I'm a Cancer. I'm suffering from withdrawal from a Scorpio. (Two actually) We (D and I) started talking then had a few dates, then he drops off the planet. Then we reconnected by his doing...just where we left off. He's a lifelong bachelor, I'm ending a 26 yr marriage. He started to distance himself again and I only learned he was in the hospital awaiting THR while his mother also passed away in the same hospital---from a response to a random text I initiated. I was there post surg... (driving to the next state north of me)to give him cards and rub his feet-- at his request.. I texted him a bit next post -op day. Only to have him ignore my texts the day of the funeral and day after. I let a few more days go by, then made my peace. I'm not afraid of his situation, My text said that "toilet chairs and what ever else with his condition didn't scare me, but cruelty does. [To sleep with me, tell me I'm an angel, talk of being soul mates and who knows where "this" will go]...to then be ignored... is cowardice and malice, whether you just buried your mother or not. A simple reply saying I need time and space or even Leave me alone, demonstrates more character than leaving me hanging and hurting does. " Again, no reply. I've dried those tears and demand self respect. But I'm still crying and still longing for him. It's him, not the idea of a relationship. I'm secure in being alone in fact. I made myself be independent from any relationship for over a year. I just don't understand the mixed messages.
To complicate things, I met him through another Scorpio. This guy was much younger ( M,32, I was 46)and we have a strong connection. We met just once over a year ago and wound up intimate. In my ignorance I really thought it was just to talk, but the desire was intense and before long that's what happened. We had talked for three months prior.. Immediately afterward I ended up cutting off the relationship...no more meeting in person then and there, because I wasn't ready. He wanted a relationship, spoke of the future together etc. And he should be looking for someone closer to his age wanting to have his babies....right? I couldn't rob him of that.
But we have stayed in touch off and on. We connect even though we don't make eye contact. I really have strong feelings for him even though we never had a fleshed out relationship. Is that absurd?
We were in sort of a triangle with this other guy (D) when he ended up in the hospital/buried his mother. We (M and I) texted and talked about the other guy. A month prior, I told him (M) I had seen him (D)a few times and liked him a lot. He seemed to be OK with that and never said anything negative, just told me he (D) was a good guy. Fast forward to when I asked (M) how he (D) was doing (cause he went to the wake) he (M)became hostile and angry with me. He told me I should ask him myself. I told him I was giving (D) space and asking him (M) because I didn't know where I stood with him. I was totally honest and he turned from one extreme to another in the way he talked to me.
I would have a relationship with him (M) in a heartbeat, but I can't because he's too young and where can it go? But we don't let go of each other and we tease and play and are also serious in our communications. I really care for him too. How warped is that? I don't know how not to care. I think it's this triangle thing that is awful now. I thought it would all be OK cause (M) and I never really continued and just accepted that it can't be. But I know we both desire it. (Maybe even more becaue of the triangle?) I held back to do what is right, but now am in a mess, emotionally. If D ever smartens up I could see a future, while M is still in my heart and mind hence the torment for both of us.
I really never wanted to be in this situation. I care for two of them and enjoy neither. And ...really ...only want ONE PERSON TO BE SOLD OUT FOR. Is this normal? I pride myself on being moral and honest , living by principle and convictions and not being ruled by my emotions and look at where I am---and this is worse than reality tv and tabloids. None of this was intentional. It hurts. We all are hurting. Now what?
To complicate things, I met him through another Scorpio. This guy was much younger ( M,32, I was 46)and we have a strong connection. We met just once over a year ago and wound up intimate. In my ignorance I really thought it was just to talk, but the desire was intense and before long that's what happened. We had talked for three months prior.. Immediately afterward I ended up cutting off the relationship...no more meeting in person then and there, because I wasn't ready. He wanted a relationship, spoke of the future together etc. And he should be looking for someone closer to his age wanting to have his babies....right? I couldn't rob him of that.
But we have stayed in touch off and on. We connect even though we don't make eye contact. I really have strong feelings for him even though we never had a fleshed out relationship. Is that absurd?
We were in sort of a triangle with this other guy (D) when he ended up in the hospital/buried his mother. We (M and I) texted and talked about the other guy. A month prior, I told him (M) I had seen him (D)a few times and liked him a lot. He seemed to be OK with that and never said anything negative, just told me he (D) was a good guy. Fast forward to when I asked (M) how he (D) was doing (cause he went to the wake) he (M)became hostile and angry with me. He told me I should ask him myself. I told him I was giving (D) space and asking him (M) because I didn't know where I stood with him. I was totally honest and he turned from one extreme to another in the way he talked to me.
I would have a relationship with him (M) in a heartbeat, but I can't because he's too young and where can it go? But we don't let go of each other and we tease and play and are also serious in our communications. I really care for him too. How warped is that? I don't know how not to care. I think it's this triangle thing that is awful now. I thought it would all be OK cause (M) and I never really continued and just accepted that it can't be. But I know we both desire it. (Maybe even more becaue of the triangle?) I held back to do what is right, but now am in a mess, emotionally. If D ever smartens up I could see a future, while M is still in my heart and mind hence the torment for both of us.
I really never wanted to be in this situation. I care for two of them and enjoy neither. And ...really ...only want ONE PERSON TO BE SOLD OUT FOR. Is this normal? I pride myself on being moral and honest , living by principle and convictions and not being ruled by my emotions and look at where I am---and this is worse than reality tv and tabloids. None of this was intentional. It hurts. We all are hurting. Now what?
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Sat, May 3, 2008 - 9:56 PM
Well, if you are open to others feelings & suggestions, I will offer one for the first guy / situation mentioned.
Remember and really respect that his mother JUST died, if I am reading & understanding what you wrote correctly.?
That is not a "normal", everyday situation and deserves respect & space. If someone was pressuring me through expectations that I return their calls or contact attempts right away or in a matter of days when someone I loved just passed away I would feel suffocated & like they are not respecting my situation and own emotional needs at the time.
Too much urgency perhaps in your expectancy of him he is feeling, given especially his situation.? Back off, respect his need for space & to grieve & process what he is experiencing.
That would show your respect, love & empathy in action, and that your concern is for him to be healthy & well more than not.
My 2 cents. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 4:28 PMThank you Aaron. Point well taken. He has a lot on his plate. His business and ability to be hands on, his ability to parent his youngest daughter while recovering, he can't drive yet I don't think etc. I fully comprehend all that. The last thing he needs is an obligation to me. My sticking point is that all he had to say was I need some time... say something. We had been talking. In a week all I had texted was "I'm thinking about you and hope the day goes well for you." on the day of the wake, cause I didn't know if he'd been discharged to rehab and even able to attend the wake. That didn't require a reply and that was deliberate on my part because I didn't want to be something else he had to take care of. Then at the end of the week , three days after the funeral, I sent the second. I think to ignore a simple text asking "How are you?"
was deliberately cruel. He had to know it would hurt me. He chose that response. I didn't call him or show up, I texted. In the hospital He had said he'd need a week. I waited that week. In the hospital, I asked him if he wanted me to start freezing him meals, he said yes... I felt I was respecting his needs and giving him space and that I was following his lead. I admit being left hanging strikes a nerve in me. That's my issue. Now I'm withdrawing...protecting my vulnerability. Rejection. He has dishes of mine. I've thought of sending post-paid packaging for him to pop them in the mail to return them to me. Childish I know. I haven't done it. I'm also concerned he may not be doing well emotionally and/or physically. Maybe he thinks he's doing me a favor. Mother's Day is coming. I don't know how NOT to care. I don't know if now we are both wounded and consequently will lose out on each other. I just know I can't do an emotional roller coaster relationship. If he's insensitive to to other's, I'd rather cut my losses now. I'd be willing to wait, if that is what he'd said he needed. Saying nothing....left me to imagine the worst, feeling hurt and confused. I cried. Then I said my peace. Perhaps I didn't respond as well as I might have. So I should just wait for him to heal? If he wants to reach me, he knows how. All my GF's say to leave him alone. So no text on Mother's Day??????
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 6:57 PM"I really never wanted to be in this situation. I care for two of them and enjoy neither. And ...really ...only want ONE PERSON TO BE SOLD OUT FOR. Is this normal? I pride myself on being moral and honest , living by principle and convictions and not being ruled by my emotions"
Sorry I'm not any help here. But out of curiosity what's your Moon sign and Venus sign?
I'm just wondering because there's some slight similarities of your situation with mine and my friend's situation. More the emotional aspect than the physical one (and I'm kind of comparing your relationship with M, in the way that my friend kind of relates to you to you and I relate to M) . My friend's a Cancer Sun, and I'm a Pisces Sun (and we're both Gemini Moons). We've had an ongoing 'friendship' (long-distance) for over a year and a half, when we really shouldn't. because I have another bf, and he's had a couple gf's throughout the time we've been friends. I'm pretty sure he loves me though (but he doesn't come out and say it, other than saying that he loves me as a friend), and I do love him. But he thinks he's too old for me (he's 33 and I'm 20) and he wants to get married and have children soon because he doesn't want to be 'too old' to have children. But he thinks I'm too young for that, and also the fact that he lives in Europe, he thinks it would just be too much for me to have to move over there and start my life all over over there. Which might be right, but he's not giving me the choice to decide for myself whether or not it would be too much for me. Plus he's told me before that we could be bf and gf if we lived closer to each other.
Like I said, sorry I'm no help though :) I just thought the way you were talking about M is similar to the way my friend thinks about me (I'm too young, he thinks it's best for me if i'm not with him, etc.). -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 7:08 PMdont move to europe.
you're too young to settle and make kids .
dont do it .
this is the future talking to you ...
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 7:22 PMlol I'm not going too.. but I think it's just kind of irritating (and sweet at the same time) how he's not letting me make that decision. He realizes that it would be really hard for me to move over there and get married right away and have babies lol... he said it's best for me if I don't do it.
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 8:36 PMI have no clue ! I am willing to learn though. How do I find out? All I know is I'm Cancer.
Back to my situation. I made matters worse. I contacted M. Asked him to meet me. We both drove half way. We reconnected. I said It is what it is. No strings attached. He asked if it were revenge for D. That's not my style. But rebound is definitely a factor. The difference is I have no expectations with him. With D I did. Then he tells me that he and D talked about me. He know D had stayed at my house, He knew I went to the hospital to massage his feet after he got out of surgery. He insisted I knew how close they were. I didn't. Then he says maybe he doesn't want a relationship with you, maybe he wants a younger girl. He was toying with my head big time. Then he says you'll probably see him again. I'm sitting there shaking my head telling him no. I'm done. No roller coaster for me. I can't do this triangle thing. In my mind I'm done with D. That is the only way I could resurrect and do anything with him. And I had already let him go, or I'd never have been able to see D. I wrestled with feeling like I was betraying him when I started seeing D...even though we never lived out our relationship. On my drive home he (M) texts me saying "you're still beautiful." I reply..."TY...You have a piece of my heart. " This morning he has "your soul is the one thing you can't compromise" from David Gray. We love him and communicated a lot over the last year and a half through our MySpace pages via the songs we'd put up. I know this is going to be divine trouble. I think M may have sabotaged my relationship with D. If he and D are so close...what king of a friend is he if he hooks up with me? I had told him that if D asked about him I would tell the truth. I don't know what M has said to D about me or our "relationship." I just don't want each time I see him to be an occasion for regret. I don't want him to fall for me and one day regret it, And I don't know how I feel about D. And now I'm wondering what I should feel for M. Is he a dark Scorp, who has been waiting for something like this to play out?
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Sun, May 4, 2008 - 8:56 PMI'm not sure if M is a dark Scorp or not... but I think anyone who has feelings for someone, and is also friends with the other person that their lover (I'm just using that term for lack of a better word) has feelings for would have hard feelings. And might even unknowingly try to sabotage the other person's relationship with you. Like you said, it's a love triangle, so it's very complicated.
As far as how to find out your Moon and Venus sign (and more), you can go here- www.alabe.com/freechart/
just put in your birth date info, and time of birth if you know it, and then your signs will come up :)
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 6:07 PMHeather, Thank you for that link. I'm not sure what to make of the info from my mini chart. I'm Scorpio rising, moon is in Virgo and Venus is in Gemini. How do you sort out and discern all that? BTW, I can't get a pic to post. I have a lot to learn! Thanks again for help and info. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 6:26 PMWell Venus in Gemini sometimes makes people fickle in love or sometimes have more than one lover at a time, I've heard anyway. Of course that's not always true. My Cancer friend also has his Venus (and Moon) in Gemini, and I think he might have that tendency.. I'm not positive though.
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 9:16 AMMy advice is to listen to yourself.
One of them isn't treating you the way you want to be treated. And the other you have rejected because of his age. (Personally, I think that's a silly reason, but it's yours and you own it).
It seem to me like it's time for you to get out and meet some new people. Stop focusing on what isn't working and find something that can. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 5:04 PMI couldn't agree with you more. I was with one man for more than 27 years. I feel like I'm coming out of a time warp. My social world came to a halt at 19 when I met him. Now nearly 47 and 6 children later I'm thrust into 2008 as a single woman. I have interest in the younger guy but have many apprehensions too. The other one...is more suited to me... especially where he is in life. A homeowner, a parent etc. But as lifelong bachelor, probably not going to be sold out for just one relationship at a time. I'm not sure what I want, or what I'm capable of. I could have a great time with the younger one and accept it for just that. I may....I have to sort out what I need and want and redefine my self. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 5:44 PMSounds like you have a fine handle on knowing what to do. And trust me, there's a lot of world out there to pick from. :).
Just one more tiny piece of advice - you don't have to figure it out before living it. You can live it, fuck it up some, and figure it out along the way. That's allowed. :).
Oh, and those people who think they know what you should want? They're all wrong. Including me. Don't trust any of us. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 11:09 PMwell said , teamnoir. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 9:27 AMI agree with Teamnoir. Age is meaningless in relationships. One of the best relationships I've ever had was with a woman who was 20 years older than me at the time. She taught me a lot about what it is to be a man (i was 19 at the time). I taught her a lot about how to not be a stick in the mud and have fun!
We loved each other very much and stayed together for quite a while till she moved away. We're still very close and she is one of the best friends i've ever had.
My $0.02... -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 12:14 PMYes I agree that age is meaningless in relationships.. One of my best friends is 57...and sometimes I forget how much older he is to me, cause we get along so well. He's aries with a good share of planets in earth & water.
Been involved with a scorpio man who is 13 years older than i am for 10 years now. Wouldn't change a thing, really.
Don't let hang ups or fear of people's opinions ruin what could be a great thing. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 1:09 PMI agree too with the age is meaningless idea too. But I know that you Sarah, and Ron are Pisces, and of course I am too (I'm not sure what Sun sign Teamnoir is though). So I wonder if it's kind of a Pisces tendency to think that way? Because my friend is a Cancer Sun and Laura is a Cancer sun too, and they both tend to think that age is a factor. Kind of like they are protecting the ones that they care for from making a 'bad decision' in a way. Maybe it's the Cancer protectiveness that kicks in lol. I know with my own friend, like I said before, he thinks it's for my own good for me not to be with him.. he thinks he's too old for me, he doesn't think my parents would approve, he thinks it would be too much for me to move over there to be with him, etc. But as a Pisces I'm a little more 'free and easy' thinking I guess lol. So those factors don't bother me as much as they do my friend. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 1:32 PMIn my heart I really believe that connection transcends any demographics. The fact that we kept in touch and I feel so connected to him without having been with him... defies logic I felt I was doing the right thing by not acting on desire, giving him opportunity to do the expected, natural thing... find someone 28 to get married and have babies. But here we are a year and a half later. Now I'm ready in some respects, but still worried about everyone else. I thought if I really cared for him and his best interests -I was demonstrating that by not acting on selfish desire. What's best for him... couldn't be me. I sent him an epistle saying maybe we should just decide to be friends and leave the physical part out of it. Then we could remain friends for a lifetime...I could screen his potential wife for him... =) He just kept saying he hasn't found the one. They are all young dumb whore in his opinion. He has no shortage of girls and women going after him either. But if we are together... to see the whites of each other's eyes... we can't stay separate, we mesh. It's intense. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 1:58 PMYes, I think I understand where you're coming from. I think my friend thinks similar to you too. In fact my friend said what you said here almost word for word- "I sent him an epistle saying maybe we should just decide to be friends and leave the physical part out of it. Then we could remain friends for a lifetime."
We never had a 'physical' relationship though (which I'm actually very glad about, because then it would be so much harder for me to just be friends with him).. but we had an intense 'online/long-distance' relationship, and almost as sexual as it can get for being long-distance lol :) But he told me we should stop that part of our relationship (the sexual part) because he said we'll just go crazy since we can't be together. So he told me we should just be friends, without the sexual stuff, because then we could also remain friends for a lot longer. And he has kept his 'end of the deal' up.. he's still my close friend, and we still chat every weekend. So I know he wasn't just telling me that to 'get rid of me' lol. And I have no doubt that he cares about me, he's proven it to me time and time again. And we have such an intense connection in so many ways it's unreal. I think for him, he might even be protecting himself from getting hurt. So he's trying to protect both of us. He might think that if I was physically with him, I'd end up cheating or looking elsewhere because I am so much younger than he is, etc. I know I wouldn't do that, but he might think it's a possibility. So that's one of the reasons I keep asking you questions, Laura.. I'm trying to understand the Cancer way of thinking lol :) Especially since some of the things you've said are similar to what my friend has said.
Sorry I'm no help to your problem though. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 7:07 PMHeather, It helps me just to have a place to vent. My circle doesn't understand how I can feel so strongly for someone without even having spent hours together, But we have a bond that defies words. I too am trying to figure out how I think as a Cancer! I think rethink and think too much . I'm at a place in my life where I don't want to lose another day in obligation and emptiness. Why wouldn't I let him love me? The feelings are genuine and positive. We compel and challenge each other to grow and explore who we are.It could be very good. I have to ask myself if I have sabotaged the potential. Why am I more comfortable giving than receiving? I want him in my life, but I put the brakes on it and don't know if he'll risk again. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Tue, May 6, 2008 - 7:48 PMI can understand a bond that defies words, because me and my friend also have that. I felt a connection with him right from the start.. unlike anything I've ever felt with any other guy (including my bf).
As far as you not letting him love you... do you think subconsciously you might be afraid he might leave you someday to be with someone younger who wants to have his babies? I know you mentioned that you don't want to deprive him of that, like it wouldn't be fair to him. I do see your point of view, but maybe he'll be happy with you and having no kids of his own. Maybe being with you would make him happier than anything, even if it might mean 'sacrificing' having children.
I have another question for you... you were saying before that you encourage him to date other women. Do you feel any jealousy if or when he does date other women? Or if you don't now, do you think you might if he had another lady come into his life that 'replaced' you? I mean he loved her whole-heartedly and had that same bond with her as he does with you and didn't have any romantic feelings for you anymore. I'm sure you would be happy for him as long as he's happy. But do you think you'd have any regret that you didn't 'let him love you' when he wanted to? -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 8:31 AMLaura, your feelings do not lie. Trust me, you will kick yourself if you do not act on them. Maybe it's a Piscean trait to believe that everything can work out for the best. Trust your intuition, follow your desires. Don't put thoughts into someone elses head, or put words into someone elses mouth. Find out for yourself by asking.
Take it from someone who has kicked himself for not following through on what could have been a wonderful relationship. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 12:52 PM"Don't put thoughts into someone elses head, or put words into someone elses mouth. Find out for yourself by asking. "
My thoughts exactly :)) And don't decide what you think will be best for them.. because they might not think it really is best for them. Sure it might seem like the 'better', more logical, and 'safer' decision, but it won't always be best for everyone.
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Wed, May 7, 2008 - 3:10 PMWell we're messaging. I told him to talk to me in real time. We'll see what happens. Shall I keep you posted? We need to get what has transpired over a year and a half out and most recently with this triangle. I need to do this for myself and for him. I don't want to live with regret for having NOT given it a chance. Thanks for your support and encouragement. -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 3:56 AMUpdate...The D man and I have exchanged our last communication. At least I have closure. He very eloquently apologized for leaving me hanging, and then proceeded to explain his need to end our involvement. Basically it came down to my being in another state and my "availability." That translates to my four kids at home. I feel much better because at least he validated my feelings. It was a mutual caring for each other and he gave "us" careful consideration. He ended it with the same character and integrity that drew me to him to begin with. I still feel privileged to have known him.
M, and I are back to the same non-existence. i feel drawn to him and part of it is rebound, part of it is knowing I have closure with D and won't be part of a triangle. I am resisting contacting him. I believe he tried to sabotage D and me. D assured me his decision wasn't based on anything M had said. I do believe him because he is is own man and wise and mature. But I'm also certain M stuck his nose in cause he had the advantage and it bothered him to know D was intimate with me. M was hurt by me when I put the brakes on us a year and a half ago. My getting involved with a friend of his, I'm certain, affected him. I think I told you we communicate through songs we put up on our pages. He added Fleetwood Mac, silver spring. It lends itself to not wanting to know about a lover, also saying...I could have loved you but you would not let me... Maybe some day we will give each other a chance...in real time. He's moving to his condo at the beach this weekend. This is his wild season! He had said to call him once he's moved, but I don't want to play into his hand any more than I already have. What I've learned from this experience with D is that I still have a deep seated wound of abandonment in me. I knew it was there, but thought I'd conquered it . I have a tendency to latch on strong and not let go. I live out that crab persona! I care too much too soon. I equate need for love. I pour out myself to others and people often take...yet I don't receive. I have difficulty asking for what I want let alone receiving. So I'm keenly aware that time alone is necessary. I have wanted to do a missions trip, always looking to give to others in need. I need to give back to myself. But I had an epiphany. In telling M who's looking for a charity for a cause to donate to via an event he wants to organize, I asked him what an issue was that is close to his heart. That caused me to ask myself the same question? Instead of looking for some grandiose cause outside of myself, I chose to look within.
I'm ending a 27 year marriage. I'm a survivor of abuse...emotional abuse. I was with someone with NPD for 28 years. I'm coming out of that and I want to educate and empower other women. I have five daughters and one son. They have suffered as well. I want to break the cycle for us and others. So I'm going to channel my efforts in that direction. I love to write. You have to write what you know. I still have to use my skills as a massage therapist, trainer and now student studying to be a physical therapy assistant to put food on the table, but I'm not going to put off my dream of writing and getting published till "some day." I have to do it...that and a line of greeting cards for divorcing people...cause there is a market out there and I have sarcasm and wit and humor ...amidst all my pain and suffering as well! -
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Re: Relationship Inconsistencies
Tue, May 13, 2008 - 10:26 AMThanks for the update! It sounds like you're doing what's best for you (and probably everyone involved), and like you're more confident about what you want to do with your life now :)
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