Ageism

topic posted Mon, December 29, 2008 - 3:42 PM by  Rhonda
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Ok, girls... Here's the situation. An email circulated throughout the dancers here in town, offering employment at a local restaurant for dancers under the age of 35. Duh... my first reaction was "Restaurant work is a young person's gig." However, the more I thought about it, the madder I got. There are laws that prevent employers from discriminating on the basis of age. If a restaurant ran an ad for wait staff under the age of 35, they'd get their butts sued off. So, why is it ok to discriminate against dancers? And who determined that 35 is the "magic age" for retirement, anyway? I've seen restaurant dancers who are well past AARP age in other cities. Their age wasn't an issue. They were obviously hired for their skill and talent. In all fairness, the restaurant wasn't circulating the email. A local dance "diva" put it out there on behalf of the restaurant's management. So, what do you think? Am I over-reacting here or is this discrimination of the worst kind at work?


posted by:
Rhonda
Washington
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  • Re: Ageism

    Mon, December 29, 2008 - 3:49 PM
    As a male bellydancer and drummer, I'll point out a few things:

    Restaurant gigs are used with certain ideas in mind, the foremost being entertainment. Currently many people view bellydancing with an image of a younger woman dancing in slightly revealing outfits (at the very least). The restaurant biz in question simply isn't interested in entertaining the possibility of turning away customers because of their Hollywoodized expectations being shot down. It's agist, 'beauty-ist', and discriminatory, but the restaurant biz doesn't create that; they simply respond in accord.

    If you begin here, you can start attacking strip clubs for having their own age limit, amongst other businesses. Point is, if you attack the restuarant on this basis, they'll simply make the agism less explicit and still get what they want by not overtly saying why you're not being hired.

    ~ Kole
    • Re: Ageism

      Mon, December 29, 2008 - 3:59 PM
      I've encountered this problem too but it doesn't mean that much to me to work in a restaurant. You know being older has lots of other advantages, like I have the money to do some of the things I just dreamed of when I was younger. So I try to focus my dance energy where I will be appreciated instead of where I will be judged for things I can't help.
      my 2 cents
    • Re: Ageism

      Mon, December 29, 2008 - 4:14 PM
      Ok, I think you're missing my point. I'm talking about an arbitrary line being drawn in the sand, here. If you're over 35, you're out the door. I've seen some 30 year old dancers who look like they've been rode hard and put away wet, as they say in cowboy country. And, I've seen older dancers who are youthful, vibrant and well loved by the restaurant crowd. We're not talking about a "hollywood" setting here. We're talking about a neighborhood bistro. And, I'm not attacking the restaurant, per se. If anything, I'm "attacking" the woman who sent out the e-mail basically saying those over 35 didn't need to apply. The restaurant in question did hire a woman over 35 when the dust settled. I really don't give a flying fig about strip clubs, who works there or who goes there. And, am not really sure what that has to do with belly dancing.
      • Re: Ageism

        Mon, December 29, 2008 - 6:09 PM
        They already chose someone over 35? Very well then; attack the lady and make her e-mail apparent to the business owner. If she is the business owner, tough beans.

        If the latter is true, then give in to the fact that they want 35 and younger bellydancers. I'm not going to pitch a fit just because a director chooses another actor over me because they fit their expectations more (the guy was 20 years older and 'fit the bill' more for them). It's their business, and their prerogative to be as specific as possible in what they want in workers there. File a complaint and look into discriminatory work laws if you think they're violating certain rights.

        With the strip club aspect, you're choosing to ignore the point being made (that age discrimination is rampant there, but isn't addressed, and do you think others venues should receive the same work discrimination challenges/attacks as the one you're considering towards restaurant in question).

        Good luck.

        ~ Kole
        • Re: Ageism

          Mon, January 12, 2009 - 3:23 PM
          Actually, Rhonda is correct. If the dancer position is advertised as "employment" and the restaurant is otherwise bound by the Civil Rights Act, they would most likely have been found in violation based on the wording of their advertisement. If they didn't include it and interviewed and hired with the requirement in mind, it would be harder to prove. Not impossible over time, but harder.
          • Re: Ageism

            Mon, January 12, 2009 - 3:28 PM
            I forgot to say...

            There's another thread on this tribe about opinions. Most writers said a person should be able to state their opinion...

            A case like this is a perfect example of when people SHOULD speak up not just quietly walk away. Remember, silence implies acceptance. If you don't speak up to the employer, they wouldn't know something is offensive or illegal.
  • Re: Ageism

    Mon, January 19, 2009 - 6:52 AM
    Who circulated the email? That's the first question in my mind - another dancer, or the restaurant? I know even dancers will discriminate because they feel they can't "bring in" someone who doesnt' fit the glamorous show biz image, doing so would reflect on them - I'm not saying it's right, just saying it happens. I find the 35 a funny pick tho, in DC there have been many popular (that is steadily employed) dancers over 40 & even 50! But that might be due to the larger ethnic population compared to where you are?
    • Re: Ageism

      Mon, January 19, 2009 - 10:24 AM
      *takes deep breath*

      I find the up front and hidden ageism thing utterly insulting, and it's a huge
      shame that the myth that only pretty young women (or men)
      are good enough to entertain is perhaps also being perpetuated
      by dancers conforming to what they imagine are an audience's expectations.

      I've even seen someone advertise for troupe members under 35.

      On a lighter note, the idea that this means they would have to turn down
      Rachel Brice if she turned up auditioning for either restaurant or troupe is
      quite hilarious...

      On a more serious note. One of the things that draws me to bellydance is its
      self-empowering nature. The way the dance and the costumes accentuate
      and bring out individuality, femininity and strength. It's insulting to all women
      to even partially discard them and their skills because they happen to be older than
      some artificially imposed age limit.

      Obviously there's an element of
      wanting the dancer to be conventionally attractive. That's sadly something
      we're always up against, no matter our age, but while some proportion
      of the population are always going to have a bias for youth/appearance
      over skill and energy and stage presence, there are plenty that
      appreciate the older dancer.

      Not least of which is the inspiration it gives women (and men) that this dance,
      and the health, community, self-esteem and happiness benefits that come
      with it can be embraced at ANY age.

      I didn't start til just before my 40th. While I have no illusions (or desire)
      to do restaurants or professional solos the dance rescued my
      self-esteem and pretty much my sanity after a painful relationship.
      While it's not the be all and end all I feel more confident in my
      attractiveness than ever (other, perhaps than the first month of turning
      up in a 90% male physics department, before I realised a lot of
      the attention was 'rarety' value!), and I thoroughly enjoy all the
      planning and dressing up for student solo performances and
      professional troupe routines and it saddens me that the message
      the media, and even members of the dance community, put out
      there about age.

      I would love to see older guest performers regularly with the BDSS for
      instance. I've heard the strain of touring being touted as a reason
      for some age limitations, but that wouldn't rule out slots
      for local dancers to showcase their talents.

      ok, rant over. Off to prepare for salsa class, where one guy
      told me last week he thought I was 35 max. 'But your
      body isn't 42' was his stunned response. So maybe I could've
      snuck into a restaurant gig anyhow ;)

      happy dancing everyone, and NEVER let anyone convince you you're
      too old.
      • Re: Ageism

        Mon, January 19, 2009 - 3:55 PM
        "...On a lighter note, the idea that this means they would have to turn down
        Rachel Brice if she turned up auditioning for either restaurant or troupe is
        quite hilarious... "

        Stop! I'm bustin a gut here...turn down Rachel Brice???? BTW, how old is she? She looks about 14 to me, but then...that's why I'm a crone! LOLOLOLOLOLOL
        • Re: Ageism

          Mon, January 19, 2009 - 10:19 PM
          Rachel.... last time i checked... she was 97
          :D
          • Re: Ageism

            Tue, January 20, 2009 - 3:13 PM
            If anyone has been watching Superstars of Dance on Monday night (a MUST SEE!!!!) , the really good ones have character in their faces. In India, age is beauty and their dancers shine with wisdom, great training and years of dance. I am certainly a better belly dancer than when I started in 1976 (thank-god) .
            The ease at which the state of bliss comes during a dance is inhanced by experience. That, my lovlies, is a win win situation. Dance like nobody is watching and age will become a poof in the wind!
  • Re: Ageism

    Sun, March 8, 2009 - 2:40 PM
    Rhonda: It absolutely IS illegal and you have a right to be upset. The restaurant certainly has the right to hire who they want to, but to put an age limit in writing is against the law. It would be worth reminding them in writing that they need to be more careful about their wording if they don't want to be hit with an EEOC complaint.

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