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I havent been reading any other the posts on here as of today but I will........
I just want to say something...Its all about the money. If anyone wants to stop the corperate money chain, you'll have to cut the chain. Or choke it. Anyway.
LOL
How can we stop what is clearly in my opinion out of control?
STOP BUYING!!!! STUPID SHIT!!!!!!
I just want to say something...Its all about the money. If anyone wants to stop the corperate money chain, you'll have to cut the chain. Or choke it. Anyway.
LOL
How can we stop what is clearly in my opinion out of control?
STOP BUYING!!!! STUPID SHIT!!!!!!
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Thu, January 25, 2007 - 12:29 PMJakeob I would really like to not go to Walmart at all. But I live 2 miles from one. The Target I go to was 3 1/2 miles away but that one shut down. I try to get everything I can from Safeway but there simply are something's that I really need from Walmart.
Everything around me is a big Chain and I fear all America will soon be this way. -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Thu, January 25, 2007 - 1:45 PMHey, if someone has what I need or want, at the best (or good) price and it's more convenient to go there, that's where I'm likely to go. Doesn't matter if it's Wal-Mart, Target, Safeway or Mom & Pop's. If all the world is served by big chains, it won't bother me. The free market means that competition will keep things relatively cheap, progressively better and consistently available. That's all a capitalist could ever want. But then, not everyone is willing to embrace that mindset. I would invite them to go enjoy the socialist lifestyle for a while. We'll leave the light on. -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Thu, January 25, 2007 - 2:21 PMBeing all about money is un-sustainable. Do you really think once all their competition is eliminated Walmart won't start hiking up their prices & their profits? Please!
NEVERMIND the slave "wages" they are paying their labor force in Indonesia & elswhere.
Look, my aunt lives on social security (in other words, below the poverty line), so she can't afford to shop anywhere but Walmart & I do not hold that against her. And I feel for you (& the birds in the trees above your car) if you'd have to drive 10 extra miles or more to shop for food & other necessities if you were to try to boycott Walmart. Support the greedy capitalists if you must, but I can afford to protest their shortsighted ways so I do. -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Fri, January 26, 2007 - 2:53 AMIt always cracks me up when I hear about the low wages being paid abroad. What isn't taken into account, often, is that the wages aren't all that low in comparison to what folks are already making there. Not to mention the fact that many times there aren't many other ways to make a living in an economically depressed or underdeveloped area.
I once had an awesome massage in China that cost me 20 Yuan ($2.50) and I gave the girl a $10 tip. She was ecstatic! My interpreter told me that she only makes about 200 Yuan ($25) a month. So just keep in mind the economies of scale when you talk about what these poor people are being paid. -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Fri, January 26, 2007 - 10:48 AMwatch all the things that are out there about them and tell me if you feel the same
www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/f...hows/walmart/
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
www.youtube.com/watch
if you watch the pbs frontline one wich you can rent .. and still tell me you feel the way you do now then so be it.... -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Fri, January 26, 2007 - 12:48 PMI watched the Frontline program (twice, actually), plus the other one on MSNBC some months ago and, yes, I do feel the same way. I just don't think it's fair to zero in on Wal-Mart when many of the things that people complain about are not exclusive to Wal-Mart. Ultimately, though, I have supreme faith in the free market to reconcile most of the grievances through competition. I think its good to expose instances where they are not being a good corporate citizen so that reform is possible and insisted upon by those most affected.
However, in the realm of all things to get bent out of shape about, I don't find Walmart anywhere near the top of my personal list.
Life is full of choices to make that affect how it turns out for you, personally. So do what it takes so that you're not forced to shop there or work there, if that's really important to you.
For me, I'll be buying stuff there until someone comes up with an alternative that makes sense to me economically, socially and personally.
There are real boogeymen in the world and very few of them wear a blue vest with a yellow smiley face on it. -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Sun, January 28, 2007 - 4:53 AM....its not so much about what they pay ppl in other countries to work for them or the companies they do business with . its about all the good paying jobs they ahve sent overseas to supposedly save us all money when the facts have proven most their prices are not lower just the so called "HOOK " items they advertise and either ont have in stock when you are there or are not exactly what you want than you go buy something else like that and pay the same amount as any other store.....and really how much money does one family need they are the richest family in the world and keep paying sub standard wages......but everyone thinks their saving money....try to say that when your job is gone because of them -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Sun, January 28, 2007 - 6:57 AMI'm sorry, I got lost in your comment. Are you talking about Wal-Mart or companies outsourcing overseas? As far as lower prices go, my wife estimates that were saving $80-100/month by grocery shopping at Wal-Mart vs. the store that's closer to our house.
Companies who choose to move operations overseas often improve their production costs (or why else would they move there?) by doing so. Whether they pass some of the savings on to the consumer is a different question.
It's amazing, though, how so many good paying jobs are going overseas and, yet, the unemployment rate is relatively low and our GDP continues to rise. Perhaps things aren't so bad (yet). -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 2:18 PMi think i'm still trying to figure out why you are on the 'boycott walmart' tribe.... -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 3:03 PMDick is here to play devil's advocate. Without him we'd all agree & then what would we talk about? ;~) -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 3:17 PMhmmm...wonder if there's a 'devil's advocate' tribe.....
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 3:19 PMbeing Devil's Advocate and having an answer for everyone are two different things IMO -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 4:11 PMI'm sorry, I thought others might enjoy (as I do) having an intelligent conversation with someone other than a syncophant on a subject other than the war in Iraq. As far as "having an answer for everyone", trust me, I've let a lot of things go on here that I otherwise would take issue with. It's true, I don't agree with where a lot of folks are coming from, but I think I've been fairly civil about it and if you guys find my presence here to be a problem, just pipe up and I'll be gone.
I can't help but be curious about how the other camp reasons differently than I do about things, so that's why I'm here...to engage and thereby to gain a better understanding. Who knows, I might even learn something or be convinced otherwise. I'm sorry, I thought having an open mind was a good thing. -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Tue, January 30, 2007 - 4:26 PMintelligent conversations are important -- my experience with others with this same type thing has left me feeling they were nothing more than a troll. but with your post, i now have a better understanding of why you are here.... -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Sat, February 3, 2007 - 1:19 PMI understand the concept behind the scale of pay in relation to a person's environment/economy. Yes, it may be adequite, however we are assumeing that only pay is important to a person's quality of life. I disagree. These workers are held in condtions that are often unsafe, with long hours, limited bathroom breaks, and no health insurance (you know, just in case you lose an arm) or job assurance. Work is so deperately needed that they essentialy held hostage in this situation. This isn't even mentioning the amount of pollution these companies are getting a way with dumping in foreign countries with lax laws. We need to look deeper at the situation. -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Sat, February 3, 2007 - 8:12 PMIf Wal-Mart can fix all that, I hope they do. -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Sun, February 4, 2007 - 1:17 PMI feel that as a consumer I have power over their choice to. By withholding my monetary contribution to the issue it makes a break in the chain. If enough of us do it, the chain breaks apart. I know it sounds crazy and outlandish but it's worked before. Social movements are what creates these changes. Enough people standing up and demanding that these issues be faced. Wal-mart does have the cure (for their suppliers at least). If they would stand up and say, "These conditons are unsatisfactory. They need to be changed or we are pulling out our business" I believe things would change. You wouldn't be getting "the same low prices" but at what the real cost is can we as a society say this is OK? -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Mon, February 5, 2007 - 5:33 AMIf compassionate capitalism truly exists outside of an idea, I hope people, corporations and governments can learn to practice it. Until then, it seems the task is really to win the hearts and minds of folks who either don't know/don't care that these deficiencies exist. Ultimately, most everyone acts in their own best interest until they have compelling reasons not to do so. For me, anyway, I've not yet found compelling reasons. -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Mon, February 5, 2007 - 5:45 AMI understand where you are coming from Dick. It begins with one though. Once you know the truth about a situation, you can't pretend you don't anymore. You make a choice to turn away from the issues, not me. Yes, I realize this is an imperfect world and there may always be those that are in a similar situation. I (and many others on this list) are choosing to say no.
<<<Ultimately, most everyone acts in their own best interest until they have compelling reasons not to do so.For me, anyway, I've not yet found compelling reasons.>>>
If not contributing to human suffering is not enough of a compelling reason, I don't know what's left for you. So buy it up! Get all the cheaply made plastic crap you can get your hands on! Hurry-while prices are low! -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Mon, February 5, 2007 - 7:50 AMDespite what you may think, Wal-mart is not the root cause of human suffering. I agree, it may not be doing it's part to relieve it, but the suffering was extant before they showed up anywhere. I'm sorry, but long work days, scant potty breaks and lack of health insurance is not nearly as compelling as abject poverty, famine, genocide and horrific natural disasters. These are areas where I am far more apt to act.
Human suffering is a relative concept that is delineated by degrees and rarely solved solely by intervention. The old "teach 'em to fish" concept. Humans are wonderfully adaptive when given the proper tools and skills. And, where there were few/no jobs in a country, even an exploitive employer can at least give them hope and momentum to move forward.
Anyway, I wish you and your colleagues well in your efforts. -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Mon, February 5, 2007 - 8:21 AMI realize they are not the original cause but they are a catalyst for the suffering and exploitation to remain. It's unfortunate that you are minimizing these peoples suffering to mere "long work days, scant potty breaks and lack of health insurance". When in reality it is so much more! Do a search and you'll find loads of articles that relate to it. Here's one of the 1,100,000 that google pulled up: www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz...003339910
<<Human suffering is a relative concept that is delineated by degrees and rarely solved solely by intervention. >> You are kidding right? Yes, it is relative but to say that it is rarely solved by intervention? I can't think of one social movement that did not stem from intervention. Do you think the folks causing the strife suddenly woke up one day and said, "Woah! We are totally shafting these folks! Let's give them what they deserve". That would be nice but that's just not how it works. People have to stand up for themselves and for others. These folks are not in a place that they can stand up and demand their rights so I feel it is our duty as conscious beings to do it for them.
<<<even an exploitive employer can at least give them hope and momentum to move forward>>> You're delusional if you think they will be moving forward in this line of work.
Reading your rebuttals, I feel like you are not really looking for an answer but rather trying to make excuses for not wanting to change something THAT IS IN YOUR CONTROL. That is unfortunate and also your choice. So be it... -
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Re: its about the money.......duh!!
Mon, February 5, 2007 - 7:33 PMThe article you chose undoubtedly shows abuse that is outside Chinese regulations and I'm sure the Chinese will handle it in their own way. I'm also sure that this is the exception, rather than the rule. I've been to China and I'm going back there in May. I can assure you that, although not even close to being perfect, their system looks at non-conformists with a jaundiced eye. Remember, this is a third world country struggling to gain its footing in the modern world and they are slow to change. One day, when they finally overtake us as the world's economic leader, you will find that the average Chinese citizen will be much better off and will not tolerate this kind of stuff, much like we largely don't.
But I digress.
You're right, I don't want or see the need to change in this case. I just don't see how you expect to accomplish your goals by not patronizing Wal-mart. You're right, social movements don't happen spontaneously, but the impetus for them is nearly always the need for an antidote for some fundamental wrong in a society. What you describe here and ascribe to Wal-Mart has more to do with entitlements than some baseline human rights issue. Where there is increased prosperity, there is greater choice for employment, increased standard of living and the inclination to fight for better treatment (i.e. unions and labor/workplace oversight). But then, isn't unionization part of the "outsourcing overseas" equation in the first place? Power to the people!
Until you get your ideas into the mainstream of public discourse, there will never be the kind of change you want to incite. How can it? Wal-Mart will never get the message until people in numbers large enough to matter opt out of their enterprise. Good luck with your campaign.
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