hello
i'd like to discuss the folowing: prices in belgium!!!
i have recently again come across a dancer who goes and performs for very little money in a student costume. i really dont think i need to explain on here what's wrong with that, but if you are wondering here is a list of some good articles...
www.samirashuruk.com/standar...nes.html
www.samirashuruk.com/perform...ism.html
so, i thought it would be a good idea to have a discussion about professionalism and prices in belgium?
what do we think a bellydancer performance costs? or should cost?
Artemisia
i'd like to discuss the folowing: prices in belgium!!!
i have recently again come across a dancer who goes and performs for very little money in a student costume. i really dont think i need to explain on here what's wrong with that, but if you are wondering here is a list of some good articles...
www.samirashuruk.com/standar...nes.html
www.samirashuruk.com/perform...ism.html
so, i thought it would be a good idea to have a discussion about professionalism and prices in belgium?
what do we think a bellydancer performance costs? or should cost?
Artemisia
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Belgium
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Re: how much do YOU charge? what to charge? professionalism in bellydance
Mon, July 14, 2008 - 9:41 PMIt is difficult sometimes. From when on are you a professional performer?
I don't know what to ask either, when I'm asked to perform somewhere. I have been bellydancing for 8 years, last two years ATS and tribal fusion. I'm not a professional dancer, but what do I charge? Same thing with workshops, how much do you charge? I love teaching workshops, so sometimes, when it's for a good cause, I teach them for free. The same with performances. But is that doing bad to the Belgian Market? I don't know... -
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Re: how much do YOU charge? what to charge? professionalism in bellydance
Tue, July 15, 2008 - 5:48 AMi think there is nothing wrong with teaching or performing for free for events/good causes/things you want to support. i do the same. my personal rule for myself is: if the other performers/teachers/entertainment are getting paid, so should i. but if everyone is donating their time/workshop/show and i support the cause, or they are my friends and family etc, i dont mind doing the same and do a freebie. i do make sure people know what it would have costs and that they are in fact getting a present.
when are you a professional performer? that is easy in fact, you are when you ask MONEY for your services. it has nothing to do with how good you are or how long you have been dancing. if you (not you:katrien, but the general you here...) want to get paid, you want to be a professional, then you should behave and charge professionally..
if you (general you) think you are not worth a professional fee, yes, i think than you should not be performing for money (or only perform for free at communtiy events and at hafla's, etc)... if you ask money, but ask too little, that is when someone is ruining the market/undercutting. and that is when people start thinking that a "professional" bellydancer costs 50E and comes in a student costume.
level of dancing is another issue...
so, let's talk:
(ps, this is about dancing for the GP, when dancing for other dancers, hafla's, shows, it's usually very different. when i dance in someone elses show, it's often for free, or an expense pay, and when i organise shows myself, ditto. otherwise there wouldnt be any shows).
I myself charge between 175 and 200E for a single set. from 250-300E for two sets. and for two dancers it starts at 300E (150E each). by bottom line is 150E, for gigs where i dont have to travel etc and for multiple dancer gigs. depending on the client i add travel fees or drop them. for corporate gigs i charge more cause they are often more work (extra rehearsals etc). when it's a large group performing/corportate shows, i start at 100E per dancer for the choir, and 150-200E for soloists.
my students who are just starting to perform, i tell them that ideally they should not go under a 150 Euro's, and absolute bottom line is a 100E. everything under than for me is undercutting.
Artemisia -
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Re: how much do YOU charge? what to charge? professionalism in bellydance
Wed, July 16, 2008 - 1:00 AMThank you guys, for being so open about this!
I’m what you’d call a professional wannabe :o) And this is exactly the kind of info we newbies to the business need!
A little background info:
I’ve been dancing for about 4 years now and over the last 6 months, the urge to becoming a pro is getting bigger every day. My dancing skills aren’t TOPlevel, but I keep on educating myself and I think I’ve grown a lot over the last few months (and keep on growing) and I do think I’m able to give people a quality, entertaining show.
I started out dancing with others at birthday parties for friends, usually for free, or some “drink money”. A few months ago, I started a duo with my partner in crime, Chadia, and we wanted to perform professionally.
But what to charge??
I surfed the internet, looking for Belgian and Dutch dancers and finding out what they charge. The outcome was so variable: some would ask 250 euro for 1 dancer, 1 set and others only 60 euro for the same thing! (I don’t remember who it was, but she did have a pro costume and even gave classes), so we decided to ask something in between: 125 for 1 dancer, 1 set and 200 for 2 dancers (transport costs not included).
So, we putted up some ads and waited…. Requests came in! Yay!
But…. No bookings! Maybe we charged too much?
A few weeks ago: another request, it was closeby so we decided to alter our price a bit: 100 euro for one dancer and 185 euro total for the two of us and this time, we got booked! 185/2= 92,5, so I guess we made ourselves guilty of undercutting a bit… Not on purpose, but because you just don’t have a clue when you’re beginning…
Anyway, by now we have our website and business cards and our first bella is on its way. Once we have our pro costume, we’re also gonna do a photoshoot, so we do want to handle it all in a professional way. Posts like this and the help of our coach (thanks Khalida!) really help us doing it the right way!
And when you think of al the investments you make, yes it’s true, we shouldn’t perform for less than 100 – 125! -
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Re: how much do YOU charge? what to charge? professionalism in bellydance
Wed, July 16, 2008 - 7:36 AMhey,
i know it's tempting cause it's more fun going to perform the two of you together, than just one dancer; but if they book TWO dancers, they should really PAY for two dancers,
and, i think you really really should develop towards charging a minimum of 150E if they book just the one dancer and 200-250E for two dancers!! and that should be the price of 20 minutes, not more, not more sets or costume changes!
PLUS travel! with gas prices today.
a 100E should not be your goal, a 100E is the absolute minimum!
i can understand it's scary - "am i worth that much", "can i really charge that much?", "and of course i cant charge as much as my teacher khalida who is sooooo good and won a competition". we have all been in that position at some point. i also understand that you really really want to get booked. but trust me, try to be patient, make sure you get good enough to charge those prices, and gigs will come!
besides, it is true, people treat you depending on what you charge, if you come 'cheap", that's what you "are", to them.
i also get many clients who balk at the price and dont call back. but that's because people really sometimes call first and dont think, or yes, because their friend had TWO dancers at their party for a 185E who danced two sets. and than me or khalida ask that for dancing ONCE for 15 minutes.... or because they just do not have the budget for entertainment. the fact that the calles does not have the budget for the entertainment they want, does not mean we should charge less.
and, as a compairison, look up what half an hour of a clown at a children's party costs, you'd be surprised...
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Re: how much do YOU charge? what to charge? professionalism in bellydance
Wed, July 16, 2008 - 6:06 AMThanks for this post Artemisia, interesting discussion!
My prices are comparable to yours, for one "standard-set" I usually charge somewhere between 185 and 215 euros plus travel costs, depending a bit on the kind of event and the budget of the organiser.
For schools, charity events and nursing homes I ask a bit less. In most cases they do have a budget for entertainment so when they ask I tell them my normal price and add that I can adapt to their budget. I do explain to them that they get a cheaper price from me than I normally ask, because otherwise they might tell a too low price if anyone else asks them afterwards how much it would cost to hire me.
For corporate gigs I ask more, around 265-325 Euros (sometimes even more) base price plus travel fee for one "standard set". In many cases (ever since the contest ;-) they preferred a longer performance, so then the price goes up accordingly.
Corporates are generally willing to pay a decent price for a good performance, BUT it can be more hassle with contracts, rehearsals, wainting time etc.. so that has to be counted as well.
For two or more sets of 10-15 minutes I add half of the "standard-set" price for each additional set, so its consistent for that specific client.
Letting people choose the length of the performance according to their budget can win some extra clients too, so I always mention that the price partially depends on the duration of the show. (if its nearby and price is an issue I sometimes offer to do a mini-show at a reduced price, so max 10-15 minutes. And I do make a big fuss about giving them a discount, even if its just 10 euros ;-)
For my *very* first solo I got 75 euros, it was an "opening act" of 5-10 minutes for a teacher. After that I got a booking for my very second solo, I upped the price for that to around 100 euros, the time after that I added 15 euros plus travel fee and so on.. each time I performed I learned a lot and that gave me confidence to charge more, the money I earned was invested in better costumes and good workshops, which resulted in better pictures on the site and higher quality shows, so more requests and so on..
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Re: how much do YOU charge? what to charge? professionalism in bellydance
Tue, July 15, 2008 - 5:50 AMworkshops
- beginners tasters workshops i charge 125E for the first two hours (even if it's just a 1H workshop), and 50E for each hour on top. If the group is more than 25 people, i charge an extra 25E per hour, to pay my assistant
- "topic" workshops (for other dancers, at festivals), i charge a 100E per hour, plus travel fees, or a percentage. mostly this is a question of negotiation (expenses, hotels, etc are an extra thing to negotiate). -
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Re: how much do YOU charge? what to charge? professionalism in bellydance
Tue, July 15, 2008 - 12:39 PMWhen we dance with our tribal troupe, we charge 350€ for 2x 15 min. It depends on how many dancers are dancing that evening. It ranges from 3 dancers up to 7 dancers.
Workshops depend on who is asking. If it's for some people I know, I do it for free or charge 20 to 40 €. Otherwise I charge 75€ for 1,5 hour.
When you come to think of it. All the time and money you put in costumes, jewelry, makeup, training, lessons, travels for workshops, etc.
What we charge isn't much...
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