Belly Dance & Childbirth

topic posted Tue, November 20, 2007 - 5:26 AM by  offlineKath
Does anyone have any specific historical info or links on this? For example, if specific moves were used to help change a baby's position during labour.

Thanks,

Kath
posted by:
Kath
United Kingdom
  • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

    Tue, November 20, 2007 - 12:20 PM
    Specific moves used to help change a baby's position during labour?? Where did you hear about this one? I would imagine that most doctors, nurses and [certified] midwives would say that this is nonsense.

    As for any "bellydance & childbirth specific historical info or links" many will direct you to Aunt Rocky's articles on this subject. I for one, am not convinced of the idea that there is any specific link between these things. I have been searching for hard evidence that bellydancing is a "birthing ritual" that aids a woman in labour and delivery and so far...I have come up empty. I too would like to hear from anyone who might have good, solid sources of info.
    • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

      Tue, November 20, 2007 - 3:25 PM
      Morocco will be the first to agree with you that belly dancing in general isn't a "birthing ritual". It's a performing art, and in another form is a social dance that many Middle Eastern people do when they get together for family parties such as weddings.

      She did observe CERTAIN SPECIFIC MOVES being used to aid labor, but that list of moves is pretty short. Just because selected belly dance moves have proven useful in labor doesn't mean that belly dance as a whole exists for the purpose of aiding labor. And there's no codified list of "do this move to achieve this result, do that move to achieve that result". Also, Rocky will readily agree that just because women in Morocco have a birthing ritual (which she observed) that involves a group of women gathering around the one in labor doesn't mean that the practice is ubiquitous across all countries where belly dance exists.
  • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

    Wed, November 21, 2007 - 2:08 PM
    I don't have Historical information on this but I can tell what I know from recent experience...

    When I was pregnant, two years ago, there were certain yoga poses that both my midwife and my yoga instructor agreed would help promote the baby turning head down and into prime position for childbirth, as we neared the 40th week. In fact, during labour, it "felt right" for me to go into these positions in the birthing pool. For more information on prenatal yoga, you can try contacting Julia Shields at www.freespirityoga.ca Is Two Years ago considered History? lol.
    • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

      Wed, November 21, 2007 - 4:27 PM
      Thanks for your replies.

      I'm not quite sure why it's felt that I was suggesting that belly dancing is a birth ritual as I didn't even mention that, nor did I suggest that belly dancing as a whole exists as an aid to birth. However, it might help if I clarify why I'm asking the question at all.

      The reason I'm asking this question is that in my work as a Doula, I've come across a technique called 'apple-shaking'. It's a technique used by the internationally recognised birth educator and midwife Ina May Gaskin. The technique consists of shaking the buttocks, hips and thighs of a labouring woman much as you would shake apples from a tree, hence the name 'apple-shaking. The point of the technique is to relax all the pelvic, lower abdominal and thigh muscles and it is used specifically to help a baby to descend down the birth canal where s/he seems a little reluctant to face a brave new world. It can also be used generally during birth to help keep these muscles relaxed.
      To me, this technique sounds very much like a shimmy if it were generated by the woman herself. So I was interested to find out if the shimmy had ever been used for this purpose during birth.

      I am curious to find out if anyone else has any more information about this.

      Kath
      • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

        Wed, November 21, 2007 - 7:51 PM
        Hi Kath,

        'Apple-shaking' does sound like a shimmy! : )

        While I don't have any evidence that belly dance moves have ever been used to aid child birth, it certainly wouldn't surprise me if they were. I would suggest you try visiting the "Bellydancing Mamas" tribe. Someone there might be able to answer your question.

        Good luck!
      • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

        Thu, November 22, 2007 - 6:37 AM
        I don't have any belly dancing birth links for you but I can give you some of the info I've gained from experimentation and some of my personal thoughts on the matter. (If you're interested.)

        I think that looking for a connection to birth through Orientale dance is aiming in the wrong direction. Belly dancing is recreational, it's visual, it uses a lot of the same muscles that a birth dance should use but it uses them the wrong way (if you'r goal is to birth a baby). It's the right way if all you want to do is be entertaining! It's a good place to start looking but it's not going to be where you end up.

        I can find more than a few resources for you on the utility of transcendental dance/music used for pain control, even surgical pain control. I think that a trance inducing situational "belly dance" is probably a bit closer to the mark. I would have to go digging around to find you some sources on techniques used in old Islamic female circumcision or perhaps you could look there on your own. Women's folk dancing alone does the preconditioning for the mothers body and also creates a hypnotic suggestion through common folk music rhythms. To play this music during the birthing process aids the mother in timing her breath, controlling pain, and reproducing slight body motions that aid the birth of the baby. This form of rhythm therapy is so commonplace that I think it's been overlooked by many researchers coming from your angle. You're looking for evidence of the dance when I think you should be looking for evidence of the music played in these conditions.

        If I were you I would research Islamic circumcision ritual, ritual music and devotional dances. Also if you're digging into the Pre-Islamic period you are going to want to pay attention to the men's dance traditions as well since some of them are connected to childbirth in mythology.

        If you're looking for practical information on "belly dancing and childbirth" then aside from some really redundant notes... all I have is the side note that belly rolls are the optimum method for "pushing" during labor. Any other type of push is a waste of energy.

        Have Fun!
        ~*Gen*~
        • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

          Thu, November 22, 2007 - 11:11 AM
          Genisis, did you yourself use bellyrolls to push your baby out? How did you find it worked for you compared with using the standard technique involving the sphincter muscle?
          • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

            Fri, November 23, 2007 - 5:25 AM
            This is going to be a little bit longer of an explanation than I think you were looking for but ... eh... I like to chat.
            I did in fact use belly rolls to push my last baby out after the midwife explained to me for the umteenth time which muscles she wanted me to use. I figured that it couldn't be that simple so I kept trying different combinations until I gave up and used the belly roll. 30 minutes of pushing total. Boom! I've recommended the belly roll through annecdote to a few of my dance buddies who went on to use it with great success. I think there may be something to look into there.

            The problem with prescribing these sorts of techniques for laboring women is that they would have to be familiar with them before they got to that point. Preferrably conditioned towards it long before pregnancy. (This is my ideal.) It's the same problem with using trance music to control pain during labor... if you're not already predisposed towards it when you start then you probably won't be able to work with it even though its a great technique.

            From my perspective, comparatively, women who have had more experience in belly dance before they have their baby have access to those techniques and benefits that come with it. You can't use skills that you don't possess. And as dancers ourselves of varying degrees I think everyone here is aware of the finite differences in muscle control that more experienced dancers have over less experienced ones. Some of that conditioning takes a lot of time to come to fruition. In order to be able to optimally use belly dancing for its pregnancy and child birth benefits the woman would have to be a dancer for a reasonable amount of time before hand.

            As for using the sphincter muscle... I think that's the standard fall back. Everyone can poop (pardon) but not everyone can do a belly roll. Doctors and laboring women have to work with the muscle experience they actually possess. To be frank... babies are born from the anus. If you happen to have the discipline to be able to roll your belly I have to imagine that it's prefferable but if you don't have it then you have to fall back on what you have and for many women... that would probably be the sphincter.

            ~*Gen*~
            • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

              Fri, November 23, 2007 - 5:29 AM
              Hahahaha! "To be frank... babies are born from the anus." Something happened to my N'T, "babies aren't born from the anus" is how that should have read. *sighs* I wish tribe had an editing feature. Then again if it did we would miss these little chances for comedy.

              ~*Gen*~
            • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

              Fri, November 23, 2007 - 4:54 PM
              Thank you Gen, for your candor and for your nicely detailed explanation based on your own experience. Now this is the stuff that I've been looking for....candid observations, personal experience and as well..some academic medical input on this whole subject.

              If you say that the bellyrolls actually helped you push your baby through the birth canal, then I believe you. My experience was completely different though. And yes, I too did try to utilize my knowledge of bellydancing with its movements during labor and delivery [with all 3 three of my children].. But this method failed me.

              Here's another question for you, Gen: Were you actually in the pushing stage for 30 mins? That seems like a long [and painful] time to me. Usually we give 2 - 3 good, strong pushes and its done in 5 mins or less. Has anyone else here had a long [pushing] stage during delivery?
              • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

                Sat, November 24, 2007 - 8:16 AM
                30 minutes was heaven for me. I've heard about people who push for 5 minutes and it's done but that certainly wasn't me. I must not have very aerodynamic birthing anatomy. *chuckles* But there's a lot to consider such as the positions that we we're birthing in, number of previous children, general body type. One of my old troupe mates actually just had a baby last week and gave the belly roll thing a shot. We're similarly constructed and birthed in the same facility so they probably had her in the same position that they had me in. Come to think of it... all the women I know who've tried it out have given birth in the same hospital. (That's more than I really wanted to think about and I'm not suggesting we all gave birth in a magic hospital with beds in just the right position for a belly roll birth.)

                I've had two babies and the baby factory is now closed. Having babies does not make a baby birthing expert, the only thing I'm really qualified to give more than annecdotal oppinions on in this thread is trance work. So if any more info on that is needed just let me know. ;-)

                ~*Gen*~
                • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

                  Mon, November 26, 2007 - 5:24 PM
                  Ya know, now that I think about it I suppose I used downward belly rolls to help facilitate birth. Thing is, it wasn't intentional. My body told *me* what to do, and not the other way around. But yeah, I did use all of those same muscles and functions...I just wasn't aware of it at the time.

                  -K
      • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

        Thu, November 22, 2007 - 11:04 AM
        Yes, I too am familiar with this technique ["apple shaking"] and we used it on my daughter during her labour. It is different tho, than a bellydancer's "shimmy" generated from within the body, which involves at least some contraction of various muscles in the thighs, glutes and pelvic area and wouldn't be relaxing in the least to a woman in labour. Now shaking the woman from without [doula moves the woman's hips and thighs for her] is akin to a certain type of 'massage' which can be quite relaxing. After my daughter had been labouring long [and hard] for over 26 hours, we were desperate to speed up the process so we employed an old method that my grandma handed down to my mother who handed it down to me, then I to my daughter - That of simply walking & performing deep squats which brings those same muscles into play, making them work hard, instead of relaxing them. this technique almost always brings the baby on quickly and needless to say, that baby came 'zoomin' out in no time..hahaha!

        Of course, each and every one of us is going to have our own unique experience of labour and childbirth and our bodies may respond in many unexpected ways to various tecniques. Therefore, I'm not averse to trying anything that might make the whole process easier and faster, as long as it does no harm.

        • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

          Thu, November 22, 2007 - 4:35 PM
          This is all really interesting so thanks everyone for your input. I will be following up on the suggested sources of information.

          Reading what's been discussed so far, my personal view is that there may, and I emphasise MAY, be a place for the shimmy in place of apple-shaking as some women don't like being touched while they birth and prefer to do everything for themselves. As a respector and promotor of the birthing woman's right to choose, I would suggest a shimmy, even if it might be less effective, rather than apple-shaking to such a client. That said, all this would have been throughly discussed prior to actual birth anyway, so I would actually be reminding a woman of what she already knows as opposed to suggesting something new and out of the blue while she is in labour.

          Kath :0)
          • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

            Thu, November 22, 2007 - 6:24 PM
            I can't speak to teh validity of any historical significance, but bellydancing was the sole activity that helped me mend my pubic symphisis after the birth of my twins. It had split right down the middle in both the front (the pubic symphisis) and the back (coccyx). I was unable to walk during the last couple of weeks of my pregnancy and the first couple of weeks after birth. When I was finally able to walk again I began all sorts of physical therapies to heal these areas and nothing seemed to be working very well.

            Once I got into bellydance, and practiced the isolated muscle movements within my pelvis and glutes and hips (very slowly-- which was harder perhaps, but also the only way I could manage them at the time as the skeletally based movements were just impossible) I began to notice an marked increase in movement. Perhaps what was even more amazing was that x-rays revealed my healing was not symmetrical and I would most likely always have back and pelvic problems due to this, but after about 6 months of bellydancing later x-rays revelaad that I was healing quite symmetrically.

            Because of this I just sort of accepted that BD had something to do with childbirth, whether prior to birth of post-partum. Again, I have no evidence to suggest that this was ever truly the case, but it worked so well for me that I just took it as a given.

            -K
  • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

    Thu, November 22, 2007 - 7:15 PM
    Hi Kath! At the bottom of this article on my web site are some links that you may find helpful in your investigation: www.shira.net/dear09-pregnant.htm
    • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

      Fri, November 23, 2007 - 3:10 AM
      Thaks everyone!

      Kryssa - my daughter had SPD during her pregnancy although nowhere near as bad as it sounded for you. I know how much pain she was in so I'm so glad to hear you've recovered and, even better, that BD helped!

      Shira - your website was one of the first places I looked so I have these links already but thank you for reminding me they're there. There's some really useful info there.

      Kath :0)
  • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

    Thu, January 3, 2008 - 1:41 PM
    A recent episode of Good Morning America addressed this topic, as did a recent Wall Street Journal article:

    Good Morning America:

    abcnews.go.com/GMA/TurningPoints/story

    The Wall Street Journal article (the link leads to a different web site because the WSJ's own web site requires you to have a membership to read it):

    www.dailyherald.com/story/

    I also found this other news story:

    www.boston.com/yourlife/h...ng_i_1.html
    • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

      Thu, January 3, 2008 - 2:25 PM
      Yeah..I saw this one posted on another tribe. I commented about the fact that the featured birthing mother in the clip who was "bellydancing" had a 91 hour labor. Also, that she finally resorted to using the old 'squat-down-low' maneuver [ which is NOT a standard bellydance move] before the baby was born.

      I dunno.......Still sounds to me like just another ((trendy thing)) being marketed to young, new age consumers with $$ to spend. I am one of the greatest advocates for natural childbirth/homebirth. I don't want to see labor and childbirth 'medicalized' anymore than it has to be. But I do like to have sound scientific explanations for the natural physiological processes involved and have them addressed in a practical and [intellectually honest] manner instead of going off on some 'magikal mystical' tangent which only seems to $ benefit $ purveyors of "bellydance produkts".
      • Re: Belly Dance & Childbirth

        Sun, March 2, 2008 - 6:47 AM
        bellydancing helped me alot when I was pregnant. Doing myas helped ease pain but if I could have stood up and done more I would have. I was on bed rest with preeclampsia though so I couldn't do as much as i would have liked.

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