From My view point.

When Drumming for dancers you really need a lead drummer to keep things going (This is not and really should not be the drummer doing all of the fancy fills)

What they need to do is make sure the drummers play the same rhythms - that rhythms are not repeated too frequently and to make sure the drummers end together in a manner the dancers can also end with the drummers (This gives the dancers the chance for the big finish)

They should also make sure both ends of the circle are playing the same tempo !!!

They need to watch what people are dancing to. If no one is dancing end the rhythm and move on. If the dancers are experienced do more complex rhythms.

When dealing with single dancers you need to watch for tempo queues and a queue to finish

Some finish queues we have used or I have heard about being used are

1) “Watch for this one move”
2) “I will give you a motion where both hands pass in front of the throat”
3) Sometimes they look and nod
4) Sometimes they look at you their eyes bug out in fatigue and you end REAL quick
5) Sometimes the dancer will say “OUT”

Just my thoughts to begin the discussion

THis is Jivete's post moved from the other thread on this topic:

There's a lot of basic advice out there that most drummers follow just fine, don't change the tempo too quickly, watch dancers fatigue or boredom and adjust to follow, etc. The problems seem to come in when a drummer wants to change it up, which is totally understandable. Having drummed some myself I know how incredibly boring it is to beat out the same rhythm over and over. I took the following from www.gildedserpent.com and here's a link to the article www.gildedserpent.com/article...drum.htm . It's about drum solos, but really any time a drummer is adding fills or what not, it helps to follow this advice if only for the dancer's sanity.


"The best drummers will play recognizable and repeating patterns that the dancer can relate to, and adjust her movements to. There is nothing worse than a hot-shot drummer playing in a blaze of fury, as fast and with as many chops as he can, only to leave the dancer bewildered! This will only make both look unprofessional.

There are certain key elements to playing and dancing to a drum solo that will make for a successful performance. The first and foremost is that the dancer should listen to the music and beats being played! I have seen many newer dancers make the mistake of coming out to a drum solo with a preconceived routine in mind, only to find herself out of synch with the rhythms. The good drummer will play steady, musical solos which build, ebb and flow, usually reaching a final crescendo. One of the things a professional drummer will do is play repeating 4 to 8 beat phrases that the dancer can recognize, usually up to four times. This will get the dancer’s attention, and give her a few tries to nail the beat before moving on to the next change. Likewise, the drummer should watch the dancer closely to be able to follow her moves, and pick up on changes and cues she is giving. I like to focus in the hips, as that is where the intense rhythms seem to manifest. To anticipate the dancers next moves takes practice, experience, and intuition. There is a certain drum vocabulary that seems to match up with the dancers’ moves, although this is only a theory: The bass beat, or Dum, is the pulse of the rhythm, which grounds and drives the beat. The bass beat is usually marked by strong hip movements or hip drops. The high pitched strokes and rolls, Tek-ka, tend to equate with fast movements or shimmies, and the accented slap or pop goes well with a lock or stop. Again, this is only based on my observation, and may be a gross generalization, as I have no direct experience as a dancer. "

One thing I've noticed is when I dance to canned music I can almost allways predict what's coming, even if I've never heard the music. This tends to be lacking with drum circles. Now I think a lot of that is experience, but I know there's got to be some basic formulas that musicians follow.

Another problem tends to be the changing of rhythms mid-stream. Unless they're closely related, or planned, it just always seems to end badly. It would be better (I think) to cue for the change within the drum rhythm, and then make the switch. For live music, I've heard several oud players that will cue the drummer they're wrapping up and there's got to be a way to do it with drumming besides calling out. I don't know, I'm kind of rambling now.

To sum it up, this dancer would like, a predictable number of changes (4 is good), have a cue of some sort if changing the rhythm abruptly, vary the tempo to keep it interesting, vary intensity (make it soft, louder, less filled, more filled), add accents to keep it interesting, um, well those are the big ones. I think it matters less what rhythm a drummer plays (although some definitely have a "feel" to them), but how they're played.

First, I'll point out that a drum solo without a dancer is far different than a drum solo with a dancer. The first is a pure showcase for the drummer and the second is a showcase for the _dancer_. I think the drummer's task is to help the dancer look as good as possible.

That means that it's probably a good idea for the dancer and drummer to discuss it prior to performing it. Hash out such things as what tempos to use, how many tempo changes to expect, favorite rhythms, how to structure the whole thing, any specific signals the dancer may use to call for a change, etc.

That's with a single drummer or a duo experienced in playing together. When working with a circle of drummers, especially one that likely has some raw beginners playing, I think the dancer is limited to dealing with what can get played. There may not be more than a single rhythm change or tempo change. So, if a dancer really wants to plan something with the drummers, it may be a case of asking for only two or three to play for that dance.

The predictability of canned music versus live drumming comes in large part from phrasing. Most drummers picking up the instrument outside an organized teaching system don't get introduced to playing musical structures, beginning with phrases and moving up to sections and whole songs. For just sitting around a trancing out while playing, that's perfectly fine. For being predictable for dancing, well, it's not so good. It's something that can be learned,however, in small doses and getting good experience every step of the way.

A good rule of thumb to use when playing a drum solo for a dancer, or even a general "song" for a group of dancers, is the rule of 4: repeat each phrase four times. So, take a four beat rhythm as an example, say, maqsoum. Play a four-measure phrase (that is, four times through maqsoum) using a basic arrangement of it, then repeat that another three times. Each repeat can add a bit of embellishment, as long as the basic arrangement holds true. Well, that sixteen bars of music is about as long as a verse in a song, so the end of it is a natural place to change things up a bit.

When playing in a general group, each phrase can be embellished by a different drummer taking the lead. A phrase with the basic rhythm, then a phrase with one solo lead, another phrase with a solo lead, and the last phrase with a solo lead (each of them over everybody else playing the base rhythm). String together a few sections and you've got a whole dance.

Now, the phrases have to have a definite end. That means something other than just repeating the same thing played the first three. Using a maqsoum as an example, if the first three measures play "D T tkT D k T tk" then the last measure needs to provide an ending feeling such as "D T tkT D tk T -" and that provides the necessary break between phrases.

So, mini-breaks between phrases and 4 phrases to each section makes it much easier to predict what is likely to happen next for the dancers. It also makes it easier to toss the lead around among the drummers so everybody who wants to solo can do so without the whole thing sounding like chimpanzees pounding on logs.