Psychology 101 is now in session.

topic posted Wed, July 23, 2008 - 10:01 PM by  Petra
Seems like it might be interesting to talk about Psychology. REAL Psychology- the science an the theories.

From another thread (edited for brevity):
""Finally, once all the measuring, averaging, counting and mathematics has been done, and the sheepskin awarded, what does that have to do with the person sitting on the couch? ...what are you measuring but the anecdotes recorded from some tests? ... what do the numbers tell the psychologist about any specific individual?"

Excellent questions. I think this is a good place to start the discussion.

Let's begin with some research that I think most everyone here is probably familiar with - "Pavlov's Dogs." Actually, this is known as Classical Conditioning. :-)

While typing this, I am referring to the book "Forty Studies that Changed Psychology: Explorations into the History of Psychological Research, 5th Ed." By, Roger R. Hock. This was required reading for my Research Methods and Statistics class.
(to be continued)
posted by:
Petra
Seattle
  • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

    Wed, July 23, 2008 - 10:23 PM
    First, I will explain this research, then I will answer Todd’s questions.

    Classical Conditioning as an example of psychological research and its applications:

    Have you ever walked into a room and smelled a scent that triggered a memory or feeling? If so, it was most likely because the smell triggered an association in your brain between the scent and a past experience you had.
    Why do some people squint and plug their ears when they see someone hold a needle near an inflated balloon? Because they have learned to associate that image with a loud noise.
    These are examples of Conditioning.

    100 years ago in Russia, Ivan Pavlov made a significant contribution to the field of Psychology and it happened by accident. Pavlov was a Nobel prize-winning physiologist, studying the digestive system. Pavlov was experimenting with dogs by introducing various foods to the dog and recording the amount of salivation that occurred in the dogs’ mouths. In order to do this, a tube was surgically inserted into the side of the dogs mouths to redirect a salivary duct to the outside of the mouth and the saliva was then collected in a small container. (Ew. If you’ve seen the old film footage of this, it’s not very pretty.)

    Anyhoo, after a while, Pavlov noticed that the dogs did not just salivate when food was present. They began to salivate when their keepers were near and the dogs merely anticipated food, even when food was not present in the room. Pavlov could not explain how this as happening by using physiology. Pavlov theorized that the dogs were associating being fed with certain other signals, besides the actual food.

    (At this point, I am going to simplify the research because it involves a lot of details that are not relevant to this particular discussion.)

    What Pavlov ended up doing was relocating his new experiment to a soundproof lab so that he could introduce sound to the dogs without the distraction of outside noise. He began to use a ticking metronome when he brought the dogs food.
    Long story made very short, he discovered that he could cause the dogs to salivate simply by using the metronome sound, even when there was no food in the lab.

    This research is significant in that the results have remained unchanged since it was first conducted. This experiment can and has been replicated and produced the same results.

    What was discovered via this research is the psychological concept of Reflexive Behavior. Reflexive behavior means any behavior that is not under your direct control. (Try to salivate as much as you can- RIGHT NOW. See what I mean?)

    (Continued…)
    • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

      Wed, July 23, 2008 - 10:55 PM
      This is the key to applying the idea of conditioning: Any reflexive behavior can be conditioned to occur when paired with a stimulus. (Again, this is simplified- but it’s the gist of the concept.) You can take a neutral stimulus, like a scent, and use it to create a reflexive behavior association and achieve conditioning.

      This can be applied in numerous ways. One simple way is to teach your pet a trick. I have cats. I taught one of my cats to “Sit” using a clicker. When he hears the *click* sound, he knows it means to sit down. I am sure you can all think of other examples.

      How can conditioning be used to help us understand human behavior? Well, let’s look at phobias, for example. In 1920, researcher John Watson decided to design a human experiment expanding on Pavlov’s research. Watson performed a classic experiment on an infant named Albert by pairing a white rat with a loud noise.
      At first, Albert had no fear of the rat. But Albert was upset by the loud noise.
      As Watson paired the presence of the rat with the loud noise, Albert began to fear seeing the rat, in anticipation of the noise. After a while, Albert cried when he saw the rat, even when there was no simultaneous noise. Albert had Transferred his fear of the noise to the fear of the rat by Association. (I am capitalizing the psych terms.)
      Even further, when Albert was presented with a white rabbit, white stuffed animals, and other white, furry objects - he was also afraid of those! His fear had Generalized to all things white and furry.
      (Yes, this study would be considered unethical by today’s standards. This happened back when Psych was still an emerging field of study.)

      So far we have learned how a person can be Conditioned to Associate a Stimulus with a Reflexive Behavior. We have also seen how that Response can be Transferred to other objects and become Generalized. Fun, huh???!!! (Well, I think so!)

      Before I go further, I would like to point out that the two experiments I have written about are part of a very specific field of Psychology called Behaviorism. It is generally considered to be a foundational theory and has been built on extensively, primarily by using Cognitive theories. (You’ve maybe heard of Cognitive-Behavioral therapy?)

      I am going to respond to Todd’s inquiries using Behaviorism as the example. That is NOT to say that is the ONLY possible response. It’s just the example I came up with.

      So, now we can answer Todd’s questions:
      ""Finally, once all the measuring, averaging, counting and mathematics has been done, and the sheepskin awarded, what does that have to do with the person sitting on the couch?”
      Using the example of a phobia, the therapist can carefully help the patient to look beneath their fear to understand the source of the phobia. What is it associated with? When did it begin? What triggers it?
      Once the phobia is better understood, the therapist can work with the patient on treating the problem. Perhaps the therapist will try and condition the patient by pairing the phobia with something the patient finds safe and comforting, to lessen the conditioned response to the original stimulus. Maybe the therapist will (when appropriate) design a program of aversion therapy where the patient is increasingly exposed to the fearful stimulus to the point where it becomes so intense it no longer has the same fearful effect. Or maybe the therapist will use other types of therapeutic techniques (based on other types of research and the therapist’s experience) which will help the patient to overcome their fears.

      “ ...what are you measuring but the anecdotes recorded from some tests?
      I am not sure I understand this question. Would you please explain it a little more?

      “... what do the numbers tell the psychologist about any specific individual?"
      Well, the numbers can be applied to an individual’s situation to compare him/her with the research group and determine where they lie on a behavioral continuum. Using this data, the therapist can determine the extent of the problem and the best treatment approach based on what kinds of treatments have been successful for other patients with the same data.
      (That is also a simplified answer.)

      And now my fingers are tired so I am gonna go surf the net and go to bed. :-)
      • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

        Thu, July 24, 2008 - 2:31 AM
        "Maybe the therapist will (when appropriate) design a program of aversion therapy where the patient is increasingly exposed to the fearful stimulus to the point where it becomes so intense it no longer has the same fearful effect."

        They tried that on my boyfriend – they thought being exposed to dogs on a regular basis would lessen his dog phobia (which stems from being attacked by a dog as a child and being left to lie on the pavement by the owner who made himself scarce). The result is that he now a) uses hate and anger to overcome his phobia, which isn´t very helpful, and b) has a severe aversion against therapists. I believe he kicked a dog´s eye blind during the treatment when it came too close and the therapist wouldn´t pull it back.


        Another burning question that I have about psychotherapy – with the basics of psychology being taught at school, and the layman having at least a general idea of how therapy works, I´d believe it possible for a shrewd patient to second-guess his therapist. Does the susceptibility of a patient to treatment decrease in proportion to his knowledge of the matter? (This is assuming that the patient is unwilling).
        • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

          Thu, July 24, 2008 - 10:37 AM
          Arzo, I've read that aversion therapy is controversial for the very reason you've stated as an example. Not only does it sometimes not work, it can even exacerbate the problem.
          But I do know a therapist who works with patients who have phobias and she has said that under the right circumstances, aversion therapy does work. She is careful about which patients she uses that kind of treatment for.

          To answer your questions:
          "Another burning question that I have about psychotherapy – with the basics of psychology being taught at school, and the layman having at least a general idea of how therapy works, I´d believe it possible for a shrewd patient to second-guess his therapist. Does the susceptibility of a patient to treatment decrease in proportion to his knowledge of the matter? (This is assuming that the patient is unwilling)."

          First things first. :-)
          Psychotherapy is a very specific type of therapy, based on a single set of theoretical principles. Psychotherapy is based solely on Freudian Theory. It is also considered a specialization among therapists and not all therapists are trained in psychotherapeutic technique. Psychotherapy is not appropriate for all types of patients or all types of patient issues. It has been demonstrated to be effective for some patients who suffer from certain kinds of psychological issues.

          I would have to disagree with you when you say the layman has a basic idea of how therapy works and that the basics of psych are taught in school. My personal experience has been that most laypeople I know have no idea how therapy works and have never taken a Psychology class. The most common reaction I get from people when I simply say my degree is in Psychology is, "I hope you're not analyzing me!" and "I'll never need therapy." It seems like there is more trepidation about therapy than understanding.
          Of course, your mileage may vary. My own experience has been the opposite of what you say.

          "I´d believe it possible for a shrewd patient to second-guess his therapist. Does the susceptibility of a patient to treatment decrease in proportion to his knowledge of the matter?"

          I have to answer this question in two parts:

          First, regarding a patient who is truly seeking therapy for help with an issue:
          My own experience has been that it doesn't matter how much a patient knows about therapy. I have even asked therapists about this, as I see a therapist on an as-needed basis when I am struggling with something. I always warn the person that I am studying psychology and very therapy savvy.
          The reason it doesn't really matter is that the therapist is not manipulating the patient during therapy or controlling them. The session is spontaneous and based on what the patient needs to talk about that day. The therapist is trained to gently guide the patient into discovering more about himself during the session, then to help close up any emotional wounds that have been opened before the session before letting the patient leave the office. There is no second-guessing the therapist because often the therapist doesn't know what is coming next any more than the patient does. The difference is, the therapist is trained to handle whatever comes up in the session and hopefully lead it to some resolution.

          Second, the caveat. If a patient is not in therapy for help with a problem, then yes- the patient’s knowledge of psychology and therapy can be a problem. I am referring, specifically, to patients who are being evaluated for legal purposes.
          Let’s use an example of a patient who is being tried for murder. He wants to plead insanity. Obviously, it would be in his best interest to understand how the psychological evaluation will be conducted so that he can achieve the results he wants. This is known as Malingering.
          Depending on the person performing the evaluation, they may or may not be trained to detect malingering. There are very specific techniques that can be used to tell whether a patient is trying to manipulate an evaluation. They are actually really cool techniques. I interviewed a neurophychologist for a paper I wrote earlier this year and he showed me some of the tricks he uses to detect malingering. They are quite ingenious, really.

          But, interestingly, those techniques were not mentioned in my textbook chapters about how to perform assessments. I don’t know if this is because the psychological community doesn’t want the average layman to have easy access to knowledge about malingering and the detection techniques or whether those techniques are not commonly taught to all practitioners. Hopefully I will find out the answer to that in grad school!
          • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

            Thu, July 24, 2008 - 10:44 AM
            To clarify what I said:
            "I would have to disagree with you when you say the layman has a basic idea of how therapy works and that the basics of psych are taught in school."

            The reason for this is because there are numerous therapy techniques.

            Also, I personally think of psychotherapy as being specifically psychoanalytic therapy. It's just how I was taught. Psychotherapy is also used as a generic, catch-all therapy term in many contexts. That is probably how you meant it and I misunderstood. :-)

            Other types are (not limited to): Cognitive-Behavioral, Existential, Psychodynamic, Interpersonal, Art Therapy, Dialectical, Group Therapy, etc.
            • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

              Thu, July 24, 2008 - 11:20 AM
              Okay, that´s the difficulty with the co-opting of scientific terms by the layman public. ;-) When I said "psychotherapy" I thought it to include all or many of the forms of psychological treatment. Sorry to have confused the issue.

              And of course, if the patient is a completely willing participant, the problem of, uh? - malingering probably does not arise. (Although I bet that even the most willing of patients has some corner of privacy that he´d like to protect from all prying eyes...).
              It is when unwilling patients are evaluated that I´d say (just on a hunch) they try to second-guess their inquisitor. One does not need to go so far as to mention murderers – I remember being routinely checked by a school psychologist as a child, and being extra careful what pictures I drew and what my answers were. I also found that I had enough empathy to know what conclusion he´d come to if I answered in a certain way... which in my child´s opinion, rendered the whole point of evaluation moot.

              And though it was just a routine check, I was glad I could "protect" my inner workings from him. Pretty Machiavelli from a second-grader, huh? But even as a child you get that way if threatened... and most people would instinctively regard someone who just might evaluate them wrongly as a threat. This is where the defensive reactions come from when you tell people you´re a psychologist.

              So, the act of observation changes the observed, which Cuindless will probably tell you is a fixed truth in science.
              • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

                Thu, July 24, 2008 - 12:15 PM
                "And though it was just a routine check, I was glad I could "protect" my inner workings from him. Pretty Machiavelli from a second-grader, huh?"

                Oh, yeah! This seems normal to me....I still do this in therapy. There are just some things I don't want to talk about. With ANYONE. ;-)

                "So, the act of observation changes the observed, which Cuindless will probably tell you is a fixed truth in science."

                This is called the Observation Effect. A real challenge in psychological research is to minimize this as much as possible.
                Not to be confused with the Hawthorne Effect, which says that when someone knows they are being observed, they may try harder to succeed.
              • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

                Thu, July 24, 2008 - 2:28 PM
                "... and most people would instinctively regard someone who just might evaluate them wrongly as a threat. This is where the defensive reactions come from when you tell people you´re a psychologist."

                I just want to be sure that everyone is clear on my credentials.
                I am a graduate student in a regionally accredited Clinical Psychology doctoral program. I am NOT a Psychologist (yet) and I am NOT licensed to provide therapy.
                I hold a Bachelor's degree in Applied Psychology from a regionally accredited university.

                It is not my intention to portray myself as anything other than what I am. I hope that I have made that clear enough and I apologize for ANY misunderstandings regarding my education and background.

                And regarding Arzo's statement above, I also think that part of the reason for defensive reactions might be that some people are not in a place, emotionally, where they are ready to face the things that lie within their own mind- whether it's old memories or trauma or what-have-you. The mere hint of suggestion that someone could possibly "see" they are flawed scares them and they feel exposed and vulnerable.
                They Associate psychology with being vulnerable, perhaps.
                Just knowing I have a BA in Psych and am in grad school seems to trigger in some people an assumption that I can somehow see through them into their mind. And for some people, that is a scary feeling.
                I can't, BTW. ;-)
            • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

              Thu, July 24, 2008 - 11:31 AM
              I'm reading here, but haven't had the time to respond. Thank you Petra. Arzo asks some of the questions I would have.

              Mary is funny!

              I use "spectacles, testicles, wallet, watch". If you move your hand across your body as if you were wearing a mans suit vest, is looks like you are crossing yourself.

              LOL.
          • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

            Thu, July 24, 2008 - 12:30 PM
            Typo:
            "The therapist is trained to gently guide the patient into discovering more about himself during the session, then to help close up any emotional wounds that have been opened before the session before letting the patient leave the office. "

            Should be:
            "The therapist is trained to gently guide the patient into discovering more about himself during the session, then to help close up any emotional wounds that have been opened DURING the session before letting the patient leave the office. "
  • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

    Thu, July 24, 2008 - 5:35 AM
    You can also use it yourself for more positive means. Like me, as a child who forgot and lost everything taught myself in my teens to repeat "keys money fags" (this means cigarettes for you americans!) every time I walked out of the door so I didn't leave my keys, wallet or cigarettes behind when I left the house. Walk out the door, reflexively repeat the mantra and check the pockets. These days I don't need it (quit smoking for starters) but I still sometimes reflexively say "keys money fags" when I leave the house or office thoroughly confusing co-workers as I haven't smoked in years.

    I also have had personal success with CBT and autosuggestion things so I like this stuff!
  • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

    Thu, July 24, 2008 - 2:39 PM
    Let me clarify something I said in the other thread about the replicability of psychological techniques and/or testing because I realize I wasn't completely clear. In my field, I work with concrete laws that are almost 100% predictable. Sound behaves a very specific way, and almost every facet of the physics of underwater acoustics has been worked over with a fine tooth comb. When an anomaly occurs, usually it can be rectified pretty quickly because it indicates some piece of data we were missing beforehand.

    To my understanding (and, again, I only have 9 undergraduate credits in Psychology so please correct me if I'm misunderstanding things here) there are so many variables in psychology that replicability and predictability of results drop significantly compared to the "hard" sciences. For example, sound velocity increases with temperature and pressure. That is a hard, fast rule. Unless some other mitigating factor negatively influences sound speed, it will always increase with temperature and pressure. With psychology, as I understand it, there are no hard and fast rules like that. You can say, "X percentage of people who have experienced Y stimulus will develop Z disorder, so there seems to be a statistical correlation," but you can never say, "Y causes Z." Child abuse is a perfect example. If someone was abused as a child, their chances of becoming an abuser later in life increase substantially. That being said, you can't say that violence in youth causes child abuse (correlation does not necessitate causation).

    I wasn't trying to say that psychology isn't scientific, I was saying that I don't personally enjoy psychological research because of those variables.
    • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

      Thu, July 24, 2008 - 2:54 PM
      "there are so many variables in psychology that replicability and predictability of results drop significantly compared to the "hard" sciences."
      I think it depends on the nature of the experiment. For example, successfully replicating Pavlov's study with dogs is probably going to be much easier than replicating a study that involves interviewing college students about their study habits.
      To the extent possible, researchers attempt to control conditions.
      FWIW, the calculations that result from psychological research do take into consideration the number of variables and the possibility for errors.
      The results of the research also discusses the variables, in the interest of full disclosure, and how the data was analyzed to compensate for possible error.

      If anyone is interested in seeing what a published psychology study looks like and how it is formatted, this is a good example: imagesrvr.epnet.com/embimage...68119.pdf

      "That being said, you can't say that violence in youth causes child abuse (correlation does not necessitate causation)."
      Absolutely.

      "I don't personally enjoy psychological research because of those variables."
      That's totally cool. I enjoy Psychology precisely because of the challenge of working with so many unpredictable variables. I love that people are so different that there are plenty of different skills, talents and interests to cover a wide range of careers. :-) How boring would it be if we all liked the same things!?
      • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

        Thu, July 24, 2008 - 11:13 PM
        I'm glad that was more clear. I have a bad tendency to obfuscate my point behind verbage. Reading the study you provided really helped. My knowledge of psychology is really out of date. Still, it seems to follow the standard formate for scientific peer review (abstract, data, conclusion). I didn't realize that psychologists took so much care accounting for the variables in their data. I guess when the variables are so easy to control (i.e. the physics of underwater acoustics) one tends to overlook more difficult variables.

        Some questions I have about psychology:

        First, because my learning is so out of date, I still call it Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD). You said earlier that it is now called Dissociative Identity Disorder. What is the difference? Is MPD merely one form of DID or has MPD grown so much from its original definition that MPD doesn't adequately describe the phenomenon any longer? Also, is the correlation between physical/sexual abuse and MPD/DID still as strong as it was in the 90's?

        Second, the latest addition of the DSM I've read is the DSM IV. Is there a newer version? I've done a google search, but I can't find anything newer.

        Third and finally, the DSM IV came out in 1994, which is when I took my final Psychology class. Looking back, that's 14 years (HOLY CRAP!). What significant advancements have been made in the field of psychology since then? Who are the new movers and shakers of the field today (the last I remember was Erik Erikson's Complete Life Cycle). What innovations have there been? What is the "cutting edge" of psychology?

        I'm really looking forward to your responses. I like to maintain my education in interdisciplinary fields as much as possible.
        • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

          Fri, July 25, 2008 - 12:24 PM
          Wow, Cuin- you ask some challenging questions. I will take a stab at them but I want you to know that I am NOT qualified to diagnose and I have not taken my diagnostic classes yet. So, I am going to use a combination of what my profs have told me, what I’ve read in my textbooks and what I can find on the intertubes to respond to your questions.

          “First, because my learning is so out of date, I still call it Multiple Personality Disorder (MPD). You said earlier that it is now called Dissociative Identity Disorder. What is the difference? Is MPD merely one form of DID or has MPD grown so much from its original definition that MPD doesn't adequately describe the phenomenon any longer?”

          Let’s see….I have had two professors tell my class that MPD is a “Hollywood term” that first appeared in the movie Sybil and was never an actual clinical term. I don’t know if that is actually true or not and I can’t find anything to confirm or refute it. So take that FWIW, I guess.

          As far as there being a difference, there isn’t any. They are just different terms for the same condition.

          “Also, is the correlation between physical/sexual abuse and MPD/DID still as strong as it was in the 90's?”

          From what I learned in classes and a quick web/psych database search just now, yes- it would seem so. I can check my Abnormal Psych. textbook at home this weekend if you want more info.

          “Second, the latest addition of the DSM I've read is the DSM IV. Is there a newer version? I've done a google search, but I can't find anything newer.”

          This I know. The DSM-V is in the process of being updated/written/compiled as I write this. I first heard that the DSM was being update about a year & a half ago. The estimated publication date is May 2012.
          IMO, this is a long time coming (too long). They take all of the research that has been conducted since the last publication and review it. Then they use that information to redefine diagnostic criteria as needed.
          I found this official site (not very informative, though): www.psych.org/dsmv.asp
          And here is the free online version of the DSM-V Research Agenda book: www.appi.org/book.cfm

          “Third and finally, the DSM IV came out in 1994, which is when I took my final Psychology class. Looking back, that's 14 years (HOLY CRAP!). What significant advancements have been made in the field of psychology since then?” and “What innovations have there been?”

          The biggest thing I have been told by profs and also by psychologists I have interviewed for assignments is the advances being made in the field of neuropsychology that is making huge strides tying together nature and nurture. Newer technologies have allowed researchers to “watch” the brain without invasive surgery and even to longitudinal studies to follow participants and observe their brain development via regularly schedules scans and assessments.
          This is very exciting for me, as I am particularly interested in the relationship between neurochemical development and Attachment Theory.

          But this also depends on your field of study. The neuropsychology stuff is my favorite thing, but if you asked someone in a different field of psych, like Organizational Psychology, they will give you a totally different response about what the biggest advances have been.
          I am an APA member (American Psychological Association) and have noticed the past two years that when I receive my peer-reviewed journals each month, there are more and more published studies about Organizational Leadership. This also seems to be true for Psych. conferences- more lectures about Org. Leadership. To me, that stuff is BO-RING and I don’t read much of it, so I can’t even speak about it.

          Some people seem to think the new hotness is EMDR therapy (Eye Movement Desentitization & Reprocessing). I don’t agree. But like I said before, the answer to your question will depend on who you ask and what their interests in the field are.
          EMDR info: www.sciam.com/article.cfm

          I would invite you to check out the 2008 APA Convention presentation lineup. It gives a good idea of the types of current areas of study being highlighted: www.apa.org/convention08...gramming.html


          “Who are the new movers and shakers of the field today (the last I remember was Erik Erikson's Complete Life Cycle).”

          Dr. Phil (ROFLMAO)
          Well, Francine Shapiro is getting a lot of attention lately as the “creator” of EMDR.
          And I have read a lot about Elizabeth Loftus’ work in the field of memory. She is at UC Irvine now, I think. Her work is fairly controversial but sometimes I think controversy is good because it makes people THINK.

          “What is the "cutting edge" of psychology?”
          My opinion: Neuropsychology. I think it’s the path of the future of Psychology. It ties medical science directly into psychology, which lends credibility to the field and gives us more precise data to study. In fact, I feel this way so strongly that I selected my undergrad university specifically because they offered a Neuropsychology course. A big part of my choice for grad school was for the same reason- I chose the only school in my area that offers both Neuropsycholgy and Neuropsychological Assessment courses. I personally feel that if an emerging Psychologist doesn’t have a strong working knowledge of neurochemistry and neuropsychology going forward in this field, they are going to find themselves left behind. That’s just my personal feeling.

          A couple of other really intriguing areas are Social Psychology and Adolescent Psychology. The reason for this is the internet! Suddenly, in less than a decade, the world is at our fingertips for the first time. This is changing how we interact and communicate. It’s affecting our culture (Western culture) and it’s also affecting how the current generation of young people are learning about their environment. Psychology is running to catch up! I think that the online world is going to redefine the social fabric of Western culture in coming years and childhood social development models are going to need to be updated!
  • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

    Fri, July 25, 2008 - 9:50 AM
    hee hee – this thread appears to be more in the area of psychology I don't find interesting ;P

    I think, to pinpoint my particular interests, I'm interested in human behavior and development. What factors created X person you see today? What events led to this feeling, this response, this connection (or disconnection)… Personality, behavior, tendencies, etc.

    I love the theoretical psychology, the history of psychology, and I'm not above research and studies in psychology. I hate disorders. I don't give a crap about how to recognize a disorder, how to treat a disorder… I may be interested in the underlying causes of the disorder, and there are a couple of disorders I wouldn't mind learning "how to live with someone who has…"

    Psychology totally loses me when all the talk is about a disorder. I'd rather learn more about the non-disordered. (or, let's be honest, the less-disordered)
    • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

      Fri, July 25, 2008 - 1:20 PM
      "hee hee – this thread appears to be more in the area of psychology I don't find interesting ;P"

      That's cool. I appreciate the opportunity to explain the field a bit and answer people's questions about psychology as a field of study.

      I think I need to learn to be less defensive when people misunderstand psychology and more patient and willing to take a moment to listen to their concerns and then respond. My getting defensive certainly doesn't help me to get my point across any better. ;-)

      Like many things, psychology is plagued with myths and misunderstanding, which is hardly surprising considering what a vast field it is. Also like many things, I believe that education is the key to understanding it. :-) If I can spread correct information, a few people at a time, I hope it will help stop some of the rumors and myths about my field.
      • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

        Sat, July 26, 2008 - 10:40 AM
        Question from the (couch) layperson:

        I've again been (very reluctantly) sent into therapy. Told this guy--if I had to guess, I'd say he is a cognitive psychologist--that my childhood is strictly out of bounds because it's been talked to death, makes me feel like shit and absolutely...helps...nothing.

        Anyway, I notice two things about this guy: 1) *Damn*, but he talks a lot. I can barely get a word in edgewise and 2) he pisses me off by telling me what I can't do...as in future accomplishments, what I would like to do. I mean, it's not like I'm saying I want to be a cowgirl when I grow up--just that I would like to find a way to write for a living, even if it is strictly commercial.

        Dude is relentlessly discouraging me from this venue...and I don't do well with people telling me what I *can't* do.

        Sooo...just to give this guy (I won't say asshole...yet) some credit, is that like some reverse psychology shit?
        • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

          Sat, July 26, 2008 - 3:45 PM
          Sounds to me like a bad match. Personally, I would find another therapist. Just based on what you wrote, it sounds like it may simply not be a good fit.
          If that is not an option, I would tell him exactly what you told us. That you would like to do more talking and that you don't appreciate him trying to discourage your ambitions. If you had wanted a career coach, you would have gone to one.
          You might ask him to give you specific reasons why he thinks you shouldn't pursue writing. Maybe it's as simple as him thinking that you should get some personal issues straightened out before pursuing the writing jobs. That would make sense to me, but perhaps he is not being clear.
          He cannot change what he is not aware of. So tell him. The worst thing that will happen is he might disagree or suggest you see someone else.

          I have a friend who asks me once in a while about her therapist and I don't want to interfere but I always tell her this:
          Therapy is about YOU. Therapy is not about the therapist or what they think you should do with your life. You are the expert on you. Their job is to gently guide or coach you into discovering the healthiest ways to express yourself.
          From what I have been told, therapists are rarely ever supposed to tell you what you should or should not do. They can give you suggestions but never tell you what to do- unless they think you are going to harm yourself or another person. Then they legally have to tell you what to do in some cases (like put you in a psych ward if you say you are going to kill yourself).

          I hope that helps!!
  • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

    Tue, July 29, 2008 - 9:00 PM
    Hmmmmm...

    I think there are some grains of truth in Todd's earlier posts, although I don't agree with them exactly. My angle is a little different. So, just for the sake of serving as foil character to Petra...

    What kind of experiments have been performed that would permit a therapist to predict (with some degree of certainty) when a patient will engage in projection, or undoing?
    • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

      Tue, July 29, 2008 - 11:54 PM
      I don't know of any that can predict such things.
      Projection and Undoing are components of Freud's theory of Ego Defense Mechanisms. They are reactions to internal psychological conflict . By their very nature, because they are internal reactions to experiences, they are really not predictable in a quantitative sense or condusive to being studied in an experimental setting.

      Random (but accurate) definitions from a quick & dirty web search:
      Projection is a defense mechanism in which one attributes one’s own unacceptable or unwanted thoughts or/and emotions to others.
      (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psyc...rojection)
      Undoing is the attempt to take back behavior or thoughts that are unacceptable. An example of undoing would be excessively praising someone after having insulted them. (www.planetpsych.com/zPsychol...isms.htm)
      • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

        Wed, July 30, 2008 - 10:54 AM
        > they are really not predictable in a quantitative sense or
        > conducive to being studied in an experimental setting.

        Sure. But if Freud was a Scientist, why are central tenets of his theories presented in a framework which is not falsifiable?

        And additionally, why would scientists (Psychologists) of today continue to discuss or utilize them in any way, other than in a historical context? Why are Freud's theories different from Phrenology in this respect?

        I think the definitions provided are missing an important piece. Don't the behaviors need to be unconscious? It seems to me that the definition of "undoing" provided could be confused with a simple apology.
        • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

          Wed, July 30, 2008 - 12:11 PM
          The way I read the definition given of "undoing" there's no way it can be seen as an apology. And the difference between the two things is really reasonability, and who takes the action.

          Example: Bill pushes Jill into a tree. Jill says, "hey, dick, don't push people into trees." Bill says, "It's good that you reprimand me for doing that." – That's undoing.

          Example 2: Bill pushes Jill into a tree. Jill says, "hey, dick, don't push people into trees." Bill says, "I'm sorry, I shouldn't have pushed you into a tree." – that's an apology.
          • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

            Wed, July 30, 2008 - 12:39 PM
            My read on "undoing" is, literally, attempting to undo bad thoughts or deeds through opposing or contrary actions. The example given in my ages old, out of date and extremely basic psychology textbook is that of a person thinking about doing violence to someone so instead buys them a gift to get rid of the bad thoughts.

            Another, this from my again out of date textbook on "The Psychology of Criminology" involves the use of undoing in criminal profiling. Serial killers (of the nearly mythical Lecterian type) have been known to attempt to symbolically "undo" their crimes by painting pictures of the victim, visiting their grave with flowers or giving gifts to the family of the deceased.

            The difference is in intent, which is an extremely hard thing to guage correctly. The intent of an apology is to assuage the pain of the other person. The intent of undoing is a psychological defense mechanism meant to assuage your OWN guilt and pain.
            • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

              Wed, July 30, 2008 - 7:26 PM
              "The intent of undoing is a psychological defense mechanism meant to assuage your OWN guilt and pain. "

              Yes- I think Cuin nailed it. Intent is the difference.

              Defense mechasnisms are about YOU - not about the other person.
          • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

            Wed, July 30, 2008 - 6:42 PM
            "Example: Bill pushes Jill into a tree. Jill says, "hey, dick, don't push people into trees." Bill says, "It's good that you reprimand me for doing that." – That's undoing. "

            I'm not sure that I agree with this one......I would say it's more like Bil pushing Jill into a tree then later on buying her an ice cream cone. In his unconscious mind the ice cream cancels out the bad deed.
            • Re: Psychology 101 is now in session.

              Thu, July 31, 2008 - 3:06 AM
              > it's more like Bill pushing Jill into a tree
              > then later on buying her an ice cream cone

              Yep.

              And if Jill mentions that whole tree-pushing thing that happened, Bill will either deny that it really happened, frame it as an accident, or interrupt her complaint to let her know he's buying her *another* ice cream cone.