Feminism gets a lot of attention in the modern gender equality movement. The concerns of women and women's rights are normal at the forefront of any debate on gender politics or gender equality. Unfortunately, this means that the vast array of men's concerns go unnoticed or ignored. This brief essay should serve to illuminate some of these issues.
The first is violence. Men are forced to register for conscription while women are not. This is a blatant double standard. Conscription should either be widened to include women or abolished completely. Less blatant but no less important is the general perception that violence against men by women is acceptable while the reverse is abhorrent. Rape of men by women has been depicted as humorous (Virgin Mobile advertisements feat. Wyclef Jean, 40 Days and 40 Nights, et cetera), while any attempt to depict rape of women by men as humorous would be shouted down as anti-feminist. Other movies portray hundreds, even thousands, of men being mercilessly killed, while depicting even one woman dying in such a fashion would be called "promoting violence against women". Parenting is another issue where men's rights are woefully lacking. Equality in child-custody cases is almost absent, with the vast majority of single mothers being awarded full custody over single fathers. In other cases pregnancies have been carried to term despite agreements ahead of time that they would not be, subjecting men to unwanted parental responsibilities and/or child support expectations (see Dubay v. Wells). The flipside of this is the fact that men in America have no rights to an unborn child and no say over whether their wife or girlfriend gets an abortion. In addition, many states in America don't allow single fathers to adopt children while single mothers have no such restrictions.
Government legislation is also often blatantly misandronystic when it comes to gender equality. For examples, there are several pieces of legislation which directly address women's issues without addressing the corresponding need of men (Women, Infants, and Children Act; Violence Against Women Act). There are biases in the justice system against men as well, such as higher incarceration rates and longer sentences for men (compared to women) for the same crimes. Statutory rape laws enforced more vehemently in instances where the victim is female and/or the perpetrator is male (e.g. the cases of Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau, Pamela Rogers, and Debra Lafave (Double Standard: The Bias Against Male Victims of Sexual Abuse). The "assumption of female innocence" is yet another example of the double standard that has lead to more male murderers being put to death per capita than female murderers. Until recently there was no accountability for the false accusation of rape either. The rape shield laws likewise make it next to impossible for an alleged rapist to face his accuser, which is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. Men pay higher premiums for auto, health, life and disability insurance, though other forms of discrimination are prohibited and protected against by federal legislation.
In fact, the entirety of society seems to be shifting away from men's concerns to deal with female specific issues. The increasing suicide rate of men in America (73% of suicides are white males) is almost completely ignored while rape crisis centers and abortion clinics receive government funding. Advertisement, awareness and federal funding for breast cancer research outnumbers prostate cancer funding et cetera by a disproportionate amount. The mortality rate for breast cancer is only 30% higher than prostate cancer, but it receives 4 times more funding. Men can be incarcerated for not paying child support while women often don't have to pay it at all. Whole government agencies exist specifically to deal with women's affairs, while no such agency exists to deal with men's affairs. Harder physical entrance criteria for men in many occupations, such as the army, police and fire service, which requires men to be physically stronger than women in these occupations. This leaves men responsible for a greater share of the physical work while receiving no more pay.
Further Reading:
The Legal Subjection of Men, 1908 attack on John Stuart Mill's 1869 The Subjection of Women.
The Fraud of Feminism by Ernest Belfort Bax, 1914.
The Myth of the Monstrous Male and Other Feminist Fallacies; John Gordon
The Myth of Male Power: Why Men Are the Disposable Sex; Warren Farrell
Not Guilty: The Case in Defense of Men; David Thomas
Good Will Toward Men; Jack Kammer
The New Men's Studies: A Selected and Annotated Interdisciplinary Bibliography (2nd Edition); Eugene R. August
A Man's World: How Real Is Male Privilege - And How High Is Its Price?; Ellis Cose
Spreading Misandry: The Teaching of Contempt for Men in Popular Culture; Paul Nathanson and Katherine K. Young
Sex Differences, Modern Biology and the Unisex Fallacy, Yves Christen
The War Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men; Christina Hoff Sommers
If Men Have All the Power How Come Women Make the Rules?; Jack Kammer
Domestic Violence: The 12 Things You Aren't Supposed to Know by Thomas B. James
Ceasefire! : Why Women And Men Must Join Forces To Achieve True Equality; Cathy Young
The Masculine Mystique; Andrew Kimbrell
The first is violence. Men are forced to register for conscription while women are not. This is a blatant double standard. Conscription should either be widened to include women or abolished completely. Less blatant but no less important is the general perception that violence against men by women is acceptable while the reverse is abhorrent. Rape of men by women has been depicted as humorous (Virgin Mobile advertisements feat. Wyclef Jean, 40 Days and 40 Nights, et cetera), while any attempt to depict rape of women by men as humorous would be shouted down as anti-feminist. Other movies portray hundreds, even thousands, of men being mercilessly killed, while depicting even one woman dying in such a fashion would be called "promoting violence against women". Parenting is another issue where men's rights are woefully lacking. Equality in child-custody cases is almost absent, with the vast majority of single mothers being awarded full custody over single fathers. In other cases pregnancies have been carried to term despite agreements ahead of time that they would not be, subjecting men to unwanted parental responsibilities and/or child support expectations (see Dubay v. Wells). The flipside of this is the fact that men in America have no rights to an unborn child and no say over whether their wife or girlfriend gets an abortion. In addition, many states in America don't allow single fathers to adopt children while single mothers have no such restrictions.
Government legislation is also often blatantly misandronystic when it comes to gender equality. For examples, there are several pieces of legislation which directly address women's issues without addressing the corresponding need of men (Women, Infants, and Children Act; Violence Against Women Act). There are biases in the justice system against men as well, such as higher incarceration rates and longer sentences for men (compared to women) for the same crimes. Statutory rape laws enforced more vehemently in instances where the victim is female and/or the perpetrator is male (e.g. the cases of Mary Kay Letourneau and Vili Fualaau, Pamela Rogers, and Debra Lafave (Double Standard: The Bias Against Male Victims of Sexual Abuse). The "assumption of female innocence" is yet another example of the double standard that has lead to more male murderers being put to death per capita than female murderers. Until recently there was no accountability for the false accusation of rape either. The rape shield laws likewise make it next to impossible for an alleged rapist to face his accuser, which is a right guaranteed by the Constitution. Men pay higher premiums for auto, health, life and disability insurance, though other forms of discrimination are prohibited and protected against by federal legislation.
In fact, the entirety of society seems to be shifting away from men's concerns to deal with female specific issues. The increasing suicide rate of men in America (73% of suicides are white males) is almost completely ignored while rape crisis centers and abortion clinics receive government funding. Advertisement, awareness and federal funding for breast cancer research outnumbers prostate cancer funding et cetera by a disproportionate amount. The mortality rate for breast cancer is only 30% higher than prostate cancer, but it receives 4 times more funding. Men can be incarcerated for not paying child support while women often don't have to pay it at all. Whole government agencies exist specifically to deal with women's affairs, while no such agency exists to deal with men's affairs. Harder physical entrance criteria for men in many occupations, such as the army, police and fire service, which requires men to be physically stronger than women in these occupations. This leaves men responsible for a greater share of the physical work while receiving no more pay.
Further Reading:
The Legal Subjection of Men, 1908 attack on John Stuart Mill's 1869 The Subjection of Women.
The Fraud of Feminism by Ernest Belfort Bax, 1914.
The Myth of the Monstrous Male and Other Feminist Fallacies; John Gordon
The Myth of Male Power: Why Men Are the Disposable Sex; Warren Farrell
Not Guilty: The Case in Defense of Men; David Thomas
Good Will Toward Men; Jack Kammer
The New Men's Studies: A Selected and Annotated Interdisciplinary Bibliography (2nd Edition); Eugene R. August
A Man's World: How Real Is Male Privilege - And How High Is Its Price?; Ellis Cose
Spreading Misandry: The Teaching of Contempt for Men in Popular Culture; Paul Nathanson and Katherine K. Young
Sex Differences, Modern Biology and the Unisex Fallacy, Yves Christen
The War Against Boys: How Misguided Feminism Is Harming Our Young Men; Christina Hoff Sommers
If Men Have All the Power How Come Women Make the Rules?; Jack Kammer
Domestic Violence: The 12 Things You Aren't Supposed to Know by Thomas B. James
Ceasefire! : Why Women And Men Must Join Forces To Achieve True Equality; Cathy Young
The Masculine Mystique; Andrew Kimbrell
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 4:36 PMIt all depends on who you talk to. There are women who would counter all of your points with their own valid argumetns.
Then there are ethnic minorities who will throw out the fact that gender is a non-issue, because if you are caucasian you get more priveleges than anyone.
After countless discussions about gender issues the past 4 years in college, I see no end to the debate in sight.
*bangs head on wall*
The bottom line that everyone can agree on (well, everyone in the scientific community) is that men and women ARE biologically different and are predisposed to certain behaviors.
Because of that, rules cannot be the same for both genders because they are not, in fact, equal in every way.
My favorite quote from one of my classes is from the film "Fat City" (which I would recommend to anyone, especially people with school age kids.):
"Fairness does not mean that everyone is treated equally. Fairness means that everyone gets what he or she needs."
Laws and standards are different because people are different.
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 5:32 PM"Equality in child-custody cases is almost absent, with the vast majority of single mothers being awarded full custody over single fathers."
Cuindless, please provide the statistics for this.
I have seen the law books on child custody in three different states and indeed been through the legal system in three different states regarding child custody. It is my understanding that "joint custody" is standard in every state (as it is in the three I know of personally).
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 7:01 PMHere you go: www.childrensjustice.org/stats.htm
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 7:02 PMAnd more: www.deltabravo.net/custody/stats.php
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 7:05 PMAnd more: www.nvo.com/beaulier/fat...rightscenter/ -
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 7:12 PM*Chuckles* I love gender issues. However I am going to bed so I'll get in on this in the morning. :-)
~*VibratingSpoon*~
(Job Thoughts for Slade.)
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 9:34 AMI'll try to address more of your first post here, in addition the child custody issues.
I'm right there with you on the violence. Friends in Germany ALL have to do some sort of service and they ALL can choose military or social service. I find this to be much more equal.
I know men who have been abused and felt they had no where to turn. Honestly the system woefully fails women in abuse situations as well but I recognize it more thoroughly fails men or people in same gender relationships. I believe however the system is slow in keeping up. 4 in ten women are abused in their lives, and it is a reaction to THIS that the laws came about. I don't know the statistic for men, but I feel anyone in an abuse situation should be able to get help. Society in GENERAL (including men) does not make it easier for a man in this situation.
I have no comment on adoption as I know nothing about it.
"Men have no rights to an unborn child or rights about saying whether a woman has an abortion or not."
Because giving men those rights- which HEY men had until last century- would be giving men rights over a woman's body. Nature made us this way, it's not our fault, but women's bodies carry babies and men's do not. I as an individual human being have a right over my body, thank you very much.
As individual human beings we can choose to use birth control or not and take whatever risks our choices take us to. Wanting to control a woman's body when you KNOW where your sperm was implanted and KNEW the possible consequences of that? Be real and word things completely. If you don't want a woman to have control over her very own pregnant body, don't stick it in.
"Equality in child-custody cases is almost absent, with the vast majority of single mothers being awarded full custody over single fathers"
More and more states have "shared parenting" laws in which joint custody is awarded unless there is proof of abuse or neglect. I think the "mother getting custody" tradition is partially because of old standing values in which the woman simply already had more child care duties and it was considered best to continue what the children were used to.
There usually has to be actual proof of abuse or neglect, not just one parent saying it against the other. There certainly have been highly publicized cases in which a woman cried abuse, but the papers don't follow up with the boring parts about whether or not there was PROOF.
Some of the statistics on those sites were lacking in information so as to present a biased point of view. For example:
"# Custodial mothers who receive a support award: 79.6%
# Custodial fathers who receive a support award: 29.9%"
With the implication as to how unfair it is to the father.
It's pretty much counting on people not having real life experience in how support is awarded and calculated. The courts arrive at child support decisions based on a "calculator" (chart). Gender does not factor in, only numbers. The parent who earns more $ pays support to the parent who earns less based on a percentage of the difference in their income. Statistically speaking, more often than not the men earn more. That's ALL the numbers mean. The presentation is misleading.
I am divorced with children. I have lived in three states since being divorced and am intimately aware of family court practices in those three states, in addition to having read law books in two of them.
The statistics don't paint a clear picture of how things are actually currently practiced in the three states I have experienced.
I believe in human rights.
I believe *many* people fighting for the rights of one group end up discriminating against others. People who are ghost hunters always see ghosts. People seeking prejudiced always see it (even when it's not there). There is often a bias by way of passion for a cause that is in effect like putting blinders on.
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Re: Masculism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 1:57 PMAbortion issues as far as prenatal fatherhood rights is a tricky issue, I'll agree completely. As a human, you definitely deserve 100% control over your own body. Its difficult to see a logical policy that would retain women's rights while making a father more involved in the process because, when it comes down to it, you're right. We don't carry the child. The problem I have isn't with the policy in general, it's the case by case abuses that have occurred, such as Dubay vs. Wells. In that case, the Ms. Wells told Mr. Dubay that she was using contraception and was unable to get pregnant anyway. Eventually she did get pregnant and discussed what to do with the child. Ms. Wells said that she would pursue either abortion or adoption, and told Mr. Dubay that she would not be seeking child support. After the child was born, Ms. Wells decided to keep it and sued Mr. Dubay for child support anyway. She was awarded 475$ a month. I don't think she should have been forced to give up her baby. I think we can all agree that would have made the problem worse. All I'm saying is, if they had a previous agreement that he wouldn't have to pay child support, they should have stuck with that. The abuse of these laws was detrimental, and served to reinforce negative stereotypes about both genders and pregnancy. The only thing I can't see is how to solve it. I don't advocate taking away a woman's right to choose. I think that's assinine.
I agree that the old standard of the mother getting full custody and the father can suck it is going away, and that's good. I'm happy to see that situation is changing. I also concede that the websites I've provided so far aren't thorough enough. A lot of my information comes from The Myth of Male Power, which is an excellent book. I've obviously never had to go through these issues, so it's "easy" for me to sit back in my comfy privilege and imagine what it's like when, in reality, I have no clue. I'm glad to hear your experiences because it helps paint a clearer picture.
I agree with you 100% that fighting for the rights of one group can make you blind to the plight of the other group. That's partially why I posted this essay. I wanted to get a dialogue started. Too many masculists and feminists on both sides make it their mission to paint the barrier the color they like instead of tearing the barrier down. -
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Re: Masculism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 4:32 PM*sigh of relief*
I'm SO glad to hear you say the things you've said, Cuindless.
Our system is not equipped to handle the extreme cases. Dubay vs Wells is an extreme case. She was manipulative and lying - he believed her. How many times does a woman have to defend herself from "I'll pull out", "it'll be OK", "It just feels better without a condom." .... Sex involves responsibilities...unless you want to face the consequences (of which there are a variety). Our systems are also not set up to handle the person who lies about having a disease. What it boils down to is- use a condom so you KNOW you're protected (90something% protected) or deal with what ever may come.
I have not read Warren Farrell's Myth of Male Power. I have read ABOUT him and his series of books. This statement
"The weakness of men is the facade of strength: the strength of women is the facade of weakness..."
I wholeheartedly agree with. Unfortunately I fear that's where it ends.
From what I've read- he plays into caricatures of the genders and I don't think an honest look at things will base itself on caricatures. If he bases his claims on the same things as some of those sites...well, I don't think it's based on honest assessment. Example- From review of his book Why Men Earn More from Amazon www.amazon.com/Why-Men-Ea.../ref=sr_1_3
"Why do men earn more than women? Because they deserve to, argues this contrarian challenge to feminist conventional wisdom. Men work longer hours at more dangerous and disagreeable jobs. They more readily accept night shifts, hardship postings to Alaska and entrepreneurial risks. Men get in-demand degrees in engineering, while women get degrees in French literature. Female librarians earn less than garbagemen, not because of discrimination, but because so many applicants compete for the safe, clean, comfortable, convenient, fulfilling jobs women prefer. Indeed, the author insists, statistics show that women and men with equal experience and qualifications, doing the same job, for the same hours, under the same conditions-get paid the same."
Yet what seems to be a more balanced outlook from the NY Times
www.nytimes.com/2006/12/24.../24gap.html
"Indeed, the pay gap between men and women who have similar qualifications and work in the same occupation — which economists say is one of the purest measures of gender equality — has barely budged since 1990."
The article also addresses the issues of choices people make and seems to be fair.
In addition "A whole chapter is devoted to "genetic celebrities"-i.e., beautiful women (exemplified in photos of same) whom men shower with free dinners, gifts and home repairs and who "marry up" into cushy lifestyles paid for by workaholic husbands."
What? Two ADULTS go into a relationship. If he wants an equal partner he can choose an equal partner.
If he wants a trophy wife he might end up with one of these "genetic celebrities". He's not a victim. He's an adult who made a poor choice. He might end up with a gold digger JUST AS she could end up with a no good layabout who won't keep a job. It goes both ways! (believe me!) We live in a culture where some girls are raised "to be pretty"- that's all their worth. AND some girls are taught to try to be bought, essentially. One could turn the same thing around and call it the plight of the self objectified woman who is little more than a socially acceptable prostitute. But THAT would be ridiculous as well. The caricatures are there because these people DO exist- but if Warren Farrell experiences these people as a majority I would simply question his judgment in who he chooses to hang out with.
"Too many masculists and feminists on both sides make it their mission to paint the barrier the color they like instead of tearing the barrier down."
is absolutely true.
In addition, it seem to me that the controversial books that paint one group the victim and promote anger are the books that get the sales.
Not constructive in the least.
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Re: Masculism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 7:38 PM"The weakness of men is the facade of strength: the strength of women is the facade of weakness..."
I wholeheartedly agree with. Unfortunately I fear that's where it ends.
Oh nooooo! I take it back I take it back!
I thought it read:
The weakness of men is the facade of strength: the WEAKNESS of women is the facade of weakness
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 9:48 PMIt is my understanding that children are most often placed with the mother because that is the scenario that is best for the children.
IMO, when it comes to child custody, the important thing is that the children's welfare is considered, not the gender of the parent.
It's like the ment whining about this think that custody cases should be determined on a gender quota basis, not on the facts which present themselves in the best interest of the children.
Have the authors of those books read each and every case individually and weighed the facts and evidence presented? Of course not. They use specific examples which support THEIR point of view, which is totally erroneous to do when supporting an argument. Legal matters are decided on a case-by-cae basis - statistics do not present all of the individual circumstances and are therfore irrelevant in this context.
As for the rest of those single father custody issues......*sigh*.........it's about damn time that men had to fight for some rights. Women have been doing it for centuries. I read that list and see a whole bumch of men who fail to take responsibility for what's in their pants and then whine about it later. Put on a condom or keep it zipped - don't let yourself get carried away in the heat of the moment and then bitch about it later. Sex is the act of procreation. If they don't understand that, they aren't smart enough to be raising kids in the first place. -
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 10:05 PM"Sex is the act of procreation. If they don't understand that, they aren't smart enough to be raising kids in the first place."
And yes, that goes for women, too.
I have strong feelings about unplanned pregnancy, especially when it's recurring.
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 10:10 PMPetra, are you honestly advocating that the solution to gender inequality is to cause inequality in the other direction? I understand that this is a hotbutton issue with a lot of emotion, but saying that it's "about damn time men had to fight for some rights" doesn't seem at all rational or logical to me.
Turning around and saying that these men are whining is just as bad as saying that women are whining about their ill treatment. I think it's a gross injustice that that's considered acceptable in America.
We both agree that when it comes to child custody the needs and welfare of the child should come first, but statistically speaking that doesn't bare out. In the links I've posted there's some excellent analysis of just how unfit some mothers are, and yet the gender bias that "kids should be with their mother" has cost deserving and loving fathers the joy of raising their child.
I'm not saying that women's rights should be taken away. I don't think any sane or rational man would argue that. What I *am* saying is that gender inequality is also harmful to men, and that should be looked at to some extent.
Your last paragraph is blatantly misandronistic. I implore you to examine that thinking. It's tantamount to me calling all single mothers sluts. -
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 10:31 PMStatistically speaking, mothers are the more nurturing parent and that is why custody issues are skewed towards women. Judges know this, which is why they rule the way they do. Fathers should have rights, but especially young children should remain living with their mothers whenever possible.
I grant you that my post sounded anti-man. It was. I hate gender issues. I really hate them. They press a trigger button for me that emotionally links me to my past and I get very upset.
I am also sick to death of hearing BOTH sides of the gender argument, as I previously stated I've been hearing it for 4 years and I do not believe it is resolveable. If the pendulum swings either way too far, one party cries foul. THe bottom line is, NEIGHER gender has much room to speak, as neither gender knows what it's like to live in the other's shoes. A man will never understand what it's like to carry a child. A woman will never fully understand the kinds of cultural pressure that men feel.
Thus, I think the whole gender debate is pointless. Issues should be decided on a case by case basis and if the outcomes of various issues are skewed toward one gender, then so be it. No one said life is fair or that everything has to be equal just because people think it should be.
Also, some slef-disclosure: This topic makes me VERY angry, being a victim of two rapes. I have serious, deep rooted "men issues" and I wholly admit it. I don't trust men at all and I have good reasons for that.
Due to my own life experience I have precious little sympathy for any man who thinks he isn't getting a fair shake. All I can say is, "WELCOME TO MY WORLD."
I will bow out of this discussion any further, as my own personal experience with two highly abusive fathers and two asshole waste-of-oxygen rapists (neither of whom spent a day behind bars) have obviously been largely negative. I am definitely biased and have very little patience for men who cry foul. I am very hard pressed to recall any memories of having a relationship with a man who didn't lie, cheat, rape, hit me or call me names. I quit having relationships many years ago because of these issues.
I am unable to view this thread objectively, due to my personal experiences.
But I do thank you for pointing it out, as it was likely to get worse. At least I have an opportunity to stop now before I start to use swear words to make my points.
*Petra bows out before she starts kicking puppies*
Spoonie, feel free to delete my posts if you see fit. I am obviously speaking from pure emotion and not reason. -
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 10:37 PMPleae forgive the spelling errors. My limbic system has taken over my brain and it can't spell.
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 10:56 PMI'm very sorry to hear that you've had such difficult experiences with terrible men, and it helps me to understand your anger. We could disagree about mothers being more nurturing, statistically speaking, but that wouldn't do any good at this point. Mixing emotion and logic don't make for good conversation. On that we agree.
Please don't think that I'm anti-woman. I know that gender inequality hurts women, and a lot of times it hurts women more than it hurts men. I'm not saying that the pendulum has swung so that now it's a women's world. I think that anyone who advocates that isn't viewing the situation rationally either. What I'm saying is that some of the fixes that society and the government have put in place have *worsened* the problem rather than making it better. -
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 10:59 PMAgreed. You have totally valid points.
I'm sorry that your thread was the site of my emotion-based-she-devil ranting. *blushes*
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 1:39 PMNo apologies are necessary Petra. We all have our hotbutton topics. I'm not sure I could remain rational if we started talking about abandonment and alcoholism.
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:15 AM"The mortality rate for breast cancer is only 30% higher than prostate cancer, but it receives 4 times more funding."
I know it's common to think of breast cancer as a woman's disease, but men can get breast cancer too. However, women cannot get prostate cancer as they do not have prostates. Aside from that, 30% is a lot. I don't see where "only" can be used to describe a mortality rate difference of 30%.
Let's talk survival rates. Prostate cancer has a 99% 5-year survival rate and 91% 10-year survival rate as opposed to an 86% 5-year rate for breast cancer and 76% 10-year rate. This is despite the fact that the cure rate for breast cancer with early detection is 5% higher than the cure rate for prostate cancer. Breast cancer is less likely to be detected early, thus much research for breast cancer has to do with risk factors (prevention) and better methods of early detection. -
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:35 AMI agree with Petra. I don't dare even attempt to write down my thoughts here. I started going into limbic mode just reading Petra's post.
Slade--victim of attempted rape at gunpoint (nearly died), multiple flashings, a peeping tom, a child molester, and consistent street harassment, not to mention multiple sexually and mentally abusive boyfriends.
cuindless, you have some good points (like the draft), but I cannot begin to discuss the issue of men's rights. -
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 10:58 AMInteresting.
Statistically- I wonder how many women on this tribe alone have been abused in some way by a man? I wonder how many of us were helped by the system? How many feel the abusers rights were supported more?
My ex-husband was abusive - physically and emotionally (you don't get the former without the latter in a relationship).
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 1:30 PMWell, when I went to the police about the attempted rape at gunpoint thing, they accused me of lying and tried to use my mental health history against me.
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 2:06 PMI'm not saying that 30% is a small number, but it's a lot smaller than 400%. I think the amount of funding that breast cancer gets is disproportionate. I know men get breast cancer too, but it's about 1.5% of the total. In other words, 98.5% of breast cancer cases are female. As such, the perception of it as a "women's disease" is rather justified. You make good points about survivability, though. The statistics I'm reading do seem to indicate that you're more likely to die if diagnosed with breast cancer than prostate cancer. Still, 4 times seems disproportionate considering the difference in effect.
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Re: Masulism and Gender Equality: Men's Issues
Thu, May 8, 2008 - 2:11 PMThis is an excellent website. It's a blog written by Andrea Rubenstein about gender equality. She approaches it from a feminist perspective, but a lot of what she says points out the harm that gender equality does to men as well.
blog.shrub.com/archives/t...05-11-22_72