Well, I've done it again--I've alienated somebody by "ignoring" them. I forgot to answer an email...I mean I *literally* forgot. I've never had a great memory and years of (necessary) prescription drugs have robbed me of the rest of it. I guess what she's really angry about is that it didn't occur to me to write her, i.e. I wasn't thinking about her. I knew she was freezing me out and I had no idea why. Because she is the thoughtful, always-remembers-birthdays kind of person--i.e. nice--she assumed that, 1) I was freezing *her* out, or worse, 2) I knew why she was upset and just didn't give a shit.

And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why I can't keep a female friend.

I'll admit it--I'm a thoughtless, self-absorbed shit. I live in my head; my feet barely touch terra firma. As such, I spend more time with my characters than I do with real people, and, quite frankly, many days that is my preference. My INFP is off the charts--I have NO ESTJ, literally. I am a dyed-in-the-wool introvert; I can hang out completely by myself for days at a time and be just fine.

But here's why I piss people (i.e. women) off--when you meet me, I scream extrovert. While I'm not fond of crowds, I'm not afraid of them...nor am I afraid to meet anybody. Except for the time I met Elie Wiesel, I've never been star-struck or even shy. I can talk to people from all walks of life and can almost always find a common thread. I am the least discreet person I know--I'm notorious for that--I say exactly what I feel, I'm loud and I laugh all day long. I come off as friendly as a spoiled mutt. I can *make* friends in a snap, but then I just...well, let me put it this way: it's not that I don't like people, I just tend not to seek them out.

And then I pay.

I can't tell you how many times this has happened to me. If only I could just droop around like a depressed emo and hide in a corner writing poetry, then nobody would get mad at me. But because I dive head-first into any conversation, divulge all of my non-existent secrets, I guess I establish a false sense of intimacy.

And the sad thing is, 90% of the time, I like the person I'm talking to; 40-50% of the time, I wouldn't mind hooking up with them. 25% of the time, I'm psyched to find someone I'd really like to hang out with. But either I lose their email address, or forget to email them and, quite frankly, it never occurs to me to call anybody...I just don't give phone.

Does this happen to anybody else or am I--once again--an anomaly?
posted by:
Fioletta
offline Fioletta
Virginia
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  • Fiol...
    Fioletta
    offline 79

    Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

    Thu, May 1, 2008 - 12:23 PM
    In fact, now that I think about it, most days I prefer talking to you guys on Tribe. It actually feels very similar to talking to my characters, an endless internal dialogue...and the internet *does* create a false sense of intimacy, which is perfect for me.

    Of course, it's not quite the same when I take you to dinner on my laptop in a wireless restaurant (especially since I always have to pick up the tab).
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  • Asharah
    Asharah
    offline 605

    Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

    Thu, May 1, 2008 - 12:29 PM
    I hear you loud and clear. I'm an INTP. BIG TIME. Like, I have to analyze every damn thing. Being a female NT is hard, because there aren't a lot of other female NTs, and frankly I didn't used to have a lot of female friends at all. I have a really hard time (generally speaking) with Sensing personality types with a Feeling preference. I just see the world so differently than them! And most people are Sensors, and most females are Feelers. So... yeah... kinda screwed there! :D

    I have had my share of social mishaps - forgetting birthdays, not returning e-mails, not returning phone calls (OMG that's the worst - I hate the phone!), being snarky where it's not appreciated, correcting others with it might not have been appropriate, not realizing that I said something hurtful, not realizing that I needed to show concern or sympathy... you name it.

    You're not a freak or an anomaly. Just rare. There are others out there like you! It's true.

    I feel like if people can't deal with you and your personality, maybe that friendship wasn't meant to be something really deep. I know that's difficult for a Feeler, as Feelers (generally) like to make deep connections with other humans, and most other humans aren't interested in making those same connections. I know there are other NFs out there (some of my good friends and my husband, even, are NFs!), but it's hard to find the fellow introverted ones.

    I'm not sure how helpful this is, but I guess what I'm trying to say is... You're not alone!
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  • slade
    slade
    online 41

    Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

    Thu, May 1, 2008 - 12:30 PM
    (blink) You met Elie Wiesel? How cool is that!

    I think you are confusing them because if you initially come off as extravert, when you switch into introvert mode, they feel "dumped", as you said.

    Similar things have happened to me all my life. My quietness has been viewed as sullenness, snobbery, thinking "I'm all that," etc. more times than I can count. I have frequently been taken to task because of the expression on my face when I was just walking around at work, looking for a folder, thinking random things. And lots of people love to personalize it; I must have that expression (I think "WHAT expression?") on my face because I am pissed off specifically at them. I have worked with folks who, if I didn't smile and speak **every single time** they passed my desk or I passed theirs, then they interpreted that as me "snobbing them off." It's ridiculous.

    slade
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  • Pois...
    Poisoned
    online 163

    Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

    Thu, May 1, 2008 - 12:51 PM
    Cuin and I were just talking about this in the car today. We we're wondering at what point did we decide to alienate all of our friends? I know what I did! I mixed business with friendship and that just made roadkill of most of my friendships. I wanted to grow as a dancer and I couldn't bring anybody with me. I tried and that destroyed the balance.

    I'm better at keeping low maintenence friends these days since my entire week is usually packed, leaving only about one day per week where I have the option of being social. I have a couple of very close friends who come over every week, drink some wine and talk philosophy on my comfy sofas. That's really all I need at this point in my hectic little life. Three years from now I should have a lot more free time to devote to more fringe friends but for right now... I need low maintenence close friends or polite aquaintences who don't get bent out of shape if they only see me once in a while.

    Fio... all women are lunatics. My Grand-Mother-In-Law still thinks that I'm ashamed of her family because I kept my own surname when I got married. *Tsk-Tsk* Shame on me. Shame on you. :-P

    ~*Spoon*~
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    • Lave...
      Lavender Dawn
      offline 40

      Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

      Thu, May 1, 2008 - 1:09 PM
      I'm capital E and it's not piece of cake either. I generaly drown out anyone who's not an E too unless I'm being super conscious of it and who can keep up that for long? I sincerely like people, can empathise deeply but I have problems keepng ME toned down enough to let others shine in their own way. I am working on it and I'm not really an arrogant pushy bitch but I know I come off that way, especially when I really get ethusistic about something. I sometimes get exasperated when I realize that someone is upset with me because they didn't speak up. I know I have a tendency to be a steanroller so I make sure I invite imput al the time while co planning anything. Later I get the message ( usually third hand) that someone wanted to do something different but was 'afraid' to say anything. WTF? I'm not so terrifying am I? I ask( many times)during planning," So does anyone else have any ideas? " when I get silence, I even will ask again, " Ok, so we're all together on this?" More silence, ok so how the heck can they be upset? I just don't get it. I've tried passing a talking stick, not saying anything myself for a fixed amount of time, and asking each person individually for imput. If ya don't speak up then it's gonna be my way and what else can I do? People are weird.

      Lav
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      • Sakari
        Sakari
        online 82

        Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

        Fri, May 2, 2008 - 11:58 AM
        >I sometimes get exasperated when I realize that someone is upset with me because they didn't speak up. I know I have a tendency to be a steanroller so I make sure I invite imput al the time while co planning anything. Later I get the message ( usually third hand) that someone wanted to do something different but was 'afraid' to say anything. WTF? I'm not so terrifying am I? I ask( many times)during planning," So does anyone else have any ideas? " when I get silence, I even will ask again, " Ok, so we're all together on this?" More silence, ok so how the heck can they be upset?<

        Oh, god, sing it, sister! If I had a dollar for every time I've heard "I'm not afraid of you *now*, but when we met I was really intimidated" I'd be a happy woman......I try to keep whatever it is about myself that's "intimidating" in check--well, I used to, anyway. Now I realize that the people who usually feel steamrolled are passive aggressive types who simply can't handle directness, and I do what you do, Lavendar Dawn: I give them multiple opportunities to speak up, and then I move forward. And I don't feel badly about it anymore, either! I'm too old to waste my time fretting about it anymore.....

        That being said, I'm *right* on the borderline of Extrovert/Introvert, in every test. I must have alone time, and I must have people time, and the balance is delicate...
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  • magd...
    magdalena
    offline 81

    Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

    Thu, May 1, 2008 - 2:40 PM
    I'm an INFJ, and I guess the F and the J make me give people the parameters of how introversion affects my friendships.

    As in, "I hibernate in the winter. I will not be seeing you until March."

    Or: "Look, I don't talk on the phone. Read my blog; that's what it's there for."
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    • kali...
      kali_licious
      offline 24

      Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

      Thu, May 1, 2008 - 11:27 PM
      "I'm an INFJ, and I guess the F and the J make me give people the parameters of how introversion affects my friendships.

      As in, "I hibernate in the winter. I will not be seeing you until March."

      Or: "Look, I don't talk on the phone. Read my blog; that's what it's there for."

      *dingdingding* That's it exactly. I'm another INFJ.:)
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      • Otta...
        Ottavina
        offline 21

        Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

        Fri, May 2, 2008 - 6:13 AM
        Yes, I'm an introvert, but more by means of protection, I think. I tend to give my listener or new person all I have regarding attention and energy, and then when I go home, I'm totally drained. I like to socialize, but only a little. It's why it kills me to have a housemate. When I'm in a situation where I have to deal with one, I've gotten a little better at the balance of helping and listening with my own needs, but I know that, because of that, I'm viewed as a bitch by some.

        Regarding the Myers-Briggs categorization: I'm never sure what to get from it, because every time I take the test, I'm something else. Like an INFJ once, to an INTP...occasionally an E will sneak in there.

        Lastly, I'm all for winter hibernation. Why we, as mostly hairless mammals, want to run around and be productive in the snow is a concept beyond my comprehension.
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      • Sama...
        Samantha
        offline 120

        Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

        Tue, May 6, 2008 - 7:38 AM
        Yay for INFJs!

        I recently tried to explain to the people above me in the VERY busy, frenetic restaurant where I work how difficult it is for me to do this for a living. I think I do a damn good job at it but it it so outside my nature & being around so many loud people who all want something from me exhausts me. They totally didn't get it. I volunteer to do things that will have me alone in the kitchen for hours, or in the storeroom organizing things because I NEED to be alone.
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        • magd...
          magdalena
          offline 81

          Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

          Tue, May 6, 2008 - 8:32 AM
          "I volunteer to do things that will have me alone in the kitchen for hours, or in the storeroom organizing things because I NEED to be alone."

          I hear that, Samantha. I recently took a book out of the library, _Careers for Introverts_, and two careers listed are ones I'm already pursuing--writer and editor--and even editing is too people-oriented for me. If my writing career doesn't pick up soon I'm thinking of becoming a mail carrier or a nighttime security guard!
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    • slade
      slade
      online 41

      Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

      Fri, May 2, 2008 - 10:26 AM
      Magdalena, I hate phones too! Doesn't it make you nuts when people keep "pushing" the phone thing?
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      • Taran
        Taran
        offline 41

        Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

        Fri, May 2, 2008 - 9:44 PM
        See... I don't mind GETTING phone calls. Heck, I can yack for hours if you call me. If you want me to call you... um, well. The first time? Only if I REALLY am amazed by you. Subsequent times, it gets a little easier. Back in highschool (before I figured out you could socialize over the phone), one of my friends always thought i was pissed off at her when we talked on the phone, because I was brief and to the point.

        It makes me kinda sad, because there's lots of people who call me up once in a blue moon, and I'm SO happy to hear from them... but then I never end up calling them back, and eventually they give up. Can't really blame them. It sucks to be the one always reaching out (I have a few friends where I do this because they're just that darn awesome when I do manage to track them down).

        My husband (who's an ex-extrovert, if that's possible) strikes me as a little odd... he never calls anyone, then gets bitter when they don't call him.

        I've always considered myself an introvert (INFP for the win) but I really do like being around people, especially as I get better at socializing ;). I'm getting quite good at RESPONDING to overtures... it's jut making them that I suck at. No, not exactly suck at... am terrified of. It usually takes me a very long time to get really close to people (though there have been a few exceptions to this). We moved eight months ago and every once in a while I feel so LONELY here... I've got acquaintances, but no one (except my honey, of course) that I'm totally at ease with.
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  • Eugenia
    Eugenia
    offline 86

    Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

    Sat, May 3, 2008 - 11:02 AM
    Oh, I know exactly where you're coming from...I am an ENTP, but I'm an only child, and that seems to have put me on the cusp of E and I. It's not that I don't care about my friends, I am just TERRIBLE at keeping in touch with people, because when it comes down to it, I forget! And because I'm such a P, I'd rather spend time alone doing what I want than having to plan anything with anyone else.

    I've often thought (semi-jokingly) about making my friends sign a waiver that reads: "Even though Eugenia might disappear for months at a time, I know that she still loves me and I agree to not give her crap about it when she comes back, or send her emails that ask her if we're still friends, or decide that she hates me." It'd make things a lot easier if people knew that at the outset!
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  • step...
    stephanie
    offline 60

    Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

    Sat, May 3, 2008 - 12:02 PM
    INFJ here - I have gotten to the point of sending out mass messages (with an apology) to my friends because I do forget to email all the time and I am so freakin busy (school, work, family, etc) - maybe a poor excuse but I don't have a lot of free time - well, except for you guys ;-). We screen every call - thank goodness for caller ID and before that our answering machines! I really do enjoy finding people to hang out with - I just don't do the reaching out much because I feel I will seem stalker-ish. I truly appreciate my alone time, my space, and unless invited to do something else first, I have a hard time just calling or emailing people with a "let's get together" because I think everyone is like me. And a couple times I have done this, I have gotten burned (most recently I completely mis-read someone and their intentions because I assume most people are nice - she has said and done some truly horrible things about/to me and others, is completely toxic, so I revert to my shell and basically say f#ck the world). I must also give the "back off" vibe too - or maybe it is just others misreading me because I am such an introvert. Years ago, one day when walking down the hall behind some co-workers, I heard one of them call me a "bitch" because I was too good to talk to them or hang out with them. I was surprised - I'm nice enough, say hello, ask how they are, etc. but I don't usually try to make work "friends" and they worked in another division - why would they want to hang out with me? I am horribly shy around meeting celebrities/well-known individuals. I feel completely socially inept and am afraid of offending them by smiling or doing something equally shocking. Regular people, I am fine and that is how I try to treat these situations but there are times when I feel like such a doofus... Funny thing is a couple weeks ago I met the governor and was fine with it, not nervous at all - go figure...

    Hooray for us introverts - at least we can understand where each other are coming from!
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  • Khalida
    Khalida
    offline 214

    Re: Calling all introverts (probably all of us)

    Tue, May 20, 2008 - 8:30 AM
    Happy to not be alone in this. ISFP here.
    I kinda like being social at events but then I need LOTS of downtime afterwards. Have a few dance friends I've known for years that tolerate my flakeyness, but even though I like their company I still have to really force myself to accept a hang-out invitation every now and then. I tend to not pick up the phone for anyone (have it on silent most of the time) and prefer to text or email instead. I try to avoid friends getting upset by telling them on beforehand that it's not personal, just how I roll.
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