hi there, I'm recently joining these tribes and groups to sate an interest i have developed
which i am nonetheless internally ambivalent about. On the one hand, I am increasingly finding "darker" fantasies irresistable, and on the other hand, i keep refering back to basic ethics and trying to reconcile or solve the shadow issues...which isn't working so well.
Obviously people around here have resolved those issues for themselves, I'd be interested
to hear how people reconcile ethics with bdsm, esp things like "no harm" and "ahimsa"?
This isn't an attack or anything, i'm just working out in my own mind the logic of things
and am asking for your thoughts and input?
which i am nonetheless internally ambivalent about. On the one hand, I am increasingly finding "darker" fantasies irresistable, and on the other hand, i keep refering back to basic ethics and trying to reconcile or solve the shadow issues...which isn't working so well.
Obviously people around here have resolved those issues for themselves, I'd be interested
to hear how people reconcile ethics with bdsm, esp things like "no harm" and "ahimsa"?
This isn't an attack or anything, i'm just working out in my own mind the logic of things
and am asking for your thoughts and input?
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Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Sat, June 17, 2006 - 7:23 PMSounds like you're more struggling with letting go of old ideas of what is bad or wrong and learning to stretch yourself a bit. i try to the best of my ability not to harm anyone, but if someone wants intense sensation as part of an erotic journey i am there. i love being taken on erotic journeys by way of intense sensation as well. We all have been conditioned to think of the word "pain" as being a bad thing. i have actually gone on magical, spiritual journeys through "pain" that was basically my own doing, pulling against hooks tied to rope. The Hindus and the Native Americans have the right idea.
Same as for the issues with Dominance and submission. All we do is a matter of choice, not force or coercion. As a result a D/s couple can become a beautifully functioning team, where each role is clearly defined and each person is happy and satisfied. -
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Unsu...
Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Mon, June 19, 2006 - 5:42 PMthanks. The other tribe has a lot more depth, so, I guess that I'll focus mostly there.
I a mstruggling with my ethical paradigm and the complexities that creep into things with
sadomasochism...
Catharsis theory sounds like your main premise.
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Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Tue, June 20, 2006 - 11:08 AMI agree, I prefer the term 'intense sensation' over 'pain'. I find that as the scene progresses, the 'intense sensation' shifts over into a sensation that gives more pleasure than 'pain'.
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Unsu...
Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Tue, June 20, 2006 - 1:48 PMPersonally, I subscribe to the yin and yang philosphy rather than the uber pacifism of ahimsa. A child being born causes pain and harm to some degree but the rewards (or balance - trade off) is bliss and new life. There is no light without dark and no happiness without sadness....so to push that along a bit father I would say that no one can know pleasure without knowing pain.
There are many who truly love walking the the pain pleasure (extreme sensation) tightrope, to deny themselves that excitement, is to deny themselves the very thing that makes them feel alive and happy, is that not harmful? Is it not painful? Harm and pain are very subjective and mean something different to everyone and can only be defined by yourelf for yourself. Of course you would need to communicate this to a partner that you wish to play with.
I would further add that when explaining my reasoning for what I do to others that may not quite understand I go at it in this way: Your skin is the largest organ you have. It is capable of a myriad of sensations, to give it only one or two sells short what you are capable of feeling. When combining the possible combinations of the physical self with less definable matters - mindsets matters of the heart and emotional responses related to BDSM activities, the possibilites for growth and self exploration and awareness are endless.
It sounds to me as if you are trying to get 'permission' to do what you really want to do and while I could give it to you, this is something that you would have to give to yourself. Do it because you want to, do it because it is fun. I love rocky road ice cream and banana splits but I am lactose intolerant and yet every once in awhile I will load up on lactaid and go for broke. Damn the torpedos! Do what gives you joy and revel in it!!
Interesting nickname Prometheus. You could take a lesson from this mythological person. He stole fire from the God's to give to mankind and for all eternity has his internal organs pecked out only to grow back and be pecked out again. Your very name should tell you that some things are worth doing regardless of the consequences or painful repurcussions.
In closing - Love can be severly painful, it can cause you great harm and can make you feel desolate, and heartbroken but almost all of us would risk it all to find it, to have it, to feel it ...for even a short time.
You are trying to define the undefinable ... give yourself permission to get what you want and need and again...DAMN THE TORPEDOS - Carpe Diem - life is too damned short.
Laura
All that is needed for evil to flourish is for a few good men to do nothing. Edmund Burke
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Unsu...
Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Tue, June 20, 2006 - 7:51 PMthanks for the thoughts and answers.
Yes, prometheus stole fire and went through a lot for it... a different kind of fire than what we
are talking about here. I certainly have lived that form of masochism out to the hilt...although i am not sure that i had much choice, it seems to have been my destiny...
Carpe diem is fun and all, but then some line is crossed andtheres a mess and a problem... which happens all too often from what i hear of things....
much to think about
thanks again -
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Unsu...
Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Tue, June 20, 2006 - 9:17 PMId like to hear more about what you're going through--its very vague in your postings... -
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Unsu...
Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Wed, June 21, 2006 - 7:08 PMokay, well, what i am going through;
I studied world religions, worked myself up to being a pretty top of the line mage,
lost my primary "miracle" priveledges after a very obviously unethical bdsm
scene that was sprung in surpise on me whilst i was in theta level trance state and
pan invoked, and have been more or less since then trying to get my ethics straight
so that i can get orison internet access with Keter back on line.
Apparently, I have a deep seated Shadow urge to indulge in some bdsm type play,
and where this comes into conflict with the ethical contract i set up between me and keter,
it disrupts or short circuits my orison internet access.
As a mage and one who understands the true nature of the serpent and the leviathan
and kundalini and the mammalian/reptilian mind, I know that repression won't work and will backfire. In order to reclaim my assorted minor superpowers, I am thus forced to work out mentally the reasoning and conditions which ethically validate bdsm play, which
simultaneously in some senses means doing the front end work to figure out what my kinks and limitations are....
I have two internal competing voices. One is angelic on a level that most people would find incomprehensible...Its existence is predicated on the premise that i am here in this body
to solve humanities problems. The other voice is my own mammalian instinct driven mammal brain, which really just wants to find a good top to open me into bottom space...preferably permenantly...lol.
In particular the pony fantasies end up being very compatible in some ways with Satyrian
consciousness, allthough in other ways the two are mutually exclusive, but thats the subliminal connection.
I figured out how to end the internal dialogue of the frontal coretex, and allow the mammalian mind to surface and to control my body. No small feat.
That translates symbolically into either a Satyr, or a Ponyboy, in terms that civilization is capable of relating to. A whole lot more people apparently understand ponyboy than Satyr.
This is all complicated in that in order to achieve Satyrian consciousness one links the
alpha mind to the collective unconscious; This isn't "MY" fantasy its like a virus i picked up
out of the collective psyche, as it reacted to my strong stimulus.
Thats only the first half, the other half is that I once had a relationship with a hard core pain slut, and i thought when i left that relationship that i had left such kinks behind. Lately
i find myself dreaming about her, wishing for similar playmates....esp a good pain slut
who i would lovingly give my attention to....
So I'm apparently a "switch."
I hope that this clarifies where i am coming from...i fear that it will only complicate things for you...lol. -
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Unsu...
Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Wed, June 21, 2006 - 8:37 PMvery articulate, esp. if one knows Jungian analysis...
my take on your description... you're up in your head/intellect a lot, and bdsm is a way to connect your animal self to your physical consciousness
less thinking, more doing -
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Unsu...
Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Thu, June 22, 2006 - 2:22 PMWell said...Darkly.
he is going to think the fun right out of it if he is not careful! hahaha
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Unsu...
Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Thu, June 22, 2006 - 4:19 PMright, well, that sure compresses everything down to the simple and obvious.
doncha think if i could quit thinking in circles i would? lol.
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Unsu...
Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Thu, June 22, 2006 - 4:56 PMmaybe the most single important lesson I've learned in my years struggling with the whole "Adult Children of Alcoholics" healing process has been that sometimes we have to start acting As If... As if we ARE healthy, as if life IS good, as if people DO love us when they say so, as if things CAN turn out all right...
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Re: ethical and moral quandries?
Fri, June 23, 2006 - 12:51 PMMy boy ran into this when he first came to the scene. He called the " good boys dont do that". He worked thru it and you will too. Darkly is right " less thinking more doing:"
Ms Tender
