Paganism and Suicide

Having dealt with the intense pain of suicide, I believe that there is mercy and comfort for those who commit suicide as a result of severe, organic depression. Not all defeats should be seen as failures... some are learning experiences in themselves.

Well, I don't hold to the idea that we get reincarnated again and again until we have experienced all there is for a human to experience, and thus I don't believe that ending a life in suicide will merely restart the particular circumstances of that life over again in order to force a soul to complete a course, if you will.

I don't really believe that suicide will result in any sort of different outcome in the afterlife than death by any other means, really. But then, I don't believe necessarily that the Gods created human beings and therefore would take it personally if someone comitted suicide. Really, I believe it depends on the deity in question. Going by the myth cycles of the various pantheons we can see that some Gods are infinitely compassionate while others are not so much. In that respect I think the Gods are rather like us--some would take pity on a soul so tortured that they ended their own life, and others have reputations for having little compassion or patience. But unless you were, say, under oath with a particular God or Goddess NOT to commit suicide and you broke that oath, I really don't see the Gods having an issue either way.

First let me say that I also suffered from extreme severe depression for most of my life, and was definitely dangerously suicidal for at least two years. Through therapy, medication, and supportive love, I was able to pull through it. I am still medicated, and have been for the past 13 years. It allows me to live a very high functioning, satisfying, joyful life. My ultimate reason NOT to kill myself was that I couldn't bear to put my family through the trauma of it, because I knew they would blame themselves. At the time I didn't classify myself as pagan, but now I wonder if it didn't fall into the rede of "an it harm none". My suicide would have devastated those who loved me most, and I couldn't bring myself to cause them that pain. Eventually, I pulled myself out of that abyss, and have lived a very happy life.

This might sound strange, but I've wondered that for some of us: perhaps part of our life path is designed to experience suicide, whether you go through with it, decide against it, or go through with it. I'm not a strong believer that fate is absolute, and that we have no control over what happens to us. So to clarify, I am certainly NOT saying that some of us were born to commit suicide. That's retarded. But I do believe we are faced with certain dilemmas for a reason, that our types of struggles are somewhat predetermined, and spiraling into deep depression may be one of the ways that we are supposed to learn whatever lesson it is that we are here on this earth. This does not necessarily mean that by committing suicide you have "failed" your life's lesson, and are doomed to repeat it. Maybe succumbing to suicide somehow has balanced out our past life karma, unknown to our conscious self. In that way, maybe it has in fact progressed us to enlightenment, not damnation. Or vice versa. Deciding not to kill yourself has set your previous karma straight. Who knows.

I don't believe in hell. But I do believe that in some way we will have to pay for our actions, or at least be put into situations in which we can settle old business. I also believe that our true spiritual selves are actually rather detached and curious about human life, and hungry to experience all aspects of it before we feel that we can truly be at rest and enlightened. In some way, we may have chosen to live just one life of misery, to satisfy our higher conscious's curiosity, and really understand what it is to suffer, so that in the next life, we can understand what it is to be happy.

I don't believe in the Christian idea that anyone who commits suicide therefore commits murder, and will suffer in hell for eternity. I feel that anyone who committed suicide experienced hell on earth, and has rightly learned their lesson and deserved to go to a better place. I feel that God/dess is much more forgiving than that.

Not sure if my rambling makes sense, but thanks for letting me ramble anyway! : )

My deeply held faith which follows the path of everything in the universe being connected and there always being a subconscious universal will that trys to keep everything in balance. In my faith when we are born the universe breaks off a spark and gives it to each new life. It is up to us to make that spark grow through living and gaining knowledge and better understanding. When we die (not matter how we die) that spark does not extinguish, but instead returns to the universe. Into what I like to call the "Cosmic Recycler". All of the sparks of life merge together and become one. When it is time for new life, a fragment of that whole is then broken off and given to the new life.

So I don't have a real moral issue with suicide. Other then it often cuts short the persons potential to grow their spark as much as they should.

I believe that Suicide is a personal thing and there are alot reason people do it.I can't believe that someone with mental illness will be punished any more then they have already suffered.Maybe they do come back to relive the lesson again..But maybe there soul needed to rest to be able to try again..A stronger soul..

I love that movie and it had some very pretty scenes in it.But,It was more of a christian movie or Catholic movie to me.Which I respect very much.I myself don't believe in the heaven/hell thing.I believe in the balance of good and evil,dark and light.I am not saying that Suicide is a answer to any problem but you would have to understand Mental illness.Someone who doesn't know they are sick and kills themselve shouldn't be punished for a illness that they can't controll..Remember,when 911 happened people were jumping from the Towers.I can't believe that because they choice to jump instead of staying to pass away a different way that they would be punished.It's really hard to say whats on the otherside and whats in store for us.I would hope that the higher power would have mercy on thoses beautifuls souls that left before their time.I do believe in a afterlife.I just don't believe in the fire and brimstone.I believe in the Universe and the allmighty higher spirit.

Wow. Serious discussion.

I don't know that anyone gets through life without getting to feel what real depression is like. I would bet that more people go through the suicide dance than would readily admit and I would likewise wager that, more often than not, those who are most condemning are those most afraid of losing themselves to it - most afraid of it.

I have been freinds with people diagnosed with a depressive medical condition and I fully admit that I do not understand what that is like. I sometimes wonder if medication is very much like the yoga solution or any other single form of religious, artistic or whatever form of relief one can get for that pain - a systematic praxis dedicated for healing in that individual. I guess I am saying that I believe in many forms of healing (scientific, yogic, religious, aesthetic what have you) - but then, what of those that do not recieve healing?

I believe strongly that we are often more right than we think we are. Those who kill themselves, or even try, speak always of escape. They can't be %100 wrong if they all believe the same thing, but I also believe that it can't be a full escape. If reincarnation is correct, and I have no reason to doubt it, I'll bet a life spent as a sparrow or even a dung beetle would be bliss compared to the agony of constant human depression - a kind of rest before coming up to the plate again. Instead of placing the weight of guilt on a regressive reincarnation, why not think of it as a 'time out' to regroup and try again?

And hell? I know a number of people that live out their whole lives in hell - right here, right now. You don't have to die to be in eternal torment, just seriously messed up inside. Dying in that case might just hit the 'reboot' button - or they might be stuck in hell forever whether they come back or not.

In my understanding, once a person passes on, they continue to exist in a state not dissimilar to the state they were in when they ended life. I don't believe that we have "lessons to learn." That assumption never made sense to me. I also don't believe that there are any outside entities judging or "punishing" us for any of our actions, including suicide. (oaths made to gods notwithstanding, as another person mentioned earlier. that's a different story). I do accept karma, but the karmic consequence would be incurred by the pain one causes to their loved ones by committing suicide, not the suicide itself. I know that seems cruel, since the depression may cause pain too severe to handle, but that does not eliminate the pain caused to friends and family.

So, what I believe happens is this. The person commits suicide, and is shocked to find that he or she did not cease to exist. The person perhaps passes to the lower astral planes and not any further, due to their miserable state of mind. I don't believe that death causes any kind of sudden enlightenment. If the person dies in a state of depression and confusion, there is no reason to believe that this changes all of a sudden. A person in this state, whose thoughts are attracting so much negativity... may find themselves reborn into a negative circumstance reflecting their own thoughts. I know it's a depressing thought... but it is what makes sense to me.

I actually thought that the movie "What Dreams May Come" rang quite true in this sense. I don't see how it is Christian or Catholic in any sense! There was no objective hell, no judgment, no punishing. She continued the afterlife in the same state she was in during life. If you are in an awful state of mind, all the thoughtforms you create around you will be similarly awful. Like attracts like, and your negative thoughts will attract negative entities. That is just how things are. Not that it's impossible to get out of this - obviously people can and do break out of this cycle!

One final note. I am surprised that people who are generally spiritually aware seem to suddenly forget about the mind-body connection when it comes to depression. Do you all think that organic depression comes out of nowhere, and the victim had nothing to do with it? If a person develops diabetes or heart disease, then his or her prior food and lifestyle choices probably had something to do with it. Similarly, organic depression does not form out of a vacuum. Years of negative thinking affect the physical brain - which in turn affects thinking - which further affects the brain. The mind and brain are in a constant, cyclical connection. What happens to one will affect the other. That is why there are two possible solutions to depression - both medications and positive spiritual activity can help, because the cycle can be broken at either point - mind or brain. However, the point is, a "victim" of any biological disease is not really a victim. Meds can help once a person lets their condition slide too far, but in any case the solution lies in their own hands. And, anyone who has broken free of this condition without committing suicide should be lauded and admired, and should be very proud of their accomplishment!