So, for lack of a better place to ask this question, and given that most people who visit this particular tribe are consistent dancers/performers, I'll ask here.

You know those days when you first started dancing because it looked fun, or it was good for your health or wow, I want to be able to do that... ok. Then all the sudden you find kuchi every where, your sword is on the back of your favorite chair so you can grab it for a quick ten or fifteen minute practice and you nowspeak a new language that has no words.

At what point have you stopped taking bellydance class and become a bellydancer? Sometimes I wonder if I'm still pretending and/or overreaching myself to say I'm a bellydancer... do I have to be good enough to say that I'm a bellydancer? How many years have I had to have been dancing before I'm a dancer? Is it a number or a feeling or an amount of workshops or events that I've attended... like I said sometimes I feel like I just pretend and I'll never be a 'real' bellydancer! What do ya'll think!

* Sorry, if it isn't really appropriate for here, I couldn't think of a better place to ask in the myriad of my tribes! *
posted by:
Basha
New Jersey
  • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

    Thu, February 28, 2008 - 10:43 AM
    Hi Basha!
    All of the Belly Dancers I know continue to study throughout their lives. Some are pros, some are life long lovers of the dance who perform at showcases and hafli without pay or just dance for their own enjoyment.
    I considered myself a Belly Dancer after I began booking jobs regularly, became the house dancer at a restaurant, was asked to start teaching by my teacher. But that's me. I think everyone defines themselves differently.
    As far as education, I think that anyone who STOPS taking classes is no longer a belly dancer...
    Gia
  • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

    Thu, February 28, 2008 - 12:35 PM
    If you find yourself thinking "I don't need class anymore, I'm a bellydancer now", chances are you are suffering from Arrogant Intermediate Dancer syndrome.
    Everyone needs class. The best dancers are the ones who never stop studying.
    • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

      Thu, February 28, 2008 - 2:01 PM
      lol... I just realized how you all were reading it! he he... no question is more a soulful... where is the difference between I take belly dance class, rather than saying I AM a belly dancer... does that make sense?

      and I never could quit class... it's my happy time, and my happy place, I look forward to it all day and I usually have an amazing day the next day too. it's like crack for my soul!
      • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

        Thu, February 28, 2008 - 2:16 PM
        I understand what you're saying. I asked a similar question but I didn't phrase it as well as you did! I've often wondered this myself. I realize that bellydancers never really stop being students but I suppose I would call myself a 'bellydancer' after my first professional performance. I'm curious to see where this thread goes, so I'll be checking back in!

        Happy Shimmies!

        ~Faedra
      • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

        Thu, February 28, 2008 - 2:16 PM
        I started saying I was a bellydancer after I started performing. Until then I always said I was a bellydancing student. I think it is all on how you feel about it, there is no distinctive line.
        • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

          Thu, February 28, 2008 - 4:14 PM
          hehehe! I always call myself a bellydancer in training, but I think that once you perform its safe to say........hey! I'm a bellydancer ;)
          • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

            Thu, February 28, 2008 - 9:20 PM
            I will never perform. So far i have been able to attend two classes each a year apart. The rest of the time i learn from dvds and YouTube (one of the teachers i have met live). I do it for joy and to stay in shape. I enjoy the comradarie of getting to know other dancers in Tribe and yahoo groups. I hope to attend some workshops in the next year as well as meeting with the teacher again.
            • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

              Thu, February 28, 2008 - 9:23 PM
              oops i didn't finish.. .. Sooo since I will never perform, but practice every day on my own and have done that for 2 and a half years. Since i work hard to improve and do the moves correctly. Since i believe that belly dance is about support for and bonding between women and just the joy of movement and developing confidence and joy in the way my body can move... does this mean i'll never be a belly dancer?
              • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

                Fri, February 29, 2008 - 2:26 AM
                of course your a bellydancer Irena, we're all bellydancers lol! Bellydancing is a frame of mind, a state of being
                and in my little head lol if I got up and perform for a show or hafla or what ever, then I can say to myself hey I'm a bellydancer! Thats just what allowed me call myself a bellydancer, I didn't mean it to sound like no one is a bellydancer unless they perform, for all of us who work at it and improve themselves, who dance for the joy of it, and its always on your mind and heart your a bellydancer!! :)
    • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

      Fri, February 29, 2008 - 4:08 AM
      So true Sara, so True...Arrogant Intermediate Dancer syndrome, I know a few people who suffer from that;) and it's true, dancers should always strive to improve and expand on their knowledge and creativity, whether that's by training with others, collaborations, taking other dance forms on etc bellydancing is about creativity and is not static and once you've learnt one set of moves you are now finished learning...our teachers admit that they are still students themselves...and that Should be the case!
  • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

    Thu, February 28, 2008 - 9:27 PM
    I began calling myself a bellydancer when I was invited to join our troupe. And like all of you, I take as many classes, workshops, attend as many shows, buy as much shiny sparkly stuff as I can. I'm so glad this is an art that I can never learn all of, I can just keep getting better and better as I work hard at it.
    I will never be a pro, I'm 53 and fat, but I can give joy and beauty to myself and to others.
    • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

      Fri, February 29, 2008 - 2:25 AM
      thanks for the thoughts! For some reason things like this plague me now and again!

      it seems to me it's more a heart thing, I dont' think we can take enough classes or too few classes to base a classifcation off of ithat. I know somethings in life are simply not quantifiable to a point and the engineer in my takes that to a fault sometimes, so I think if I can just do this, or make it here, I'll feel better and less like a poser or some non-sense. But I read through the, 'you know your a bd when' thing and laughed because it was so accurate and I know many people like that. So I guess if it needs a quanitfication that list is as good as any! mostly because that's an obsession checklist rather than an achievement one, but I dont' know! That's why I done did ask ya good folks. =)

      LDSJflsdjf grumble grumble, quick practice and sneakage of the tribe before work sucks, but it gets my fix. damn working, it gets in the way of practice!

      cheers ladies!
      • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

        Fri, February 29, 2008 - 6:12 AM
        I bet my post sounded really pissy and directed at Basha in particular, which was not the spirit I meant it in. so I apologize :(
        More accurately, I should just reiterate what other people have said and that is-- you can be a real live bellydancer and still be a student. I think it is not a matter of skill level but just where your heart is. At some point along the line I fell in love with bellydance (I didn't love it to begin with, it was too hard and a pain in the ass! haha) and that's when I started thinking of myself as a bellydancer.
        • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

          Fri, February 29, 2008 - 6:48 AM
          No worries, I read it and went... oh my. I didn't mean what I wrote the way I wrote it! So I had to clarify as well. I personally believe the truly educated never graduate and like I learned with horses I see in dance, every one has something they can teach you, no matter how old or young, how long they have been dancing. Everyone has something to offer.

          It has become more a part of my soul than I thought, I loved it to begin with but now it's an obsession, but sometimes I think, I'm TERRIBLE, I'm not a bellydancer I just take class, I'll never be good enough to be calling myself that, but then I turn around and realize ti's not about skill... it's about the obsession, and a lovely one at that.
      • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

        Fri, February 29, 2008 - 6:14 AM
        I have to agree - it's a "heart" thing - a state of mind. At first, bellydancing was just something to do 'cause I enjoyed it......then it became a hobby...then a serious hobby...well, ya'll get the picture.

        I think I *became* a bellydancer when I finally had the self-confidence to say I was a bellydancer - without qualifying it as "something to do" or the "latest hobby".

        A while back, my daughters listed all the *jobs* I had...along with Mom, dog feeder, clothes washer, worker-with-Daddy, chauffer, etc...they listed "bellydancer". ;-)
  • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

    Fri, February 29, 2008 - 9:54 AM
    I became a belly dancer when I started performing, specifically solos. Up until then I felt (IMO) about myself, that I was a student performing, not a "dancer".
    Now I live & breathe it. I teach 4 classes a week. I belong to 2 troupes. It's ALL I read about online, LOL.
    When someone says "oh I can't afford that workshop" and it's a local $40 workshop, I just look at them in wonderment thinking.... "guess you're really not there yet are you"?? LOL :)
    But I know that I'm totally over the top and it's my passion, not their's, so oh well.
    • Re: I take dance class??... no... I'm a bellydancer.

      Fri, February 29, 2008 - 11:47 AM
      In my little world, in my little brain, I became a bellydancer when I realized bellydance was the best way to express my artsy creative self. People seemed to like to watch me dance when I performed, so I took it upon myself to call myself a bellydancer. Since that time, nobody has seen fit to correct me (well, except one person who refuses to acknowledge anybody but HER is a real bellydancer.)

      Again, for me, calling myself a bellydancer instead of a student meant (TO ME) a higher level of responsibility. It meant I had to train more seriously. It meant I had to practice. It meant I had to know the different styles, and understand the music and rhythms. It meant I had to work to get good enough at my CRAFT that I could elevate it to ART. Those are MY standards, for me. Your mileage will differ.

      BUT -- I'm always a student. Always will be, I believe.
  • initially...

    Fri, February 29, 2008 - 12:10 PM
    ...I took dance lessons. You know - ballet/tap/jazz stuff. The class had a gymnastics component as well. This I did through middle school. Because of life circumstances, I had to quit classes. However, I made it a point to get to school early or stay after classes... I had a corner in the gym where I danced. I put on music and choreographed... I mixed up moves I hadn't neccessarily been taught. I realize now that I was actually venturing into modern dance with no outside guidance. Slowly, I drifted away from this (after graduation) as the Army took over my life, and my dance outlet became two-step, swing dance, and line dancing. Finding partners has sometimes been a challenge. When I found my way to college, I realized the drive to dance was still there, and completely unsatisfied. I took up ballet once again. At first, I go to class, and learn about the dance (ballet/mosern/bellydance/whatever). Then, one day, I realize that I'm going through the motions, but I look akward. I want to look like that girl in the first row with the infinite extensions above 90 degrees... I want the easy grace and strength that make the movements look effortless... and I realize the difference is a state of mind. Dirung my Intermediate Ballet class, I discovered how terrible I looked in the mirror. Some days, I felt lost. Uncoordinated. Just plain stupid. I realized what the difference was that I saw in the other dancers. Some of them KNEW they were ballerinas. Some of them just wished for it.
    I am now a ballerina. I am now a bellydancer. It has little to do with time-in-class or how long I've studied, or how good I am. I OWN it. I walk into class and I tell myself "No matter what we dance today, even if I don't grok the movements, I will dance it, and I will OWN it." I have made it mine, and I express myself through the dance. It doesn't mean that I'm good at it, but this is the distinction between "going to class" and "dancer" for me. I am a ballerina. I am a bellydancer. I am a DANCER! :-)
    • Re: initially...

      Fri, February 29, 2008 - 2:24 PM
      "I am a DANCER!!"

      AMEN!!!! That is exactly how I feel and what I tell people. I am a dancer, heart and soul. I'm a middlin' ballroom dancer, a baby belly dancer, a fairly good country dancer and a rockin' pop dancer, but above all - I am a DANCER. : )

      "The perfect dance is a synergy of music, passion and movement. It transcends the here and now and suffuses the moment with an evanescent joy that permeates one's entire being. I live only for that moment." : )
    • Re: initially...

      Sat, March 1, 2008 - 7:52 PM
      i have been feeling so awkward lately. you have no idea how much that post just helped my confidence and drive. i think i might actually cry!!! :::BIIIIIIIIIIIG HUUUUUUUGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!!::: thank you!!!!! ^_^
      • Re: initially...

        Sun, March 2, 2008 - 10:56 PM
        I second this post. I read this thread and found nothing but encouraging words and sisterhood that I have yet to find around where i live. Perhaps that I might be looking in all the wrong places. But I am sooo grateful for this tribe and so very very happy that I stumbled upon it. I agree that you are always a bellydancer so long as the dance is in your heart. It was always in mine. And I keep dancing everyday whenever I can. Some of these posts have left me speechless. And I have no words to describe this other than this is truly inspirational. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for this. Thanks!
  • For me it was a very personal journey, that involved overcoming some awful psychological abuse in my childhood (my mother is mentally ill).
    I always loved to dance. But somehow I ended up with a man who does not like to dance. So for a very very long time bellydance was something I did at home in private for personal enjoyment. Period.
    The biggest turning points for me were, what I call, Diamonds from Heaven. Little gems of joy that just fall out of nowhere right into your lap. I was over 40, but a well known dancer still encouraged me to try out for her troupe & tour. Alas, I could not go on any tour due to responsibilities at home. I thought it was a fluke ... until it happened again, with a different person, two years later! That was when I finally realized that YES I AM A DANCER! Music is a part of my soul and my body is an instrument. I don't need to carry around the baggage of my childhood - most of the nasty, repressed adults who slapped that baggage on me then are gone now anyway. But I'm alive. I live. I must celebrate with dance!!
    • You ladies are so inspriational! I am glad too that this has helped some ladies. I struggle with it when I have to explain to people my hobbies and sometimes I feel it's almost a lie for me to say 'I am a belly dancer' thoughts of never being good enough and claiming it and just struggling with making my body bend to the will of my soul frustrate me. It's very disheartening sometimes that I feel my body will never be as good as my soul longs to be.

      But in my heart, I believe even when I'm not performing, or taking class I'm a dancer, I always practice and I always obsess and although I'm not musically inclined I sucked terribly at ballet and tap as a child, I belive I'm still a dancer. My little niche in an artistic form that is powerful and thrilling. So many women with so many stories just blow my mind. I have such admiration for all of my sister dancers and I am blessed to say I am a kindred dancer and related by blood that beats by the dum's through all of us.
  • For me...I usually say " I do Tribal Bellydance"...when I first started taking classes...I think I was saying the same thing, only with MED, before I knew I didn't have to defend the dance so hard.

    Now...I think I'm waiting to call myself a bellydancer...until it is my sole occupation. I dance all the time. I love to dance. I do dance/ I dance. Buuuut...until I can make my living off it and nothing else...when I can devote my life to dancing...I am not a dancer...I think it's also a confidence thing though...I remember when I read the War of Art, he said the difference between being a professional and being an amature, was KNOWING/THINKING/ACTING like you are a professional. You must consider youself a dancer/ an artist, etc.

    I am on MY way to becoming a bellydancer/perhaps a dancer in general. It's hard for me to explain. I know I am artist....because I have being doing art in many different forms for years...something in me knows I am an artist. But, I don't feel comfortable yet saying I am a dancer, or a bellydancer...just that I dance.
    • I can understand why you might feel that way about bellydance being your sole occupation, but I know so many amazing dancers who just couldn't pay their bills if BD was their only source of income. I mean "top names", famous, well-known dancers, as well as people I know locally who are very talented and "professional" in terms of work ethic. Some people can make it work and some people can not. Even when BD is your sole source of income, it's not your only job. You frequently also have to be an accountant, an event organizer, a booking agent... etcetera.
      In short, I don't think working another job to pay your bills makes you any less of a dancer!
      To me it is not about profession but where your heart is and your level of commitment. I love dance, but if I were to stop working I would lose my healthcare and access to things like physical therapy that make it possible for me to dance. Moreover, I would probably not be able to afford the things I do to continue my dance education, like classes, private lessons and workshops. Maybe I wouldn't starve, but the economy is looking worse and worse every day, and so even though I would love to have more free time, I'm glad to have a stable job, even though my heart is in dance.
      For a while I thought maybe I was just a slacker, but more and more I look around and see many of the dancers I really respect and admire are in very similar positions.
      • when asked "are you a bellydancer?" or "are you a fire dancer?" i tend to modestly say, "i am a student."
        i say this because i realize there is always room for growth, and even though bellydance consumes so much of my time, energy, and thoughts, i will perpetually be a student of the art, for i see those that have come a long way and i know i still have a long way left to go.
  • I beleive it depends upon the individual...

    For me it was quick/quick - after the third class I was hooked.
    I started w/ the one class, but practiced every day at home (except days that had class). But soon added DVDs and additional classes (at one point taking 5 classes a week (not everyday - as some classes back to back same night), and took any/every workshop could afford to attend. After a bit I began performing, and just recently (like w/ in the last week) opened a studio of my own.
    I still practice at least an hour every day - whether in class or at home/other, and this in addition to any performing that do.

    But there are gals what started that first class w/ me that only BD in class and sluff it off the rest of the time.
    They are still "just in class" and not graduated to the "I'm a BDer". But thats ok - at least they are still dancing.
    • I think it's going to be hard for me to make this decision, I'm just that kind of semi self-conscious person. I don't feel like I can say 'I'm a Belly Dancer' at the present moment. In fact when talking about it I always find myself saying 'I take Belly Dancing classes' or even the other night I was joking around with my boyfriend that I hurt my shoulder and couldn't do snake arms and said '*I'll be* the Belly Dancer with one arm.' I do feel like I will get there, because I so badly *want* to. And apparently it shows because, while trying to straighten out the choreography that our class is doing people keep telling me 'you should be a teacher, you're so into it.'. But I have personal feelings that comments like that can go to ones head lol And ultimately end up with teachers who aren't really qualified to teach (different thread lol). So I just smile and kindly thank them, and it is encouraging, but I just *know* that my skill level is not there YET. I am a Belly Dancer in my heart, and one of my instructors has told me to perform at a workshop or hafla in a year, so perhaps then my skill level will match how I feel and I WILL be able to say 'I'm a Belly Dancer!'
      • It's kind of hard!

        I'm glad I'm not the only one who struggles with that. I really feel in my soul that I am, buuuuuut I feel like I can't quiet make it and I feel that taking on the mantle of saying I AM a bellydancer will almost disgrace the rest of those beautiful talented women who are! Buut it is what I am and it is the one thing (next to my horse) that turns me into that small girl again and even a quarter made my eyes light up and dance around foolishly. (please note this happened when my melo's arrive... I just jumped up and down and squeeled and spun and went oohhhhh ahhhhhh ahhhhhh they are fun OMG this is fantastic)

        I think more times than nott I say I bellydance, rather than I am a bellydancer. And that subtle difference eases my mind about not being quiet good enough to call myself that.
        • Hi Basha. I'm late for this but it is interesting because I feel I am just in between the two stages. This year will be a transition in between both so I am looking for performance opportunities. Without an audience I feel I can't get away from being a student and become a dancer. I am putting excercise into dance now and start trying to open up to "talk" through my body. For example: the gesture is correct and beautifully done BUT it isn't fascinating to look at. Learning that every move has to say something and is meaningful. Looking into the eyes of people you dance for, it is not easy but you are in front of them because you want it, so! Plus getting into shape, because a full dance sometimes messes up my facial expression, haha, when I really snap for air my smile looks kind of disturbing. Technique has to get out of the way. That means perform only what I am able to dance, hum! No, I do want all those cool choreos (problem!)! I'll see what'll come out of it.
          • oh I thought that over. First I think that this transition between student and bellydancer is not a matter of having stopped to learn. Although one of my teachers says she has arrived, she has her style and doesn't want to develop anywhere. That's fine, she's happy, I couldn't imagine that for myself. Although it's a conclusion. You always learn, even without a teacher, an idol or a role model. I thought about this first like a change of a state of mind. Like you want to go out and do your thing, not someone else's. But the thing is: I thought it is a hell of a difference to go out, wear a pro costume, dance well in front of people, getting compliments and so. But make them understand that they have to pay for it the price you want is quite some difference. To get a website everybody can look at you in this or that glamourous costume (I'm not sure I want everybody to be able to look at me like that!!!). Anybody can call you and get sticky with his/her idea of how he/she would like to see you perform and you having to deal with a lot of ignorance and prejudices.
            To be a dancer embraces quite a lot of things I thought. I mean not the joy of dancing but the consequences of really living it, taking it important, embracing a dancer's identity!

            Is this too negative? I don't mean it to be, it is just a discovery that makes me feel insecure.
  • When can you proudly proclaim you are a bellydancer? I don't feel there is a mile stone you have to pass in order to be a bellydancer. I don't think it matters if you have performed or not, I don't think it matters if you have been paid for your dancing or not. All that matters is that you feel the music and dance. If you bellydance then you are a bellydancer.
    • Unsu...
       
      I agree with your way of thinking Huraiva, its definately how you feel the music and respond that makes you a dancer, bellydance or any other kind, though i can see what Basha means.

      I have only been dancing 6 months, but its become such an addiction that i attend 4 lessons a week, and have begun to dance at home in between too.
      I've only taken part in two recent troupe performances at Hafla's and whilst the people watching see a belly dancer, i know in my heart that i'm just a student.
      I think that years down the line, when i've been doing this and have maybe a solo/solo's under my belt, i will still feel like a student.

      I watch so many beautifull dancers and look up to my dance teacher who regularly performs, as well as running quite a few classes in different venues, yet still attends workshops herself, and relise that we are all just students, we are just at different stages of the path called learning, and when we become talented enough i.e like my teacher, we then go on and share that with others to pass this beautifull form of dance and knowlege on.
      Our learning will never stop, so we will always be students, at the same time we carry on dancing, so we are also bellydancers