Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

topic posted Sat, November 7, 2009 - 12:04 AM by  John
So I am into erotic asphyxiation, I finally found someone who has an interest with me. I know the dangers but here is my situation. When I am being choked, I am completely restrained and have a blindfold and a gag. This means that I really can't tell my girl to stop; the only thing that i can do is hold something in my hand and once dropped, my girl will stop. I'm worried that I might black out, which would then cause me to drop the object and my girl would stop (as previously stated). The way my girl chokes me is by pressing on my upper throat (just under my jaw) with her hand (part between her thumb and forefinger) so that blood can still flow to my head. I have never passed out yet, but if I do, I told her that if I do not wake after about 30 seconds, to essentially breath 2 to 3 breaths of air into my lungs (pretty much CPR) and that should bring me back relatively soon. I know that normally if a person was to be choked out in this way that they will usually awake by them them self (because the heart rate increases, increasing blood and oxygen to the brain causing the person to wake up, assuming that the persons airway is cleared and there is some oxygen left in the lungs) but a person will not awake if they are choked out to the point where the lungs completely use ALL the oxygen in the lungs then CPR is needed or death will occur.
I'm wondering if anyone reading this has ever blacked out by this method or similar (gas mask) before and have awaken safely? Any tips? (Please don't tell me i'm crazy or to stop, because I won't I until i get it out of my system)
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  • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

    Sat, November 7, 2009 - 5:06 PM
    Jay Wiseman has written a lot about erotic asphyxiation. He's something of an expert on it. It is possible to die from it, but I think Jay may over exaggerate the chances of this. Still, I do recommend that you look for his article (you should be able to find it on the internet) and read it. It might not be fun for your girlfriend to be charged with manslaughter.
    • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

      Tue, November 24, 2009 - 8:43 PM
      Actually, Domina, the risks of death from this are so high that even in an emergency room setting, with people fully trained in the techniques that are essentially what are used in this sort of play, albeit for legitimate medical reasons, they always have a full crash cart right at hand, and a whole ER full of doctors and nurses. The risks are *extremely* high - *especially* if the person being choked/asphyxiated has any kind of known or hidden heart problem.
      • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

        Fri, January 1, 2010 - 5:44 AM
        there is nothing that i find more sensual/sexy/hotter than hell.... than a hand wrapped around my throat, but i've never taken it as far as losing consciousness.
        i enjoy being completely and totally aware of what is happening.
      • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

        Sat, January 2, 2010 - 10:50 PM
        Thank you, KLG. I don't personally do it, because it's unsafe, but I didn't think it was as unsafe as you said it was. However, YOU would know. So thank you for the heads up.
        • Unsu...

          Safe erotic asphyxiation

          Sun, January 3, 2010 - 3:03 PM
          This just seems like an oxymoron to me.

          I also suggest learning from some experts. Jay is going to do his best to talk you out of it and he has good reason to. There are huge risks involved. We had someone locally die this way years ago.

          Jay has a profile on tribe so you might search for that and read his blogs. I'm sure there is something about this subject there and you'll find out why he is an expert.
          • Re: Safe erotic asphyxiation

            Fri, April 23, 2010 - 11:29 PM
            You're right, Kelly; it *is* an oxymoron. There is *no* such thing as "safe" erotic asphyxiation. There are only people who are lucky enough to not die from it - this time.
        • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

          Sun, January 10, 2010 - 1:19 AM
          You're welcome, Domina.

          The technique used medically is called "carotid sinus massage", takes very little pressure, and is used only when the heartrate is so fast as to be dangerous specifically to slow it down, and pretty much only if drug treatment fails precisely because of the risk. The risk of cardiac arrest is high indeed.

          I've been trained in it, but never had to use it.
          • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

            Tue, February 23, 2010 - 1:30 PM
            I'm afraid you are mistaken. If this is "carotid sinus massage" and is as dangerous as you want to make it out to be, there should be thousands of people dieing from this everyday! Please show me the bodies stacked like cord wood from this type of partnered play gone bad.
            • Unsu...

              Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

              Thu, March 4, 2010 - 6:47 AM
              Larry, they don't all die so there aren't stacks of bodies but how many does it take? I know that I'm not willing to be the one person that dies from this type of play this week. There are plenty of other things to do.

              You may have been doing this for 20 years and have never had an incident but 22 year old "Dom" that tries his first time could do some damage. Is it really worth it?
              • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

                Sun, May 2, 2010 - 6:11 PM
                Hi kelly.

                Have you driven or ridden in a vehicle? Walled down a flight of stairs? Taken a dump? Had sex? Just to name some very common ones. People have all died doing these things so none of them are safe to do.

                Kelly you are arguing about "carotid sinus massage" a subject you know little if anything about. You are arguing to defend Jay who doesn't know much if anymore than you do. If it were as dangerous as Jay and klg want to make it out to be, then yes the bodies would be stacked like cord wood. If it is only rarely happening, then why is it only happening in those rare instances? If a million people, 5 million, ten million do it and it doesn't happen what does that say about the odds on it happening? A 1 in a million shot at it happening, pretty impressive odds considering how many people die in vehicle accidents everyday and most people never give it a second thought.

                As you can see, safe is a relative term.

                " I know that I'm not willing to be the one person that dies from this type of play this week." I don't see anyone asking you to engage in this. I guess you only engage in activities that have no risk at all involved in them. Hope you enjoy them.

                " Is it really worth it? "
                If you had tried this you wouldn't be asking that question. Those that have actually done it want to do it again, so yes it is worth it, to them.

                "but 22 year old "Dom" that tries his first time could do some damage." well that's why folks like me are trying to talk to newbie’s so they don't crush someone’s windpipe or break their hypoid bone. Believe it or not most Doms, who aren't psychotic, are afraid they'll hurt the sub so they go slowly and wisely so. The more information they have and better prepared they are the better they'll be. That's what I'm trying to do, put some real stuff out there.
    • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

      Tue, February 23, 2010 - 1:21 PM
      Jay actually knows jack shit about breathplay and has been ripped to shreds for his concocted theory. He has no explanation or defense of for his legal and extrapolated medical theory which when questioned completely falls apart.
      Expert, I think not.
      • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

        Fri, April 23, 2010 - 11:24 PM
        And your claim to enough expertise to know that is... what?

        I'm a former paramedic and premed student, and Jay is absolutely right on with his analyses.

        He's only been ripped to shreds by people who are utterly ignorant of anything to do with medicine, physiology, or safety, and those who'd rather get their rocks off even if it kills their partners.
        • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

          Sun, May 2, 2010 - 3:26 PM
          Hmmm! Well if you are a former paramedic and premed student, just like Jay, then you both better go back to school because you both missed one hell of a lot!

          Okay Mr. Smart ass former paramedic and premed student, if this is as dangerous as you to wanabee's make it out to be then, explain how it is that people have been choked out into unconsciousness literally millions of times with no deaths or ill effects. For over 100 years! All ages, sexes and levels of fitness. It is done thousands of times every day. Funny neither you nor Jay can explain this!

          So Mr. former paramedic and premed student, explain how it is that holding your breath until passing out doesn’t cause heart attacks in healthy people? There are no reported cases of this happening and as a matter of fact go and ask your family doctor, I did! Ask a paediatrician? Tell them that your child throws a tantrum and holds their breath until they pass out.

          They are concerned about them falling and hurting themselves. They are concerned about the behaviour. I've yet to find one that is concerned about them having a fatal arrhythmia or cardiac arrest. Now these are the people with the big tickets! The real thing! Not some wannabe.

          No where have I ever said there is no risk involved in this. There is risk of dieing in everything we do! Learning how to properly manage that risk is helpful. Running around like chicken little spreading BS helps no one except for your own ego!

          If you're going to hold up your "former paramedic and premed student" badge to make it look like you know what you're talking about, at least get your shit straight, because both of you know jack shit about this subject!

          These are only two for you to answer then, we'll get into the rest of it. Oooh! The dreaded R/t!! Oh and so much more! But explain the first two, that should be so easy for you with YOUR expertise! Jay can’t answer these, he won’t even try. He got eaten alive! I can’t wait to hear your explanation.
  • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

    Tue, January 12, 2010 - 7:18 PM

    I just noticed your comment about what you've told your girl to do if you black out.

    With all due respect, you have no idea what you're talking about, and what you've told your girl to do if you "black out" is incorrect in its entirety, at best will do nothing at all, and at worst could kill you outright, even if the choking scenario doesn't take care of that by itself.

    For starters, blacking out, stopping breathing, and having your heart stop are three completely different things.

    Doing mouth to mouth respiration will do nothing at all by itself if your heart stops - and if you've just blacked out, you'll still be breathing, so it won't be necessary.

    Even if you've only stopped breathing, believe me, 2-3 breaths will *not* bring you back. Not even in your dreams.

    If your heart stops, you'll need full-on CPR - and you likely won't survive anyways, because these kinds of cardiac arrests are particularly difficult to resuscitate, even when witnessed and *correct* CPR is started immediately.

    If you're going to do this sort of play, make sure your partner is fully trained in proper CPR. And that your will and the rest of your estate are in order before you start.

    klg (former paramedic)

  • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

    Tue, February 23, 2010 - 1:08 PM
    Yes I have been taking women into blackout for over 20 years. Just a word of advice, there is a lot you obviously don't understand about doing this and believe me you two are unprepared for what you are getting into.

    I'm not telling you not to do this. What I am telling you is that there is a lot more that you two need to know before you go down this road. Yes this can be done relatively safely when done properly. From what you've said it doesn't sound like you are at that point yet. Let me know if you want to talk about it.

    Be well,
    • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

      Sun, March 14, 2010 - 7:48 AM

      I'm into erotic asphyxiation, would like to learn more from pro's?
      Anyway to avoid the headaches afterwards?

      email me: bluepuppy(AT)hushmail(DOT)com

      • K
        offline 1

        Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

        Sun, March 14, 2010 - 8:00 AM
        do you get headaches from it?? i just get a sore throat but than again my partners hands are really big compared to the size of my neck
        • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

          Sun, March 14, 2010 - 5:26 PM
          I get some sore throat, I suppose that's if you put pressure on the windpipe. I like to focus the pressure on the carotid arteries instead. I have read suggestions about using blood-pressure tourniquets for this purpose. Is there a particular type I should look for? Anything I should avoid?

          In particular I would like to avoid any visible markings on my neck. Other than padding with a towel, and avoiding the use of hard belts and ropes, are there any other suggestions? Any tips appreciated.
          • K
            offline 1

            Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

            Sun, March 14, 2010 - 10:34 PM
            Ive found that if you can still breath slightly that you don't get headaches but maybe that's just me .
            if there is too much pressure for too long, i have also found that you get little red spots around your eyes and on your face.
            soft flexible, stretchy material can be good eg silk rope , spandex blends.
            i am by no means an expert on this it is just things i have tried myself. i have never gotten a mark on my throat yet & hopefully wont.
            but me and my partner are going slowly with trying it .
            • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

              Tue, March 16, 2010 - 12:10 AM
              Thanks for the info. I like to take it as close to unconsciousness as I can. Have you experienced blackout using the equipment mentioned? You're lucky that you can avoid the headaches, but I suspect it may well be unavoidable for me.

              The most effective I have found is simply to use the hands to press on the arteries, on both sides of the adam's apple or equivalent. But for ligature placement, would you recommend near the chin, mid-level, or nearer the chest?
              • K
                offline 1

                Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

                Tue, March 16, 2010 - 2:14 AM
                i have never blackout using these equipment, i have gotten close though but have always made sure there is a way for me to remove the equipment quickly , though my body does heat up a lot . i have found that the way you hold your neck can either cut off more air or allow more air to flow. when my partner strangles me i find that the closer to my chin he goes the less it hurts my neck. though he has to be extremely careful since one of his hands is the size of my entire neck. playing by myself i am more careful using pressure of a rope as close to the top of my neck as possible and then tilting my head backwards to cut off air supply, so that if i need to breath i tilt my head forward and can breath enough to remove the rope. i have never tied the rope to anything and used my weight to strangle myself i think that is way to dangerous to even think of doing. i might have repeated myself a couple of times if so i am sorry.
                just remember to be careful
                • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

                  Tue, March 16, 2010 - 6:59 PM
                  Thank you for sharing. I have been trying to duplicate the effects of bare hands using ligatures, and have not been very successful even with a substitute rubber strip tourniquet. The problem when using ligatures, is the air passage taking the pressure away from the carotids, even though this is less of a problem nearer the chin, less risk of damaging the air passage too. Will probably experiment with a paramedic quick release tourniquet, it would provide more control over the process. and more freedom for the hands and body, no more trying to fumble with knots close to the edge. Just concerned that the plastic bit would leave markings on the neck though. Will give update on my experiments if anyone is interested.
  • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

    Fri, April 9, 2010 - 9:49 AM
    I think it is too dangerous because of sudden fibrillation or stop of heartbeat.This need a immediate help (defibrillator, adrenaline injection into heart) and the dead can still occur ! After all, when the (part) of brain have not enough oxygen, it can be damaged and You can have this damaging on the rest of life.
  • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

    Mon, May 3, 2010 - 7:24 AM
    Okay so you are dealing with chokes. John the first thing anyone doing this should do is go to your doctor. Tell them you are planning on joining a jujitsu class were they practice chokes. Ask your doctor to perform a stress test to assess your cardiovascular and respiratory fitness. Have them discuss what they think your risk factors are. Certain information in your family and personal health history can affect your risk, as can certain medications. Your doctor is the one to inform you about YOUR risk.

    So what if you and your partner went to the people that are experts at doing chokes? Now these people have been doing this for over a hundred years, millions of participants and no fatalities. Go find a competitive jujitsu school in your area. It is important to find a school that competes, and hopefully wins, because that helps assure competence. Then sign up for 2-3 months. You can tell the instructor you have a particular interest in applying and defending against chokes like the rear naked choke. If they ask why you can say because they win a lot of UFC matches and they look cool. Go and learn how to do it properly considering what’s at stake.

    Make sure the giver is CPR trained and also trained in strokes. Consider buying an AED (automated external defibrillator). Odds are you won't need it, but nothing is completely safe. Breath play has risks just like driving your car. There is all kinds of safety equipment built into your car to try and protect you. Most drivers never need this stuff, but if someone goes through a red light and runs into you, you can't hit the hold button and make changes to prepare for the crash, it's happening right now! Hopefully your safety systems work to help protect you.

    Breath play is the same thing. Hopefully you will never need any of this. But if something goes wrong it's nice to have a back up plan. You've got a 3 minute window and you've used up part of that during the play. If something ever goes wrong the giver has to be able to react quickly and effectively. If they've been trained and have everything they need right there they've got a shot at saving the day. If they just call 911 and wait for the paramedics to arrive, well don't hold your breath on surviving the incident. If an AED is used immediately you have an 86% chance of survival. If they sit back and wait for the paramedics to arrive, depending on how close they are, that drops to 10% or less. Remember that 3 minute window. They don't want to be sitting there later saying, it really wasn't that hard to do, damn why didn't I prepare for this? What’s your life worth? What’s the givers life worth?

    So you've learned how to do chokes properly so that you know where to squeeze and were not to squeeze. You're prepared, just in case something goes wrong. Now your ready to enjoy all of the amazing sensations this type of play can bring for both of you.

    "The way my girl chokes me is by pressing on my upper throat (just under my jaw) with her hand (part between her thumb and forefinger)" Look up the anatomy of the neck. Look up the hyoid bone. Learn about its importance and why you don't want to break that.

    " I told her that if I do not wake after about 30 seconds, to essentially breath 2 to 3 breaths of air into my lungs (pretty much CPR) and that should bring me back relatively soon." What you are talking about is called Artificial Respiration and she needs to tilt your head back and pinch your nose closed for this to work. Training would be really good here!

    You should be breathing on your own immediately from the A/R. That is the important first step. If your not then she needs to react very quickly and effectively. Do you have a pulse? This can be hard to find in a tense situation especially in an untrained person. Having a pulse/oxy meter would tell her instantly what was happening for under a $100 bucks. Yes or no, do you have a pulse? Is you oxygen saturation level coming up or dropping?
    Don't leave her there trying to guess at what the hell is happening inside you? If you’re breathing on your own, are there any signs of stroke. Does she know what to look for? (If a stroke victim is given the proper treatment in under 3 hours the effects can be almost if not completely reversed. Another one of those time limits.)

    If you’ve been properly checked out by your doctor, then you know what your risks are so you can prepare for them, if something happens, if you have any issues.

    You are right in that so long as your airway is clear your autonomic system will kick in and restart your breathing, if you don't push it to far. That is where she becomes the wild card. Does she let go immediately and make sure your airway is clear? Does she get caught up in the moment and it goes farther? When you're holding your own breath and you black out without any restrictions it can't go any farther. When someone else is doing it, that's a whole other story.

    Do they or both of you decide to push the envelope, just a little? How about the next time or the 50th time or the 500th time? If you do this with no preparation or training and all goes well, like anything else in life you gain confidence. Maybe even complacent because you've done it enough times without incident. I don't know anyone that has done this and enjoyed it that has only ever done it once by choice. They always want to do it again, especially the receivers!! It is an unbelievably powerful experience for them! Especially those that go into blackout! To walk right up to the very edge of the abyss then, take a step into freefall knowing that they may not comeback, but hoping like hell they do! I've know people who want to stay in that moment, or at least try to stay there longer. How do you suppose they go about achieving that? With no back-up plan and pushing the envelope, do you think their risk of something going wrong jumps exponentially?

    Coming back is just as powerful, if not more so! That's why there are a lot more people wanting to go there than there are people willing to take them there. Instinctively as a Dom you know that if something goes wrong here and you don't know how to handle it, you are fucked! There is no time out or reset button for this broken toy. So get prepared for the event that will never happen to you two, because just like everything else in life, that risk will always be there so it could happen and 3 minutes is not a lot of time to figure out what to do next!

    Slams the door, puts on his seatbelt, smiles, waves and drives away.
    • Re: Blackout? Safe erotic asphyxiation

      Mon, May 3, 2010 - 4:28 PM
      Interesting that now, all of a sudden, Larry is saying that the partner needs to be trained in CPR and that there should be a defibulator on hand... his previous posts would have you believe that it is as safe as can be... nothing to worry about, its been being done for hundreds of years, show me the bodies and other such garbage.

      I did not think I would post to this thread, but finally decided i needed to add my 2-cents. I will personally tell everyone that to play with this, is to invite probable heartache into what is supposed to be enjoyable. Just as with playing with fire will sooner or later get you burned, or playing with snakes will finally get you bit, playing with this will sooner or later go too far. It may be due to a medical condition, or lack of sufficient knowledge of recovery methods, or any of a score of other possible problems.

      Frankly, i do not care how many times it has been done "safely" in the past, one could also ask how many strangulations have resulted in death over the ages. It is catigorically STUPID to do anything in sexual play that can possibly result in the death or dismemberment of anyone involved.

      Larry seems to enjoy degrading those who dissagree with him in this, and cannot accept their knowledge on the subject, considering himself to be the ultimate authority. I am curious Larry, what is YOUR medical background and training?

      I wil tell you mine... I am a doctor of Traditional Chinese Medicine with over 17 years of clinical practice specalizing in sports medicine and accident trauma. I am also an upper level black belt and teacher of Ninjutsu and Juitisu in both of which we use and teach many differnet types of chokouts, many of which will not only choke you, but crush your larynix in the process. I also have at least 3rd degree blackbelts in three other punch-kick styles of martial arts as well as Tai Chi, Ba Gua and Shing-I, and am a Master of both Qi Gong and Reiki energy work.

      One other thing that was touched on by one of the posts... in the process of asphyxiation, the reason you black out it because oxygen isn't being delivered to the brain to keep you concious. When the brain cells lack O2 for even a short period of time, they die. Sure, you have billions of brain cells, but killing then for the fun of it is simply stupidity in the extream as you cannot regrow them. I am aftaid that if Larry has been doing this sort of play for as long as he states, from his posts, i would say that he has lost too many brain cells already and shoud stop before he looses too many more.

      I repeat myself... any type of "play" that endangers the life, or limb of the participants is simply stupid in the extream. I have a very broad range of experience in the culture, but always assure my subs that my hard limits are no play that is medically contra-indicated or that may leave a permanite injury or marks (with the exception of possible tatoos). But in terms of "erotic asphyxiation", from a medical perspective, there is NO safe way to "play".

      Lady Tara, OMD, L.Ac., LMP/NCTMB, Shidoshi-ho

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