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Hey folks,
I'm in a time of give-away and one object I would like to give is a nepalese shaman drum. You can see pictures and learn more about it at my blog: www.thenewanimist.blogspot.com
As I told fishbowl, it is a loner drum, not one that would want to be beat around a fire circle for "drumming and dancing" time, but one that prefers to be the lone voice calling to spirit. If you are interested, write to me through the blog, e-mail, or here and I will ship it to you.
I've been enjoying my give-away. I'm letting go of things I have held precious for 30 or more years. Each person who receives a gift has been delighted with it, and I believe the objects are happy to be moving to new homes and adventures. As I let go, I come to understand more deeply that my self is not invested in my possessions, but may stand utterly alone and still have meaning. Some things I am still holding on to, like my cookbooks and my kids' childhood creations, but I know that someday I will give it all away, even this body, back to the mother.
Have you also had give-away times? Did they feel en-lightening?
Love,
Puny
I'm in a time of give-away and one object I would like to give is a nepalese shaman drum. You can see pictures and learn more about it at my blog: www.thenewanimist.blogspot.com
As I told fishbowl, it is a loner drum, not one that would want to be beat around a fire circle for "drumming and dancing" time, but one that prefers to be the lone voice calling to spirit. If you are interested, write to me through the blog, e-mail, or here and I will ship it to you.
I've been enjoying my give-away. I'm letting go of things I have held precious for 30 or more years. Each person who receives a gift has been delighted with it, and I believe the objects are happy to be moving to new homes and adventures. As I let go, I come to understand more deeply that my self is not invested in my possessions, but may stand utterly alone and still have meaning. Some things I am still holding on to, like my cookbooks and my kids' childhood creations, but I know that someday I will give it all away, even this body, back to the mother.
Have you also had give-away times? Did they feel en-lightening?
Love,
Puny
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 4:36 PMWell, if shipment to Chile is an option......I most certainly wouldn't mind....but that's pretty far to be sending a give away though....
But that's a real generous offer on your part Puny, kudos to ya'!
:)
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Unsu...
Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 4:59 PMI have allways been drawn to the DYANGRO drum... I have never owned a drum but thats the kind i have been waiting for...
I am happy if Jav receives it too : )
I allways figured on would come to me or i would have to make my own... -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 8:42 PMwho has the biggest drum? :) -
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Unsu...
Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 8:52 PMive never had one...
but to be honest ive allways been attracted to the big ones...
BOM! -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 8:55 PMas a medicine lady said once: hit an elk drum, and you will feel it down to your balls! -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 8:58 PMIf you really do not have a drum, then by all means, you need one!
i got to replace the goat hide head on mine. Got a little baby one from j's father. -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 8:58 PMwhat i am missing is a dorje. -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 8:58 PMthis little town here has some very fine tibetian tools of various kinds. Even some gri-gugs on occasion. -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 9:04 PM"I have allways been drawn to the DYANGRO drum... I have never owned a drum but thats the kind i have been waiting for... "
Well, based on that I would say I withdraw my petition for the drum. I think it looks pretty amazing and would be honored to play it, but if it's the kind that you've been waiting for and drawn to, I would say it seems like something more for LLB than me....
:)
Again, extremely generous offer though Puny, thank you kindly! -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 9:10 PMi agree jav.
in the meanwhile, i am going to try beating my chest like tarzan. im feeling particularly male these days. ahem
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 9:12 PMyes extremely generous...
and on that note... i dont really ever have give aways... so to speak... some times it feels like its time to cleanse and gtive things away sure...
but for me i think its the raccoon clan totem, the generosity... i am pretty big on giving gifts... i collect medicines.. all kinds of medicines.. some i work with some others work with... i have so much medicines i give them away to who ever needs it... im a big medicine giver... my fiance notes that i should be a medicine seller and i would have fewer money problems... lol
you dont have a dorge T im surprised! ive got a double dorge i swear that thing just says it all... -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Sun, August 30, 2009 - 9:22 PMi know, one would think i would have a dorje. one of them ongoing moves once, and it was lost. -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Mon, August 31, 2009 - 5:08 AMHey folks: It's been great fun. The drum has found it's new home and I await shipping address. There are different personalities of drums, I think, like of people or clouds for that matter. There's the "my drum is bigger than your drum" drum that you find around pagan fire circles at festivals, and join the tribe work together drums that love big groups, and latin sound drums . . . and we can't forget rock-n-roll drums either. This drum is a solitary call to the spirits drum. What kind is a dorje? Sorry you lost yours Flint. Best to all, Puny -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Mon, August 31, 2009 - 10:40 AMA dorje, Puny is the item that goes with a tibetian bell. it symbolizes lightning . here is a pic:
drilbudorje.tripod.com/8_15be...je1.jpg -
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Unsu...
Re: Drum Give-Away
Mon, August 31, 2009 - 12:21 PMin tibetian i am chencho dorge little lightning bolt... -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Mon, August 31, 2009 - 2:51 PMChencho Dorje.....thats a powerful medicine making name. diamonds and pearl pisti for you!
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Mon, August 31, 2009 - 2:07 PMI am not asking for it. But, I just wanted to say that in this day of 'object addiction' your gesture to be remarkable. I hope t hat it goes to a good home. -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Mon, August 31, 2009 - 3:27 PMHey Richard,
It's been a totally wonderful experience. At 55, I've had plenty of chance to "own stuff" and find that it doesn't provide what I'm really looking for anyway, so giving valuable things away has ironically provided me with great fun and satisfaction. I talk more about that in my blog at www.thenewanimist.blogspot.com. Do you find people to be generally object addicted? I have a brother-in-law who has so much stuff, he had to rent a huge storage unit in addition to his 3000 sq ft home to fit it all. He never uses that boat, the pinball machine, etc etc, but he'd never part with any of it.
And yup, the drum found a good home . . .
Best,
Puny
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Unsu...
Re: Drum Give-Away
Mon, August 31, 2009 - 3:40 PMindeed it did... thank puny...
my old boss had an ebay addiction... had to buy a house to store his stuff in...
i tend to think that people who lived through the depression where hoarders and i think that some of the object fetishism fear of scarcity comes to that...
people have so many motivations for getting stuff... some of it is status based some of it is that they dont know what else to do with themselves... so people have issues with serious hungry ghost and attachement issues...
i like to collect stuff... i collect medicines so i can give them away... i collect feathers so i can make fans and give them away... but i also collect crystals which i keep... but i make crystal essences out of them and give those away too... lol
so T is that really a powerful medicine making name pray do tell bruddha...
pray do tell... -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 6:50 PMVajra Guru - thunderbolt teacher
lightning is associtated with the adamatine buddha (diamond buddha)
the medicine is specially prepared diamonds.
lighting is for cutting thru obstacles, and striking to the root of the 3 causes of disease.
the lightning mudra and a vajra guru prayer, with a prayer to the medicine buddha, and medicines from the serpent people (nagas), you then prepare medicines. Then there is the medicine of two things - the chemicals and phyto nutrients to aid that disease, and the embodied intent of lightning clarity for clearing away obstacles to ones path. so it both heals, and centers intent. -
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Unsu...
Re: Drum Give-Away
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 7:08 PMthats very interesting i never really studied tibetian medince to much, it makes wonderful sense...
I have worked with Vajra Kila god of the purba and the thunder bolt for many years. For a very long time before i knew who he was in ceremonies I would have a knife in my hand, before i had the name LLB, my hand would take the shape of a purba and the hand itself would be used as a purba with the arm acting as a naga... cutting away sickness going inside people, the hand would be moved as you well know a hand can be moved... the weight of the hand would be incredible like a magnet to the earth... when later I saw in the hand was a knife, i found a purba ( seeing how it seemed appropriate to have a demon killing dagger) and the same would occur while holding a purba, it would remove things from people and then slam down into the ground... i eventually found a wooden one from nepal because i was tired of ruinging peoples floors lol... now any peice of wood will work... i like to go out and find those pointy horn looking peices of wood that where once knots formed from a branch that got grown over by the tree... i carve a world tree into it... the purba is the spine, it is the axis mundi, it is a lightning rod. when struck by lightning or light it bridges heaven and earth showing the wholeness and oneness of all that is...
the purba on this drum is the handle and so it is the thunder of varja kila the thunder bolt demigod of tibet.
it is amazing how the spirits of beings from around the world will seek you out to edify you... I once in ceremony was intructed by several Nyingma on healing and excorsim, they sat right there and guided my mind and body teaching me a great deal and helping me rid this woman of a dead that was causing her cancer... I didnt even know what Nyingma ment, i had to go look it up...
I cured my friend of reoccurring polyups that would form in his sinus cavity with my purba once in ceremony, before that he used to have to get surgery once a year to have them removed and he could not smell anything...
I learned that my particular style of healing was very much like the "god men" in tibet, who would "embody" different wrathful deities to heal others. Wrathful deities often times being places as well as forces in nature and aspects of nature itself.
what are the three root causes of disease Flint? -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 10:17 PMdesire, aggression, and ignorance.
Dr. Trogawa Rinpoche
Causes of Mental Disorders
According to the Tibetan Medical Tradition – An Introduction
In previous articles on the Tibetan tradition of medical care, we saw that all types of sickness and disease are treated by the root cause. The long-term source of any imbalance of the three types of humour (nyi-pa-sum in Tibetan) is the three poisons of desire, aggression and ignorance; the short-term source is imbalanced humours arising from seasonal effects, improper diet and behaviour, furthermore from the influence of spirits. There are 360 female spirits connected with desire, 360 male spirits connected with aggression and 360 water-dwelling spirits (nagas in Sanskrit, klu in Tibetan) connected with ignorance. Earth spirits (sa-bdag in Tibetan) live in rocks and stones and are connected with ignorance, too. If the mind poisons dominate, any or all spirits harm and can only be pacified through religious practice and rites.
The causes for a mental illness can arise any time in life. Some individuals are born with brain damage, others are born with a strong wind-disorder inflicted while in the womb. How can a wind-disorder of a pregnant woman influence the embryo? A shock, an unpredictable accident, stress or depression influence the development of an embryo and foetus immensely and can be the seed for a mental disorder later, therefore a friendly and beneficial environment is so very important for a mother awaiting a child, especially during the sixth and seventh months of pregnancy. A mental disorder caused by a mother’s shock can be healed after birth, though. This is why traditional Tibetan medical scriptures also teach how to rear children heedfully, why every Tibetan doctor is very skilled in caring for the young and asks parents to follow the traditional recommendations as early as possible. Nowadays, parents often bring their children to nursery schools and many young ones develop a strong aversion there, which can be quite tedious to surmount later in life. Tibetan families cared for their children without relying upon institutions in the past, but the communists have recently built nursery homes for our children, the first time in the history of my country.
It is very important to encourage youngsters to learn with enthusiasm and joy; it is crucial to stimulate their consciousness and keep them from becoming drowsy and complacent. The annual curriculum at school teaches ways to master challenging phases in life, and every child needs to be gratified with the benefits of succeeding in the onward flowing process and to never be excluded from an active and varied life by falling back when learning to cross thresholds in a competitive world.2 At first, it may seem irrelevant that failing denotes an obstacle, but everyone - especially children - wishes to take root in a corner of the world, otherwise non-identifiable psychic repercussions may arise later.
Highly qualified specialists and scientists are more prone to mental instability because they studied much too long before taking on responsibilities in a job or at work. Scientists are known to be scatterbrains and sometimes resemble sleeping beings lost in automatisms. Many have acquired high academic degrees but often seem to be incapable of dealing with the soil of everyday life - a critical state. Young soldiers sent away to face and deal with hostility and combat return home traumatized, because they were not prepared and rarely receive possibilities to reconstitute themselves in their societies. Young men and women who have not learned to cope with minor responsibilities may never be pushed or forced to deal with stress or violence of any kind, especially the torments that a war always entails.
It is vital for one’s health and well being to become skilled in handling problems, to enjoy the work one does, to appreciate the people one meets and the environment where one lives - stress is no threat for such individuals. On the other hand, it is detrimental for one’s health and well being to fail in handling problems, to dislike the work one does, to despise the people and environment where one lives. As it is, life is an unremitting journey in learning to see through the veil of ignorance that brings on attachment and aversion - continuously. How do the three mind poisons affect health and well being?
In the articles presented, we looked at the process of being-becoming and saw that attachment and aversion determine life.3 Let us look at how attachment and aversion dominate health and well-being so decisively and how they bring on sickness and disease.
How does attachment cause bad health? When the wish of attaining an aim has been thwarted and brought to nothing, frustration can turn into obsessive greed which fans the winds in the body. Should bad eating habits and an unhealthy lifestyle heap secondary causes on the primary cause, then a derailment arises. A lapse into sickness and disease can be even more threatening if the winds that arise in oneself are suppressed.
Two imbalanced winds usually lead to a mental disorder and must be treated: the wind in the heart (me-nyam-rlung) and the wind in the energy-channel (srog-adzin-rlung). Those who think everything is going wrong and those who are sure that they have had enough of life tend to develop the first imbalance, through “the wind of the heart.” Those who have experienced a sudden shock or have had an unexpected accident tend to develop the second imbalance, through “the life-grasping wind.” Meditation practitioners of tummo4 should know that they are apt to intensify srog-adzin-rlung, “the life-grasping wind,” in their body, so they need to be careful and practice correctly. Meditators of prana5 (Sanskrit for “breath-control visualizations”) should know that the chakras in their channels could be irreparably damaged if they do not follow the rules and therefore they need to be especially cautious. For example, a prana-practitioner is likely to react with intense fear when someone unexpectedly knocks on his door; a current of fear can soar through the visualized subtle central channel up to the head-chakra, the seat of srog-adzin-rlung, on account of what would otherwise be perceived as a slight irritation. In radical cases of faulty practice, frightening or endangering reports can cause the winds in the body of a prana-practitioner to uncontrollably surge upwards and, as a result, destroy the flow of energy in the body, even retarding the brain and leaving a victim to shake for the rest of his life.
The mind is the initial force that moves the winds in the body; the winds influence the subtle channels, and the body is affected in response. Mental disorders arise due to the imbalanced life-grasping wind as well as the wind of the heart, the sning-rlung. Let us take a closer look at the mind in relation to the winds.
There are so many things we do not like, the reason why we reject so much and develop aggression towards appearances and experiences that are the ingredients of life. Aggression is a hot humour, which some people can deal with quite well. When aggression is suppressed, hot energy is born in the body and heats the blood. Tibetan medical studies tell us that the third bile, sgrub-byed-mkhris-pa (“accomplishing bile”), becomes imbalanced at this point. Furthermore, aggression can perturb the srog-adzin-rlung (“the life-grasping wind”) and raise the blood pressure, harming the heart as a result.
Sometimes mental states affect the body very fast, e.g. when someone becomes angry they can get a headache, or when someone suffers from stress they can get a skin disease very fast. Both symptoms are quite evident, whereas the causes aren’t. Tibetan medical texts therefore teach physicians to recollect embryology first and to take the development of the elements into consideration when diagnosing a sickness or disease. Let me repeat the most important points, which I described in the article Embryology, again: “The human body consists of five elements. Flesh and bones, the nasal faculty and the respective sensory organ, that allows us to smell, develop from the earth element. Blood and bodily fluids, the tongue faculty and the sensory organ, that make it possible for us to taste, develop from the water element. Bodily temperature and lustre, the visual faculty and the sensory organ, that makes it possible for us to see (both forms and colours), develop from the fire element. Skin, the respiratory system as well as the tactile ability to feel what we touch develop from the wind (air) element. The space element is the fundamental element that provides space for the other four elements to manifest, furthermore, all physical cavities in the joints, bodily openings, the ear faculty and the sensory organ, that enables us to hear, develop through the space element. The five elements are the bases for the physical body and are permeated by an individual’s feelings and thoughts.”
In the article on The Three Humours, we also saw that mind and body are intricately connected and that the wind and mind move as a unified pair, even during the bardo, “the intermediate state between death and birth.” Why, then, does the skin become darker and rougher when excessive wind energy flows through the body? The skin is a product of rlung, “the force and energy of wind.” I think the process is as follows: Mental tension disperses the wind energy that influences the skin. That would explain the connection between the mind, its mental states, and skin diseases. Please bear with me while I continue in this line of thought.
Excessive wind disturbs what are called “the five domains of wind disorders,” which are the bones, the ears, the skin, the heart (i.e., the life-force) as well as the large intestine. When wind disorders increase and expand, they move to the seats of the mkhris-pa (“bile”) and bad-kan (“phlegm”) energy forms. It is important to recognize which organ has been affected in order to identify the progression of a disease. Where do the energies of bile and phlegm concentrate in the body and which sickness arises when they are disrupted?
Bile disorders are to be found in the blood, in perspiration, in the eyes, in the doublet of liver and gall bladder and in the small intestine. Disorders of the phlegm energy are complex, can be identified in reliance upon what is called “the seven stages of an organ.” They disrupt nutriment, flesh, fat, marrow and reproduction; the organs affected by bile disorders are the nose, tongue, the lungs, the spleen and kidneys as well as the vascular organs of the stomach and bladder. Wind disorders develop at one of the spaces mentioned above. If a sickness worsens because of an insufficient diet and a bad lifestyle, it expands and interferes other energy spots. First, the characteristics of the humour changes, e.g. when wind gradually disturbs a respective organ, then both wind and bile are a pair, until the increasing wind energy harms and disrupts the respective energy form. Finally, only the signs of wind are identifiable in places where there should only be signs of bile, for instance. This can also happen when phlegm energy is responsible for the stability of an organ. Imbalances, in any case, lead to displacement of energy forms.6
Question: What do you think about relaxation exercises for patients with neurotic disturbances?
Rinpoche: They seem to be good, although I cannot say anything about them. Intensive physical exertion and exercises seem to help patients with neurotic disorders.7
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2 In The Poetics of Space, Gaston Bachelard (1884-1962, one of Europe’s leading philosophers) wrote: “In how many tales of childhood (…) we should be told of a child that, lacking a room, went and sulked in his corner!” Translated from the French by Maria Jolas. Beacon Press, Boston, 1969, p. 14.
3 See specifically my article Medical Care in the Tibetan Tradition – An Introduction.
4 The practice of inner heat generation, one of the Six Yogas of Naropa.
5 Advanced breath control practice from the Mother Tantras of the three tsalung, called nadi, prana, and bindu in Sanskrit.
6 Gaston Bachelard wrote: „Between them they constitute this prodigious, ambivalent teaching which supports the conviction of the heart with the lessons of reality, and which conversely enables us to understand the life of the universe by the life of our hearts.
“All the other elements abound in similar ambivalent certitudes. They suggest secret confessions and display brilliant images.” On Poetic Imagination and Reverie. Selected, translated and introduced by Colette Gaudin. Spring Publ., Putnam, Connecticut, 2005, p. 36.
7 In the same vein, Gaston Bachelard told us: „(...) as soon as the hand takes part in storytelling, as soon as real energies are engaged in a work, as soon as the imagination actualizes its images, the substance of unhappiness dissolves. Action is therefore the negation of unhappiness.” On Poetic Imagination and Reverie, p. 67. "
www.jcrows.com/trogawa_me...orders.html -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 10:19 PMmind poison is one of the most destructive forces in creation.
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 5:02 PMI think that all of us in this western culture are enmeshed with our property. Someone with a newer cool car will feel better about them self than if they are driving a clunker with dents (like I have). Even as far as your drum goes will the new owner feel that they are more indigenous, sustainable by owning this drum?
I read somewhere that Australian Aboriginals will walk off and leave possessions with out a thought. I know that also that the give away is an important part of indigenous cultures. So that a person might measure their wealth by how much they can give away.
I am embarrassed to say that I have too much stuff laying around so I am not excluding myself from 'stuff addiction'. Perhaps you will inspire some of us to move out of our accumulation culture.
On another group here some was asking about what typifies our western culture. I would say they tendency to accumulate things for its own sake. Then we have police to protect our things from those with less. -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 5:28 PM"I know that also that the give away is an important part of indigenous cultures. So that a person might measure their wealth by how much they can give away. "
It's important to understand the concept of giving in indigenous cultures properly though, and not confuse it with our conception of the matter. In indigenous societies as a general rule there is no such thing as a free gift. Sometimes giving something to someone is much more of a rude act than not giving it. And the NW Potlatch that is often referred to by folks as this like totally groovy give away the Indians do....well, it's kind of more like competitive warfare than it is giving.....Every gift given to someone else makes that person be indebted to the giver for an equal or greater amount than the gift given. So if you can't pay it back.....well, someone just bought your allegiance without ever really asking you.....it's an interesting phenomenon.
I guess my point is that the total "give away" is really an invention of our society as a reaction to materialist thought. A gift, from another perspective, should have what we would think of as strings attached, and what others would consider as an essence that engages two people or parties in a relationship that could continue throughout long periods of time.....
:) -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 5:28 AMThat's true, Jav, re: obligation entailed by gifts. In many cultures, a gift obligates the receiver, and in this way, ties people together. Obligation is horrifying to our individualistic psyches, but in more communal cultures, duty and obligation are the glue of society.
As for potlach, the Northwestern Indian giveaway ritual, the gain is status . . . equivalent in some ways to power. So there is benefit. I've been surprised by how many people think I'm saintly for giving things away. I assure you, I am receiving more than I am giving. I am just transforming material objects into spiritual strength . . . which I need more of right now.
Best to all,
Puny
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 10:59 AM>"I know that also that the give away is an important part of indigenous cultures. So that a person might measure their wealth by how much they can give away. " <
In my Eastern Native culture...the give away is a sign of respect and friendship, as well as the teaching says in giving freely of what you have...you will receive many blessings in turn. the door to our house is always open, as well as we freely share food and resources... I can honestly say, we are never without whether it be food, medicines, or a place to stay. It is often better to give than to receive. -
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Unsu...
Re: Drum Give-Away
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 11:20 AMgenerosity to guests is huge for me as well...
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Unsu...
Re: Drum Give-Away
Tue, September 1, 2009 - 6:25 PMwell put Jav...
there was still an accumilation of wealth even slaves in the PNW and you could give away i slave as well as far as i recall. the more you had to give away the higher your status, and the finer the things you gave away the higher your status in the society.
I have often talked about the illusion fo ownership and i have brought up the derrick jensen parable of the box notion... which is interesting... but the preoccupation of wealth and status and its relationship to material goods is a preoccupation that spans cultures, though it may take unrecognizable forms in a culture that is not our own its still often there... and can be as healthy or unhealthy as the particular societies relationship with it is or more importantly the individual within that society...
and on that note...
"Even as far as your drum goes will the new owner feel that they are more indigenous, sustainable by owning this drum?"
nope...
"On another group here some was asking about what typifies our western culture." which western culture are you speaking of? there are so many western cultures its a pretty huge generalization. there is a western soceity, but I have never really seen any real evidence to support this idea that there is one huge generalized western culture... western society is composed of many many cultures and yes it does have some what steady social norms... but one culture it is not.
what would I personaly say from my own observations as something that typifies western soceity in general in america? i woudl say its access to debt... which allows for all kinds of unhealthy relationship dynamics with things... but once again that is just my personal value judgement based on what is healthy and what is not healthy to me... from the perspective of a rapidly growing animist subculture living within the western american society. -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 2:23 PM"Obligation is horrifying to our individualistic psyches, but in more communal cultures, duty and obligation are the glue of society. "
Very well put Puny, I think this is the crux of the matter. Obligation has like some negative connotations in an individualistic society, but in a world where you constantly interact and relate with all the persons around you, well, it kinda feels good to have obligations to others, like there's a role for you in society.....
And yeah LLB, slaves were definitely a big part of potlatches, oftentimes slaves were just flat out killed as a sign of wealth, if I'm not mistaken with a log placed over the throat.....not a fun way to go either. But the real big deal was when leaders would throw copper plates over a cliff. That was the biggest sign of wealth and prestige possible. Funny thing is, my understanding is that the potlatch was never a big deal until the British outlawed traditional warfare, and so it morphed into competitive feasting......lol......
And I hear people talking like "ooooh, the potlatch is so cool and how society should be".....and in my head I'm imagining slaves with logs on their throats, lol..... -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Wed, September 2, 2009 - 4:09 PMaround here, the Nez Pers/Nimipu would have giveaways upon one's death. It is not the items of the deseased that are given away - it is (from what I understand) the possessions of those attending the funeral. -
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Unsu...
Re: Drum Give-Away
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 11:07 AMi still really like just looking at whether things are high or low sysnergy and getting rid of the romaticism in general...
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 2:52 PMCould you define what you mean by the difference in High and Low Synergy? Thanks. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Drum Give-Away
Thu, September 3, 2009 - 5:43 PMits a concept that derrick jensen borrowed. Its detailed on the parable of the box blog post on BRA.
The basic of it is there are high synergy culture who work with life, nature, each other, in the classic sense of synergy and there are those that do not. Even some animist cultures would possibly rate rather low on the synergy scale if there was one. Animist does remain a highly synergistic world view but there are examples of low synergy even in animist communities. some of this may be due to conflicts from out side the community, colonization ect...
at any rate i think its interesting to look at things in terms of synergy... -
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Re: Drum Give-Away
Fri, September 4, 2009 - 12:06 AMThanks, that is what I thought you meant - just wanted some clarification.
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