Help me to understand this...How can one be a true submissive with a dominant side always present?
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SF Bay Area
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Re: BeSwitched?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 10:50 AMhelp me out and I'll help you...
what's a "true" submissive? -
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Unsu...
Re: BeSwitched?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 11:45 AMhee hee ...this is going to be good...I can tell!
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Re: BeSwitched?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 11:57 AMI can only speak for myself here, but my switching is for scening only. I do not switch between bieing dominant or submissive. I am not sure that is even truly possible. So, when i say i am a switch, it has zero to do with the fact that in my heart, i am a service submissive.
Lots of folks tend to lump dominant and top together just as they do sub and bottom. I cannot speak for others, but they are not synonymous in my mind.
des
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Unsu...
Re: BeSwitched?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 12:10 PMWhen I am the Top/Domme, I am thoroughly in charge of guiding and executing the scene, when I am the bottom/submissive, I give my power over utterly. I am a better Top/Dominant for my time as a submissive/bottom and vice versa.
While I do have a predominant Dominant side I do enjoy bottoming to a partner that I am involved with intimately. If I trust may partner, (and why else would I be with him if I didn't), I lose no face in doing my bottom time. It does not take from my reputation as a strong Top/Dominant by bottoming once in awhile. I put my whole heart into whatever role I am in.
I have no problem with my partner bottoming to me and then me bottoming to him later. It takes nothing from my perception of his strength as a Dominant. I also have no problem with a partner that does not want to bottom to me but is fine with and enjoys watching me top others only to give my power over to him later. It feels great in fact.
"Help me to understand this...How can one be a true submissive with a dominant side always present?" Easy...for someone I care about...I set that part of me aside and enjoy the other role.
Laura
However, that is just MY experience and my viewpoint, everyone has their idea of what a Dominant/Top bottom/submissive is. There ARE people out there that want a Dominant through and through, and to them it would change their view of you and your power as a Dominant should you mention switching.
We are all like snowflakes...all different ...all special. -
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Re: BeSwitched?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:51 PM"We are all like snowflakes..." Love that image, TE
There are people who can top or even dominate, and do it well, while preferring to bottom or submit. And vice versa.
It is my own theory that belongs to me that is mine (**cough, cough**a-hem, ahem**) that even if you hate topping and don't think you could dominate a cell-phone, you should think about giving it a TRY, if only because it will make you a better bottom/sub when you know what its like to be the one holding the leash/cane/belt/hairbrush/etc.
Now, I do agree with teamnoir when he says that it isnt NECESSARY to play one role to become highly skilled in the role of its antagonist--his example is vaginal fisting, not having a vagina himself he is still capable of learning to perform the activity with great sex--but if you CAN get some time in your partner's shoes... if TN could have a vagina for a day, for example... seems like a good idea to me.
And furthermore... someone who can't imagine trying something new, learning something new, growing in a new way, even just as an experiment... not someone I'm terribly driven to play with. -
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Re: BeSwitched?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 7:39 PMI have found for myself that there are three levels of interaction in the BSDM arena.
The first level I would call 'Casual BDSM' - it's when you just meet someone at a party and strike up a conversation and decide to do a scene together. In that situation, I can be either the Top or the bottom.
The second level I would call 'Serious BDSM' - it's after you've gotten to know someone and built up a relationship with them. You know what each of you like, maybe know what buttons to push to get the best reaction and you negotiate a scene together. The second level is much more intense and satisfying than the 'Casual BDSM' level. In the second situation, I can still be either the Top or the bottom.
The third level I would call 'Domination/submission'. There is a very high degree of trust and intimacy required to reach this level because all the barriers are down between the two participants. The nearest 'vanilla' experience I can equate it to is love. For me, I have only experienced this level from the viewpoint of submission - and I have only experienced this third level with a few women.
Hope this helps.
Rick
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Re: BeSwitched?
Thu, December 21, 2006 - 7:55 PM<< When I am the Top/Domme, I am thoroughly in charge of guiding and executing the scene, when I am the bottom/submissive, I give my power over utterly. I am a better Top/Dominant for my time as a submissive/bottom and vice versa.
While I do have a predominant Dominant side I do enjoy bottoming to a partner that I am involved with intimately.
There ARE people out there that want a Dominant through and through, and to them it would change their view of you and your power as a Dominant should you mention switching.>>
Laura
Now thats interesting. Would you say, that your partner is dominant as well and allows you that down time to be submissive with him?
And I agree that there are lots of DOMs out there that do view others differently when they mention the word of 'switching' . I recently went to a private play party in San Ramon and the topic of the night was all about another DOM who loss lots of creditability with his peers when he bared his soul to wanting to switch.
After reading everybody's take on this, it would appear that if one found another whom you could trust; then the decision would be much easiler to make in the privacy of your own play den. -
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Re: BeSwitched?
Thu, December 21, 2006 - 10:07 PM<Would you say, that your partner is dominant as well and allows you that down time to be submissive with him? >
Hmmmm, now those are fighting words! :-)
As another switch ... no one "allows" me time to bottom / surrender.
I am careful under what circumstances i bottom, and who I bottom to.
If anything, I need to be determine if I am in the head space to bottom.
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Re: BeSwitched?
Mon, December 4, 2006 - 2:53 PMAND... how much more exciting a power exhange when the one submitting is strong and powerful! -
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Re: BeSwitched?
Tue, December 5, 2006 - 2:37 PMi agree the best times i have ever had was when my partner and i would do exactly the same things to each other
i would top for a while do some things to her and then we would switch and she would do the same thing to me and then add some thing new then switch again.
it's a great learning experience and you kind of get to feel what the other person felt also it's a weird way of topping from the bottom
i highly recommend it to all who can have this kind of relationship.
have fun -
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Re: BeSwitched?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 11:42 AMi have never said that i wasn't a dominant person. Submission is something i CHOOSE to do because it speaks to me and brings me satisfaction that all my years of being in front didn't do. Always being in front for me has been more of a burden than anything else, so i welcome the chance to surrender. The difficulty for me is finding someone MORE Dominant than i am....i seem to attract a lot of submissives... -
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Unsu...
Re: BeSwitched?
Wed, December 6, 2006 - 2:44 PMGiggle...you mean someone one with bigger balls than you have ...I feel ya sistah!
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Re: BeSwitched?
Fri, December 22, 2006 - 8:35 AMPandora, I don't think that you need to search out somebody that is more DOMINANT than you. I think that the real trick is giving more in the power exchange. The top, if experienced, should be able to become more powerful if the power is given from you.
My experience in BDSM is limited, but I have been with two different submissives in relatively long play relationships.
I was shown that the idea of power exchange really works.
One submissive only gave her power up sparingly. I was stifled. My creativity was low in our play. And all the time in my mind, I had very creative scenes going on. We played very little because she wouldn't give up the power that was hers to give.
The second gives me all the power possible. We have such great fun playing! I don't feel stifled at all. My creativity is up. We always play different scenes.
Of course you shouldn't give up more power than the trust level permits. -
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Unsu...
Re: BeSwitched?
Sat, December 23, 2006 - 10:33 AMAll this boils down to.......It's all about the trust in the individual.
Simone, I know exactly what you mean. I make the decision to be top or bottom. No one allows me and if I choose to submit I do it completely and this is based on the trust in the person I'm bottoming to.
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Re: BeSwitched?
Thu, December 7, 2006 - 8:58 AManother version of my question...
Are you asking if it is possible to be completely submissive in a D/s relationship when you also have a dominant personality in other roles in your life?
I am skeptical that a "true submissive" would think of him/her/itself as a switch. But I am fully convinced that in the D/s context (thanks for that word, TN) that the most dominant of people can be entirely and completely (I won't use "truly") submissive during a scene, or even on a 24/7 basis within the rules agreed to between the participants.
In fact, in my limited experience, I think that those who are strongly dominant in "real life" are those who most enjoy submission. Its a vacation from the responsibilities of "real life", and a chance to get some balance by not experiencing everything from the drivers seat.
Is that the sort of answer you're looking for?
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Re: BeSwitched?
Tue, December 26, 2006 - 2:47 AM<<BeSwitched?
Help me to understand this...How can one be a true submissive with a dominant side always present? >>
Thanks to all of you for helping me understand this. I have little experience with my own submissive side and to be able to do this in the future would mean I would have to go outside my arrangement and find the confidence with another who would allow myself that pleasure.
As for now, I live with a sub, whose only desire has been to be TRUE and has never, ever had the desire to raise above this level. She's confident in her beliefs and goals. Works right beside me to pay the bills and to purchase a home together. She loves the powerplay of pain received and knows in her heart she could never raise up even in play to switch to a DOM. I believe we are at level three in our relationship and the confidence we share together as a couple is totally separate from master and slave. And so in our alternative life style, I do understand what it is that I have asked from all of you but will never be able to experience it myself. But does sound grand to be able to let yourself go for a one night! -
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Re: BeSwitched?
Tue, December 26, 2006 - 4:16 PMAl,
I do not switch with my submissive. I do look outside my primary D/s relationship when feeling the need to bottom or be submissive. So, a whole different dynamic is created.
I see it like my real life. I submit to my bosses needs, that have pre-negotiated perameters. When I do this, I am rewarded with a paycheck and continued employment. I my recreational life I, as a dominant, impose my will on another by pre-negotiated perameters and am rewarded by having things my way or as a bottom I am rewarded by sensations that feed my masochistic side.
I don't have any ideas of this TRUE that you speak of. Maybe it is being confused with natural dominance or submissiveness. But in this world, I believe we all have someone that we have to submit to. Just my opinion.
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Re: BeSwitched?
Tue, December 26, 2006 - 4:20 PMOh, and I fully agree with Darkly's last post. Especially about the vacation.
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Re: BeSwitched?
Tue, December 26, 2006 - 6:13 PM<< As for now, I live with a sub, whose only desire has been to be TRUE and has never, ever had the desire to raise above this level. >>
Someone else already questioned the use of "TRUE" and if it is referring to a natural submission or more submissive nature.
I want to caution looking at being submissive / s bottom being a lower lever in some way, and something to "raise above."
There is nothing lower or less than about being a submissive / bottom.
Remember ... There can be no power exchange if the bottom / submissive has no power to give. Neither the top / dominant nor the bottom / submissive exists without the other. -
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Re: BeSwitched?
Tue, December 26, 2006 - 9:15 PMThank you Simone! I absolutely agree. It takes two to make the journey. One person is only one half of the magic.
des
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Re: BeSwitched?
Sun, February 11, 2007 - 10:51 AMI play with a dynamic that involves creating alternate personalities within myself that can be dominant, submissive or some mixture thereof.
When I am dominant I can allow my selfish nature to come out and the man to please me as I command. I can also let my sadistic side come out and have fun.
Part of what I see bdsm being about is allowing myself to play with and express sides of myself that are otherwise at odds with my main (integrated) personality or feelings that can't be allowed out otherwise.
So I can be a "true" dominant and a "true" submissive. Neither of them is me. Buddha anyone?
Susie -
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Re: BeSwitched?
Sun, February 11, 2007 - 6:33 PMI started out as a submissive,going to the slave auctions at backdrop in the late 70's and early 80's.i started that way due to a number of factors,partly low self esteem,and partly as a way to find a balance in my life....i was working as a bill collector in oakland,specializing in accounts returned as uncollectable by other agencies.i soon started bringing flowers, and saying "ladies choice top or bottom" and ended up playing with many of the women who worked there.90% of the time i topped.one reason bdsm has always been attractive to me is that boundaries are negotiated,and respected.having grown up in a family with few boundaries,none of which were entirely respected,and having had others also fail to respect my boundaries in sometimes violent ways .....i find the insistence on respect for boundaries in this community very attractives so am i a top or a bottom? truly? when i am trusted by a sub who becomes completely helpless,is totally in my power,it is empowering to me and highly erotic.when (very rarely) i can feel safe enough to surrender to a woman completely,it can be really freeing for someone like myself who grew up hypervigilant ,using control as a way to feel safe.also i love to play as an adult there wasn't much chance to do that as a kid. -
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Excellent posts!
Sun, February 11, 2007 - 8:46 PMTom and Susie...great posts both!!
I relate to what you are both saying on some level. Tom, your sentence here made me a little nervous at first... "I started out as a submissive, going to the slave auctions at backdrop in the late 70's and early 80's.i started that way due to a number of factors,partly low self esteem,and partly as a way to find a balance in my life...."
At first I thought "Oh crap now we are going to get an iflux of postings saying hat submissives are not people with low self esteem". That is just a nonsensical statement not worth qualifying, of course they are not. Low self exteem is not limited to submissives, slaves or Dom/Tops. You DO mention finding balance in that sentence as well and that is the key for most of the switches, I know. That sense of balance.
It was my birthday on the 8th and last night I volunteered to get take a public birthday spanking by as many as wanted to take part. Now, for those of you that do not know me, I am generally viewed as a top. Bottoming is something I give alot of serious thought to before even contemplating and submitting is some thing rarer still because of the trust and vulnerability issues I feel when in that role. As finicky as I am I DO need to bottom and last night was a good thing for me to go through.
I can't tell you the amount of faith and trust I had in all that participated. Looking into the faces of people I have beat and played with before as a top or Domme, knowing that this is their chance to give a little something back, to have them smile at me before the disappeared from sight behind my behind...LOL
Was alot of fun and just what I needed ...a bit of humbling and surrender to whatever may come at the hands of those that care for me was great!
Laura
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Re: BeSwitched?
Mon, February 12, 2007 - 6:11 PMI am learning to use that "multiple personality" or "multiples" framework more and more when I try to contemplate the diversity of interpersonal relations, esp. in the kink/BDSM world. It is very useful.
Having conflicting desires is one of the things that brought me to the scene. I was spending so much energy fighting my darker impulses that I was wiping myself out just to stay "normal." So finally I said "fuck it. I'll try it. I can stop any time I want..." and haven't really looked back since.
If I force myself to stick to one "TWUE" personality, persona, whatever, then I limit myself unfairly and unnecessarily to one kind of life experience. How much more wonderful it is to have the option to be an entirely different person sometimes! How lucky I am to live in a part of the world where I have that option!
There are times that I like to go to the Citadel and simply sit and smile and send out positive vibes to people who are there in full alt regalia--leather, or cross-dressed, or diapers, or pony or puppy gear--just to be part of a place that people can be something they choose to be for a time, whatever it is that they may choose.
Is that less than "true"? I'm not sure there is such a thing as truth, not that kind of truth anyway.
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Re: BeSwitched?
Mon, February 12, 2007 - 4:20 AMMy dominant side is not always very present. My personality is mercurial, inconsistent, and often contradictory in nature. I am a complex and multi-faceted individual. Some days I am a dark goddess to be feared and pleased but most of all obeyed. Some days I am a devoted slave who exists only to strive in service of her Master. There are worlds in-between the two and I have inhabited many of them. When I am in each extreme the other is present but it is an idea at the back of my head; a memory of who I am capable of being but am not at the moment. I don't let the memory of servitude interfere with my assumption of authority nor do I let my knowledge of power interfere with my subjugation.
When I am dominant I rest secure in the knowledge that my submissions have been of my choosing and under my control and if any person thinks that makes me less of a Dom I challenge them to submit to me and learn otherwise. When I am submissive there is an extra thrill to giving up the strength and will of a dominant; it makes the surrender more intense.
