, of course, get the best care even if they were feral and had to be trapped to make it happen.
My grandpa had a scottie dog named Mac on his dairy farm as a working rat dog and Mac was awesome at his job. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 2:37 PMMy constant companion is a Chihuahua/Dachsund mutt, he lets us live here because we fill the water bowl and the food bowl as required. Nobody has ever told him he is small, if he was the size of a Doberman we would be in trouble. Our cat population is ever expanding and contracting, some stay around and hang out on the porch, and others are out in the hay barns and outbuildings. I don't think I have mice, voles, or other rodents within a 1/2 mile radius of the house. I feed them once a day so they will keep hunting. The downside is I have to keep my chickens and ducks in a covered pens to keep them from becoming cat food.
I am getting an Australian Shepard shortly.
If the neighbors dogs won't stay at home and are harrassing my livestock, here in Missouri we are allowed to shoot them. I had a neighbors dog kill 50 Cornish X that were about ready to butcher. I was slightly upset. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 2:55 PMThat's one of the things I like about a farm dog over a cat, you can train a dog to leave your livestock alone and just go after the rodents, hard to get a cat to do the same. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 3:47 PMThe best I could train my aussie's not to chase the horses is they know not do it when they think I'm not looking. Or they hit the tree line and hide when I catch them. I havent tried a shock collar or anything but that's the only other thing I can think of. The herding instinct is so strong in them that when the kid's are playing they run circle's around them. lol -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 10:22 PMHow's the saying go, "If it's not an Aussie, it's just a dog."?
As much as I'd love to say the Aussie is the Ultimate dog, (I've got 3), I'd be hard pressed to say there is any one best (What is the best rifle caliber? Ford or Chevy?, you get the idea)
The biggest problem with Aussies is they are very smart and need to have a job. If you don't give them one, they will pick one. I've know Aussie owners that use the dog on the ranch every day to move stock, guys that have been saved by a dog in a cattle chute, and heard of those dogs that didn't make it saving Dad. At the same time, I've met Aussies that protected the front porch from EVERYONE but Mom, one that nominated himself for the 'job' of rounding up the neighbors kids, and one that felt birds not only don't belong in the yard, but are really tasty.
Gotta have a dog or two though......
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 3:50 PMIt is legal to kill dog's for chasing livestock but I dont really want to kill somebody's pet unless they are a little over aggressive. I just burn their butt with a load of wax from my .410. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 3:58 PMWhen I was a kid, we had a neighbor who lost a whole herd of cashmere goats to a new neighbor's pair of German shepherds. Goat owner shot the dogs, new neighbor had the nerve to sue in a small town over the loss of their "show dogs". Judge laughed them out of court and awarded the goat owners a hefty settlement for their losses.
I can't help but think that a good Pyr or Bouvier would have kept all those goats alive to begin with.
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 4:28 PMIt's legal to shoot animals harassing your livestock here, too...but it sucks to shoot a pet because its owners are idiots. >:-( Problem is, the dog in question is not a toy; maybe a Rott/Border Collie cross? and if he ever did lay hold of a goat could do some bad damage fast. So far, it seems he just delights in watching the quietly browsing herd detonate when he pops up out the underbrush. We've got several does due to kid in the next couple of months and are not amused to say the least. My guy would have had him Thursday afternoon if I'd been a little quicker through the gate....he was moving at speed, all asses and elbows, back up, no barking, just about 130lbs of dark intent.
Couple of years ago when I was living in a house in town, there was a chocolate lab cross one night that kept trying to get into the pot bellied pig pen inside the yard...I saw my guy grab him kind of at the base of the neck, just off center, and when the dog didn't capitulate immediately, my guy picked him up completely clear of the ground, shook him like a terrier shakes a rat, and *slammed* him on the ground. The dog tried to get away, and my guy did it again....and again. Possibly one of the most impressive athletic feats I've ever seen.
What I'd *really* like to do is put a load of rock salt in that owner's ass every time I see his dog out, let alone on my sisterfriend's property. Seems somehow more appropriate.
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 4:47 PMI've never met a Bouv, tho I'd like to. :-) I carefully brush up against the concept of needing to replace my dog every once in a while...I've wondered about Airedales but never thought to look at Bouvs. I know I'd love to have a Bull Mastiff! I was told by a breeder at a dog show that they were originally gamekeepers' dogs, bred to not eat intruders, but to hold them for the gamekeeper to come and take away. They'd let the dogs loose in the forest at dark, and any humans off paths would be subject to those big, brindled dogs' toothy sense of humor till dawn. Apparently, and surprisingly!, one of their skills is climbing trees, the better to drop on naughty people creeping through the forest in the dark. ROTFLMAO!
I'm hoping to find a good pup o some sort for my guy to help raise; it's been my experience that the shortest route to a good dog is to have another good dog help raise him. Got to get out of this apartment first, tho...sigh! -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 7:53 PMThe best way to get a dog to guard a heard is to throw a pup in with the baby goat's. He grow's up part of their family and will guard them like family. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Tue, April 29, 2008 - 4:57 AMwow good idea
with our second dog we will do just that
our dog is good for killing groundhogs and chasing the chickens (when he gets bored and wants some fun, he never touches them though...and there is only one chicken he will pick on...the rooster that attacked the 2 yr old)that is all he's good for ( besides the friend part) he isn't much of a guard dog....
he wants a friend, we have been looking for one.....we will try the goat thing- thanks!
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 3:42 PMI think dog's are the ultimate security system for farm or ranch. I'm not trying to put Thousand out of buisness or anything. But a dog can alert you of someone coming before you can ever see them. I don't recommend herding dog's if you have horses cause if you dont keep them penned up they will chase them. But if your needing help herding cattle or goat's, you cant beat a good aussie.
We got some cat's for the barn but they hang out on the front porch. lol -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 5:33 PMIf I know the dog I will give the owners one chance to keep their dog at home, after that its off to doggie heaven. I don't let my dogs run free and I expect the neighbors to keep control of their dogs. I don't really have a problem with the owner/neighbors dogs, but my neighbor to the north has a rental house on his place and his renters don't control their dogs. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 11:23 AMI agree, a dog is the best security system. Yeah, a quick shot of oven cleaning spray in their face will send em up to heaven in a few seconds, and there are I'm sure a dozen other ways to quietly dispatch a guard dog, but in all my experience with home intrusions I've only heard of the possibility of dogs being eliminated by a burglar, never actually met someone who had it done to them.
the vast majority of home intrusions are dead-beats looking for drug money, with neither the brain power nor the ambition to overcome any resistance. Just having a burglar alarm sign visible in your yard cuts your chances of home break-in from 1/15 to 1/64.... Having a dog that barks or runs up to the window whenever someone approaches your house cuts those chances in half again, even a little yippy dog makes em not want to come in and raise further alarm, although a rotweiler slobbering on the living room window with a deep piercing bark adds a lot of intimidation factor as well.
If you're more concerned about home intrusion or bad-guy stopping power, get a bull mastiff, or some other dog that's bred to *detain* a bad guy, rather than chase down and attack a bad buy. I personally met one woman who has a Bull Mastiff (named 'Brick'), bad guy jumped her back fence when she was out sun-tanning. Doggie smashed him up against the fence with big, drooly snarling teeth an inch from bad-guy's face, held him pinned there with the dog's massive paws and 180 lbs pressing on his chest.... And held him in that exact position for twenty full minutes until the cops arrived and arrested him.
I also heard of a guy who had a german shepherd who attacked and ripped the shit out of a bad guy who broke into his house.... The bad guy won a lawsuit for damages and the dog was put to sleep for attacking a human. I'm not saying german shepherds are vicious by nature, I strongly believe they are one of the very versatile breeds that can be taught just about anything. Teach them to pin down, and/or intimidate, dont' teach them to attack! Dogs don't understand our legal system and they're not so good at relaying THEIR side of the story to a judge. Bad guy can make up anything he wants, and he'll win, every time. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 11:33 AMMy old pit/dane mix had a knack for grabbing bad guys by the crotch and just holding them there. He kept a guy pinned to our fence that way for quite awhile while we waited for the cops to show up. If the guy tried to move he'd bite down a little until the movement stopped. Never knew where he picked that up, but he was a rescue from a fighting operation, so he had some interesting habits. An off-leash wolf hybrid tried to attack me once while we were hiking and Sammy broke the dog's front leg, then, when he was sure his opponent was down, came back to me.
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 6:25 PMOur currant cat is a farm cat, great cat and a natural mouser. Chuck knows him, and I think the cat tormented him on his last visit. ;-}
Joe -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 10:16 AMAs it comes to cats, Kazuma is interesting...as it will reach under a closed door and pull out anything it's little claws can touch. In my case it took me ten minutes to find my shorts. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 10:39 AMWe had a Maine Coon Cat named Quincy who was a mole hunter. You'd see him out in the yard with his ear to the ground for hours, then the next morning you'd find mole bits somewhere. Silly cat never went after anything else. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 11:23 AMGiles the Cat is a FIERCE predator ! Our neighbors had a rat infestation under their deck - until Mr. Giles went on a campaign of Rodent Cleansing.
He even brought a few ( dead ones ) in for his humans. We praised him highly , & then disposed of the bodies. (ugh)
Now there are no rodents in our neighborhood, and Mr. Giles is a popular cat !
My garden has no trouble with moles or gophers.
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 7:01 PMThe only downside to a Bouvier is the double coat. You must brush them every few days or they mat terribly, but the coat is weatherproof and lovely to touch, I'd love to spindle some yarn from my boy. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 7:49 PMYou have almost convinced me that Bouvier may be the dog for me. They are a Bandogge in that that is a Saxon term for a chain dog(literal translation) meaning a dog that was chained or kenneled during the day when not with the owner walking the property and working and then released at night to gaurd the manor. The Pit/Mastiff Bandogges have one draw back they require a lot of attention and some even howl the entire time they are apart from their human. I've heard that Bouviers like to been shorn to the skin the the Summer if you live where it gets regularly over 90 with humidity over 50% is that true?
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 9:27 AMActually the Bouv's double coat gives them additional protection from the sun, though I keep his coat a bit shorter in warm weather. They are people dogs, though, they want to be with you. However, they're calm and quiet enough that you generally can take them anywhere that allows dogs. They were bred to work closely with the shepherd, drover, farmer, and sentry, so I can't imagine that one would love a life where they weren't close to their person, though that might be offset by owning two bouvs who could patrol together. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 3:02 PMWell I would only be away from my dog while at work. I'd take them for a walk every morning and everynight and I want a dog that can carry panniers for his/her own water and food and maybe some gear for me too and walk the 3D archery courses and actually hunt with me.One thing that sinched me calling a Bouv a bandogge is what you described as the lightening response attack (no barking warning) that is a a bandogge signiture.
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 8:42 PMI really would like to get an Akita.... they're so majestic and beautiful. Stories far and wide about their amazing degree of loyalty. I understand they're very attention-intensive animals to raise and bond with at first though. My dad got a beautiful Akita, and she is the sweetest 190lb grizzly bear/timber wolf looking animal you'll ever see. Her appearance is just downright terrifying if you see her at night, watching you from the shadows with her dark face, wolf-like features, and thick bearlike coat. Her forearms are as thick or thicker than mine, with paws like my fists, and at 6'1'' and 180lbs I'm not a skinny stick-armed man. But she's just a fluffy teddy bear. My dad didn't spend as much time with her as he should have during her formative puppy phase, she's not wild by any means, but she never became the magestic, composed, loyal creature that Akitas are so renouned to be.
Still, with almost no training at all, she is naturally disciplined enough that you can throw a steak down at her feet, tell her to leave it alone, and she will wait there, almost whimpering, totally drooling, desperately waiting for you to give the 'o.k.' command... Even if you walk away she'll wait there. Just don't forget to tell her to eat it!
Akitas were bred as imperial japanese hunting/companion/war dogs... The japanese culture values are very strong in the selected traits. You will never find a more hard working, serious, and LOYAL loyal loyal creature on the face of the planet. They are also, in my opinion, absolutely magestic animals to look at. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 8:24 AMthe only akita i ever knew had to be put down. as she matured, she began to get agressive with the owners children, finally attacking one. she could not be adopted out as she would not bond with anyone but the male owner. she was a beautiful dog and i never had any problem with agression from her, but i am not a child. it was very sad for the whole family. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Wed, April 30, 2008 - 2:39 PMYea, they are impossible to bond to more than one person, that's for sure.
There's a story of a famous one, named Hachi-co... He was raised by a lonely proffessor in Ueno city back in the (I wanna say 60's?)... Hachi would come to the train station every day at five to greet his owner coming off the train after work.
One day, When Hachi-co was still less than one year old, his owner had a heart attack, and died at work. He never made it home. Hachi-co waited for several days at the station.
In fact, Hachi-co would return to the train station and wait, every day, at five o'clock, for the rest of his entire dog life. He never bonded to anyone else. Local shop owners became fond of Hachi, fed him bits of food. He died there, at he train station, after about nine years. They erected a statue at the place where he would always wait.
www.glosk.com/photos/JA/2...130443_b.jpg
There's a picture Hachi-co's monument
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 5:52 PMI have a Full size Rat Terier great dog mostly. They where for bred for farms to get the Rats and they shake there toys from side to side so many time before the Kill. There compact with small amount of waste. Love to play with the Frizbee and balls, gental around Kids. Kind of loud high piched bark when excited to get the Rats out. Easy to walk, transport. I got lucky and got mine at the pound. My last Dog was my real baby. She was a Shepard mix. Sad to see them go along with my Dad. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 8:20 PMMy mom has several semi-feral cats around her barn and in the crawlspace under her house. She lives in a rural area in NorCal. They never have problems with rodents.
We had a little Cairn Terrier named Willy when I was little. My dad discovered a rat infestation in the crawlspace under our then sacramento-area duplex... Willy was just a pup, about nine months or so. I never saw such a vicious and fast little rodent killer. Dad flooded the crawlspace with hoses, and stationed Willy at the likely point of exit, with a pellet gun at the ready for any rats that escaped the terrier's snapping.
He didn't have to shoot much. All in all they terminated about fifty rats in fifteen minutes. -
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Re: Farmdogs...and cats
Mon, April 28, 2008 - 10:14 AMA buddy of mine has a rat terrier. I think the dog may run 20#. He took Buster squirrel hunting, His thought was that the Buster would tree them and he would then make a quick head shot from under the tree with his trust .22. Well Buster kept catching and killing the squirrels he even had a little trick of running straight up a tree trunk and catching the squirrel as it paused at about 10 feet up to look back at its pursuer. Then he saw why they call terriers the dogs that know no fear. A bobcat smelling the blood and hearing the ruckus between the squirrels and Buster tried to sneak in and steal a squirrel from the pile. Well Buster would have none of that and he lit into the bobcat that was nearly twice his side and you know they call bobcats "wildcats" for a reason. well that fight lasted 30 seconds and it was the bobcat that retreated. Buster required some stiches but according to my froiend he walked around for days with this air of pride and a "Who's the MAN?" attitude.
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