Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes's topics - tribe.net

Just WHO is "The Goddess" and what (exactly) does bellydancing have to do with Her?

Sarita — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:20:22 GMT

I know that the question might sound rather redundant and even absurd to many of you, still I would like to open a (new) dialog on the subject of goddesses and goddess dancing, in order to hear some fresh ideas and insights. I am interested in hearing your thoughts about the entire subject of goddesses and why you believe She/ it / they may (or may not) be important in the dance.

How, when, where and why do you think this 'bellydance goddess' concept originates and how does it affect your dance?
Can male dancers also be affected?
What is the name and character of the particular goddess that feel you are (evoking, invoking, channeling, expressing) when you dance?

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 2 replies

The Lewdness of Dance

PoisonedSpoon — Fri, 25 Jan 2008 14:18:42 GMT

The Latin word "Ludi" is the origin of the word "Lewd." Ludi is a nebulous word for the concept of entertainment; games, sports, horse racing, gladatorial contests, acting, dancing and playing music are all "Ludi." The artists and athletes who performed these Ludi were actually considered to be lewd, their behaviour was undignified for proper men and women of both Patrician (aristocratic) and Plebian (commoner) castes. In most cases performers were brought from neighboring countries, especially from Greece which was famous for it's actors, orators, musicians and dancers. Prostitution was also filed under "Ludi." Any act that involved the sale of the body as opposed to the sale of goods put an entertainer into the same class as a prostitute. As long as society regarded performers poorly there wasn't any worse you could do so, if the money was right and the client reasonable, many performers occasionally did accept payment for sex.

This is the same stigma many performers continue to bear and I theorize that this is probably why Orientale dancers are viewed as lewd in their countries of origin. I seem to recall that even in recent memory Orientale dancers have occasionally sold sex for payment if the money was good and the client reasonable. (Though that comes annecdotal.)

"Gladiatrix," Amy Zoll
"Handbook to Life in Ancient Rome" Adkins and Adkins

~*Spoon*~

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 22 replies

Facts Or Fallacies - Taking On The "Sacred Cows" Of Bellydancing

Sarita — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 04:27:39 GMT

Got any questions or doubts about things you've heard or have been taught about bellydancing in general? Have strong feelings about some of these? Do you have some new and original ideas of your own that you would like to share?

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 27 replies

Delilah's Belly Dance origin ideas

Delilah — Sat, 21 Jun 2008 01:53:02 GMT

Hello Delilah here of www.visionarydance.com.

I just joined this tribe today on my way to a Solstice parade tomorrow (we are 120 bellies strong). Of course I don't have much time today but it looks like some good posts here. I have been on the quest my whole life to know and define belly dance. I feel one has to use ones in born wisdom. We don't have video tapes from the past so no one really knows jack if you ask me. The references to dance through history were usually not by dancers. How can you explain it. You have to have a comfort level with body before you can begin to understand dance, and we haven't had a non judgemental viewing audience in a dozen centuries. We have so many things in our way of authentic expression.
(Good book to read is the relitivly new book " Dancing in the Streets")

If we dancers could tell you what we mean by dance we would have to dance (quote by issadora I think). Dance is wordless and women are usually too busy through out the centuries to write about dance (if they could write). So then we have to explore original intentions. It wasn't about putting in on a stage somewhere. Then we have to see through our artificial need to catagorize everything (scholarly expertise bull). I feel the common denominator is not any one country, or culture, or time zone, but the notion that the defining point for belly dance is WOMEN makes sense. The need to ingage the sacred feminine even if you are a guy is fine. The focal point is birth givers. We share a very special identity that has been marginalized in the cultures today. Belly dance claims that in it's archeotypal lineage to creative incubative process. Women=body=vessal=earth.

I'm probably rambling but I love this dance!

Delilah
Let me know if you ad posts I tend to get lost on tribe.

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 0 replies

300 got me thinking

Sian — Tue, 27 Mar 2007 21:32:52 GMT

Hi, new here!

I watched 300 at the weekend (and tho I loath to compare modern movies to actual history) it got me thinking. In one section of the film, sensual, almost belly dancer - like dancers.

This got me thinking, about belly dancing or an early form of belly dancing in this era. I spoke to a friend of mine (who is in a re-inactment group who fight against Romans and Saxons, its great!) who says that he has seen belly dancers performing at re-inactments, generally in the Roman Camp.

Is there any historical evidence for this? What style would they have been dancing? What sort of costume? And does anyone know of sources where I could read up about it.

Thanks

Sian x

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 27 replies

Applying Logic to Belly Dance Fallacies

PoisonedSpoon — Sat, 12 Apr 2008 14:23:30 GMT

This is sort of X-Posted from the brainy tribe. It was a running series of articles on logic written by my husband. I've condensed and presented them here because I think that a lot of histoical inaccuracies and fallacious arguments are cropping up that could easily be reduced with a little application of logic. I'm here to discuss history, the evolution of dance and even folkloric dancer archetypes. So here is what I have for you (courtesy of Cuindless)...

One of the major difficulties in properly constructing a logical argument is the avoidance of fallacious logic. The following are known as "formal fallacies" and are the one's that have been codified into what is considered hermenuetic canon.

Dicto Simpliciter ad Dictum Secundum Quid, also knows as "destroying the exception" or "the fallacy of accident". This fallacy is employed in the creation of an argument that doesn't allow for exceptions. For example: "Giving people drugs is evil. Doctors give people drugs. Therefore, doctors are evil." The reverse of this, Dicto Secundum Quid ad Dictum Simpliciter, or "dignifying the exception", is employed when the exception is raised to a general rule. For example: "Patients are allowed to use drugs. Patients are people. Therefore, it's okay for people to use drugs."

(Spoon: "Strippers take tips in their costume, therefore all dancers who take tips in their costume are strippers.")

Ignoratio Elenchi, or "irrelevant conclusion", is the crafting of logical arguments that divert attention from the issue rather than address it directly. This is commonly known as a red herring. There are four special cases of Ignoratio Elenchi which will be explained below: Argumentum ad Hominem, Argumentum ad Populum, Argumentum ad Baculum and Argumentum ad Verecundium.

Argumentum ad hominem means "arguing with the man" and is commonly known as "personal attack". For example: "Ron Paul thinks we should stop sending foreign aid to Israel. Ron Paul is a known racist. Therefore, we should still send foreign aid to Israel." Argumentum ad hominem does nothing to address the actual facts of the issue and instead confounds it with personal attack or criticism. Known as mudslinging in modern politics.

Argumentum ad populum means "arguing with the people" and is commonly known as "appealing to the majority". For example: "The majority of people do drugs, therefore doing drugs must be okay." Argumentum ad populum creates two assumptions. First, it presumes that the arguer knows what the majority of people believe. Second, it assumes that what the majority of people believe is made automatically right.

(Spoon: "Everybody knows that belly dance is an ancient art, therefore the ancient Egyptians must have belly danced.")

Argumentum ad baculum means "arguing with the cudgel" and is commonly known as "an appeal to force". Example: "You should believe in God because if you don't you'll go to hell." Argumentum ad baculum assumes that a negative consequence automatically makes your position the correct.

Argumentum ad verecudium means "arguing with authority" and is commonly known as "appealing to authority". Example: "The government says drugs are bad, therefore drugs are bad." This fallacy is employed when the validity of a claim does not follow logically from the source. On the other hand, no fallacy exists if the validity of the claim follows logically, such as "Doctors say drugs are bad for your health, therefore drugs are bad for your health." The implication of argumentum ad verecundium is that the arguments of authority are infallible.

(Spoon: "My friend from Tunisia said that belly dancing came from an ancient birth dancing ritual. He is from Tunisia so he must know."

Moving on to the fallacy of consequence. The fallacy of consequence draws a conclusion from premises that don't actually support the conclusion. This fallacy is often simply referred to as "faulty logic". For example: "People's joints hurt when they have arthritis. My joints hurt. Therefore, I have arthritis." The example discounts various other causes of pain in the joints, thus drawing an unsupported conclusion.

(Spoon: "Tribal Fusion dancers wear Melodias. That dancer is wearing Melodias, so she is a Tribal Fusion dancer.")

Petitio principii, circulus in probando, AKA "arguing the circle", "assuming the answer" or "begging the question". Petitio principii, circulus in probando demonstrates a conclusion from premises that presume the conclusion. Example: "We must institute the death penalty to lower the crime rate!" The example's conclusion is built from the premise that instituting the death penalty will lower the crime rate, which is in fact the conclusion. In petitio pincipii, circulus in probando the premise and the conclusion are often indistinguishable. This argument is called begging the question because it logically asks, "Is the premise true?"

(Spoon: "Requiring students to study Raqs Sharqi before ATS or any kind of Fusion Belly Dance style will make them better dancers.")

Non sequitur ("it does not follow"), also known as the fallacy of false cause. This fallacy incorrectly assumes that one thing is the cause of another. "Your money troubles will go away because God loves you," is an example of a non sequitur because it presumes God's interference to begin with. Several special cases of non sequiturs exist, the two most common being Post Hoc Fallacy and Cum Hoc Fallacy.

Post Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc AKA Post Facto Ergo Propter Facto ("happened after therefore happened because of"), often simplified to "Post Hoc Fallacy". This argument assumes that temporal succession is equal to causation and that order of events is enough to prove cause. This fallacy is my personal favorite because it's so easy to refute. Example: "I sneezed in San Francisco and then there was an earthquake. Therefore, sneezing causes earthquakes!" Post Hoc Fallacy may very well be the most commonly used fallacy.

(Spoon: "Nobody performed to Dead Can Dance before Mauri did, therefore everybody who dances to their music now is trying to copy her.")

Cum Hoc Ergo Propter Hoc ("happened with therefore happened because of") assumes correlation is enough to prove cause. Similar but slightly different from Post Hoc Fallacy. Example: "Hurricane Katrina didn't happen until Kim went to New Orleans, therefore, Kim caused hurricane Katrina!"

(Spoon: "Gina and Shush started performing Turkish Drops at the same time so they must have studied with the same instructor."

Lastly, the Fallacy of Many Questions combines multiple questions into a single question thereby assuming former premises that may not be in evidence. Example: "Is Minnie still robbing liquor stores to pay for her drug habit?" This question presumes that Minnie did, at one time, rob liquor stores for the purchase of drugs, a fact which may not be in evidence.

That sums up the formal logical fallacies. Citing one of these fallacies in a logical debate automatically invalidates the argument in question. Next time, I'll be moving on to the informal fallacies, which include such joys as Argumentum ad Hitlerum, Godwin's Law, the Slippery Slope Argument and the Fallacies of Composition.

~*Cuindless and Spoon*~

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 17 replies

Cleopatra's lineage

Katrina — Wed, 09 Apr 2008 14:48:03 GMT

I was in my Arabic class last night when my teacher, who is Egyptian, said the strangest thing. He said that Cleopatra wasn't Egyptian she was Greek. He also said she was a whore and the thought crossed my mind that he was simply trying to disavow shared heritage with a woman of loose moral values by stating "Hey! She was Greek!" However, this is not an area that I have any genuine knowledge or expertise in and did not feel like starting a debate about the truth of his statement without KNOWING the truth about his statement myself. So, does anyone know, and more importantly can quote sources, for Cleopatra's lineage? Was she Egyptian, or Grecian?

Thank you!

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 19 replies

How Has TV/Film Treated Bellydance/Bellydancers?

brandonoasisdc — Sun, 06 Apr 2008 21:12:29 GMT

The debate continues, and has lasted and will for decades more, of how the Hollywood industry (TV, film & home video industries) has handled the role of a bellydance and/or Middle Eastern dance as an art form, dating back to the B&W era, when technicolor was the big thing, the 70s implosion of Sinbad and 007 films and the like into today's film culture.

Many ''purists'' will spite the way bellydance has been treated at 1st glance, basing their theories on stereotypes abound. Many ''modernists'' will focus on the viewpoints of the late 80s and the 90s, and the first 7+ years of this new millennium.

There has been few, but many standout performances by bellydancers in films (the scene from ''From Russia with Love is a keeper). For the most point, the TV industry (especially comdeies) hasn't been too kind to the expoure of a bellydancer to the TV viewer's eye.

I know Aziza Sa'id (CA) and Maria of Boulder Bellygrams (CO) has pages that lists the ''history'' of bellydance performances in TV and films.
http://www.zilltech.com/FAQMovies.html
http://boulderbellygrams.com/in%20the%20movies.htm
http://boulderbellygrams.com/in%20the%20movies.htm

What are your feelings of how bellydancing has been treated in TV and Hollywood eras?

Is there a particular decade (good or bad) that stands out by preference to you, and why?

Is it better that these industries DON'T give bellydancing the due one feels it deserves as it
will be a better tutorial for others to avoid any misconceptions and/or stereotypes?

What was/has been the worst performance in a film or a TV show involving bellydancing
you can remeber? What was the best?

Come February 17, 2009, all TV stations licensed by the FCC will have to switch from analog to digital signals, freeing up more opportunities for stations and viewers to have more available channels. This also can be a benefit for PBS (public TV stations) to expand their resources of paid programming as well, can these stations help find a voice/fill a local void for bellydancing that others cannot? or the l;ocal cable access TV genres?

Video portals like a YouTube or a Vimeo or a Revver, etc. has provided a great resource (and/or a bad copycatting of stereotypes) of the many versions of the art form (Egyprtian, Lebanese, turkish, Greek, European, tribal and Fusion, etc...). Will this be a benefit or a hinderance in the long run, years down the road?

Feedback welcomed...
B.

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 7 replies

Belly Dance & Childbirth

Kath — Tue, 20 Nov 2007 13:26:23 GMT

Does anyone have any specific historical info or links on this? For example, if specific moves were used to help change a baby's position during labour.

Thanks,

Kath

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 24 replies

The Men

Brea — Thu, 28 Feb 2008 03:11:26 GMT

Hi everyone!

I am interested in this dance in the sense of male dancers. I personally don't buy into the childbirth/goddess/etc stuff. I have had many arguments regarding this across many forums about this dance. I wanted to know your opinions. I make a point of teaching men, because to me, this is a flashy dance based on the social dances of the Middle East, which everyone has danced throughout history. I think of this dance as always changing as well, and I consider it an expression of sexuality/sensuality. I divorce this concept from 'dirty' dancing, however, because I think in a way it tells the story of sex instead of being promiscuous (if that makes sense). Everyone seems to have a different take on it; every person from the Middle East I've asked about it laughs at the goddess concept and says it is about sexuality. In fact, the old Egyptian man I used to work for danced with me, just like me, when I performed in his home for his family and friends. Therefore I see it as something that is not a 'sacred female' anything. In fact, I hate to hear about teachers that forbid men from their classes, because I hate to see anyone excluded from anything by virtue of their sex alone.

What does everyone think of men in the dance, and the history and tradition of men in the dance? Also, why is it that no truly scholarly works have ever been presented? I find that the most worrisome thing of all.

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 24 replies

sacred whores and dances

Roxanna — Mon, 06 Nov 2006 04:58:48 GMT

Here is an excerpt (from 7 pages under 'prostitution') in Barbara Walker's 'Woman's Encyclopedia of Myths and Secrets' (which every woman should own a copy of !!). It doesn't really answer your question, but.....

'Dancing harlots came to be called 'Hours' : Persian 'houri', Greek 'hourae'. Egyptian temple-women also were Ladies of the Hour. Each ruled a certain hour of the night, and protected the solar boat of Ra in the underworld during his passage through her hour. The Dance of the Hours began as a pagan ceremony of the Horae (divine "Whores") who kept the hours of the night by dances, as Christian monks later kept the hours of the day by prayers. The oldest authentic Hebrew folk dance is still called 'hora' after the circle dances of the sacred harlots. The Horae also guarded the gates of heaven, ministered to the souls of the blessed, and turned the heavenly spheres.'

So remember that next time you read your hor-oscope, hehheh.

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 23 replies

Roma art in the news

lisafiera — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 01:13:07 GMT

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/06/arts/design/06roma.html

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 0 replies

What seems to be the problem with BD "fusions"?

Kryssa — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 03:48:44 GMT

I was in ballet for 13 years before later (much later) venturing into Bellydancing. During my time in ballet I witnessed many "fusions" that didn't compromise the dance and in many cases added so much more. The Tarentella for example, which has elements of traditional Italian folk dance and Rom. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5qPZNahlgM
as you can see in this clip.

Anyway, since I began belly dancing I've run into lovers of fusion and purists...and while my own troupe seems pretty forgiving within these two extremes, many other's aren't. And then there's the question of what is a pure form of BD? And why do some dancers seem so opposed to fusions?

-K

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 25 replies

new tribe

Astrid_Seftali — Tue, 05 Feb 2008 11:47:07 GMT

I created a new tribe for Arabian love poems.
tribes.tribe.net/arabianlovepoems

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 1 reply

Crazed: The Bellydance

ShiraDotNet — Thu, 23 Nov 2006 02:15:04 GMT

This link takes you to a 10-minute video documentary about belly dance: http://www.currenttv.com/watch/17137320?s1=newVids&list=newVidsByAssignmentGroup&k1=1&k2=0&sid=17137320&fr=7

It focuses on what the dance means to present-day women, but there is also some "history". I put that in quotes because I'm skeptical of some of it. For example, one person says that there are tomb paintings from ancient Egypt dating back to 5,000 years BCE which depict belly dance.

To my knowledge, the only tomb paintings in Egypt which depict dance AND are believed to be that old are at the tomb of Mereruke at Saqqara. Four months ago I stood in that tomb and studied the paintings. I had plenty of time to linger, and that's exactly what I did. There are a few different depictions of dance in that tomb. However, none of them look like they could confidently be pronounced as depictions of "belly dance". "Dance", yes, but not necessarily "belly dance". For example, there was no sign of a lifted hip, or a body angled in the attitude of a hip circle. I was kind of disappointed, because I personally believe that some sort of hip-oriented dance closely resembling the hipwork of modern-day belly dance did exist in Pharaonic Egypt, and I would have liked to have found evidence to substantiate my personal theory. But I did not find such evidence in this tomb.

So, I wonder, did the person who said this on the documentary actually do research? Was she referring to the same drawings I personally gazed at for half an hour? If so, I wonder why she thought they looked like belly dance, because I didn't think they did. If not, which tomb in which city contains the art she was referring to? These are rhetorical questions - I don't expect anyone in this tribe to know what she based her comments on.

There are some other assertions about history made in the documentary which I'm skeptical of. For example, a claim that the purpose of the shoulder shimmy was to teach young women about the function of breasts in breast-feeding babies.

There were also some things in the documentary that I enjoyed very much, such as the comments made by Aunt Rocky, the dancing by Tarik, the discussion of the place men hold in belly dance, the comments made by many of the interviewees about the uplifting role belly dance plays in women's lives today, etc. In fact, I'd probably give it 4 stars (on a scale of 1 to 5) overall, so my mumbling about history above is referring to only a small part of the whole. But I focused most of my comments on the history aspect simply because that's the aspect that fits the theme of this particular tribe.

I'd be interested in hearing what others thought of the documentary.

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 35 replies

malaya, or maybe m3laya

maiwenn — Wed, 23 Jan 2008 18:42:00 GMT

stemming from one of saritas posts in another tribe, I am trying to find out if any one knows anything about malaya, or oman/arabic booty dance. There are a number of posts on youtube, but all most no rational discussion of what it is apart from a couple of referances to it being a spirtual dance, possibly african arab from oman and the united arab emirates. All the other comments are racial hatred and bigotry. wiki has nothing ...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuCU15J-BJk

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 7 replies

Too damn many people onstage!

LeeAli — Wed, 02 Jan 2008 00:42:01 GMT

I'd love to hear opinions about the growing number of people who seem to be performing these days.

Semi-professionals, students and hobbyists have all moved onto a playing field that was once reserved for professional entertainers.
Emergence and continued growth of these groups, is due to 3 factors...

1. The almighty dollar: teachers and merchants are dependent on perpetuating a giant performing machine.
a) Teachers keep their students interested and committed by offering performance opportunities... recitals, haflas, 'fests and faires.
b) Merchants rely on the buying frenzy that performances and the social events surrounding them creates.

2. As a society, we are obsessed with celebrity.
a) And everyone wants their 15 minutes of fame

3. This is the age of Reality TV.
a) The mindset generated by Reality TV, Youtube, Myspace.... etc... has altered the notion of what celebrity is... and how it may be attained.
b) The power to create celebrity once rested in the hands of agents and companies. Such power now rests with the individual. The ability to generate an audience to identify with your particular message... be it bellydancing or 2-girls-one-cup (!)... is in every woman's hands.
c) And 'everywoman' is using that power to put herself on stage, for better or for worse.
reply to this post

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 13 replies

Maybe a definition of "belly dance" would be a useful starting point?

ShiraDotNet — Fri, 08 Sep 2006 16:43:13 GMT

One of the issues I've seen with a lot of discussions of belly dance history is the confusion/disagreement over a definition of what, exactly, we are looking at the history of. So maybe we should start by defining what we mean by "belly dance"?

Then, when discussing a particular theory, we can ask, "Okay, so we've settled that some sort of dance was used for such-and-such purpose, but now what is the evidence pointing to it being belly dance as opposed to some other style of movement?" But before we can ask this question, we need a definition of "belly dance" that we can compare against the historical account.

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 18 replies

Puritan Morality & Repressed Sexuality In Western Bellydancing?

Sarita — Fri, 03 Nov 2006 22:16:18 GMT

Do most women come to this art form in order to heal or 'redeem' a lost sense of sexual power? If so...then why is it that so much of the bellydancing community/industry is rife with puritannical sensibilities and harsh judgements with respect to the expression of this sexual power in the dance?

Is there some 'distinct' difference between Western/Anglo concepts of the erotic and sensual - and those of other cultures?

Question for everyone:

What is your definition of the following where this dance is concerned:

"naughty"?

"sleazy"?

"sexy"?

"sensual"?

"whore"?

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 166 replies

The Greek connection?

Keyna — Wed, 31 Jan 2007 16:58:10 GMT

I found you!! haha! Hello, I just joined.

Yesturday I was sitting in one of my India History classes and the prof made a comment about bellydancers in Greek restaurants. His wife is Greek and he claims there is no connection. So I got to thinking...

What connection does bellydancing have to Greece? Are they culturally connected? Why do we dance in Greek restaurants?

If you have insight or links, I would welcome them.

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 15 replies

What differentiates the various "forms" of bellydance?

Brittaney — Fri, 09 Nov 2007 17:22:05 GMT

I am not trying to start a conversation as to what qualifies as bellydance...I am actually just wondering how a person (me!) might be able to go about getting educated about the difference between: Raks Sharki, Oriental, Turkish, Egyptian, Lebanese and Greek bellydance?

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 3 replies

Modern "Bellydance" Archetypes

Sarita — Mon, 22 Jan 2007 05:03:30 GMT

With all the recent media attention that has been given to bellydancing, the steep rise in public interest and the new bellydance 'star maker' machinery churning out one diva after another - there seems to have been new 'archetypes' created, which are exerting their influences on the bellydance of today. Who do you think are the modern day 'archetypes' of bellydancing and what new meaning [ie values & characteristics ] does each one bring to the dance and how do they achieve this?

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 41 replies

Uh Huh...Now This Is Interesting.

Sarita — Mon, 24 Sep 2007 07:10:10 GMT

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nC6GCaCv3k

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 5 replies

Tongolele

Sarita — Thu, 23 Aug 2007 21:25:17 GMT

The famous Latin exotic dancer "Tongolele"...One of my childhood inspirations to learn how to "shake a tailfeather"....
Just one more of a vast array of 'archetypal' images that have influenced modern bellydancing. Mona El Said tried to emulate this style and was famous for her Afro-Latino style shows in Egypt.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=P3Gf4qUFP1I

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 2 replies

The Dancer Of Esna

Sarita — Fri, 04 May 2007 19:43:58 GMT

Good Article about the Ghawazee as expressed through Flaubert's writings . There are interesting links to Gades [Cadiz, Spain] and then there is the Turkish connection [ie the obscured identity of "Kuchuk Hanem"]

http://www.geocities.com/ankhenmut/Esna.htm

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 31 replies

Ah FIFI..You little Devil!

Sarita — Wed, 28 Mar 2007 07:28:38 GMT

A woman dancing *gasp* for a MAN!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WnwI0H7YbI

; >

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 4 replies

ghawazee, fact and fiction

wolf — Tue, 09 Jan 2007 12:02:52 GMT

ok , a the begining I was in love with the idea of the ghawazee, and now i'm reasearching further, i have aisha ali's "dances of egypt"
and the marzin sisters are clearly there dancing in short skirts high heels pallettes ect.....

yet most reference to them on the internet and other sources always show 19 century painting drawings with the big coats /harems ect.
This fits our archetype better , our "idea/ideal" of the dance while seemingly the truth , the egisting remenents of the "real/ authentic" dance.

The actual style of the banat marzin is swamped under the thousand and one ghawazze .....name troupe that actualy perform ATS ?.
the morden costume i can not find but i have a hundred and one paterns and references for "the ghawaazee coat" (which may or may not be turkish ??)

i'm not saying the dance is not a liveing breathing changing entity , I love tribal style and yet this is how it seems to be ?
lets talk about the archetype of ghawazee and the real ......................................

posted in Bellydance History/Evolution/Archetypes - 16 replies