It seems like every mystical/esoteric school wants to claim some lineage dating back thousands of years, apparently to give it some legitimacy. What's with this? Are we supposed to believe that people today are incapable of figuring out magick? Are we to be ashamed of learning magick from outside sources? Or is it part of the "true religion" syndrome that seeks to present itself as more authoritative than the others? This mystery school to which I belong claims an unbroken lineage going back to King Solomon. As romantic an idea as that sounds, I have trouble believing it. From everything I can discern, it seems to me that they draw from the same three sources as almost every other modern esoteric school: Gurdjieff, Theosophy, and the Golden Dawn. So why try to obscure that by claiming you got those ideas from some ancient lineage? It's rather frustrating when you're trying to find spiritual growth and enlightenment, and you encounter so much ego and deception from the very people who are supposed to be helping you attain those things.
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Portland
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Re: Lineage
Thu, February 28, 2008 - 5:18 PMHistorians generally agree that King Solomon was a fictional character.
I take this lineage claims as a sort of creation myth. It's a poetic way of citing sources. -
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Re: Lineage
Thu, February 28, 2008 - 6:26 PM"Mystery schools" that make these dubious claims of lineage earn nothing but disdain from me.
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Unsu...
Re: Lineage
Thu, February 28, 2008 - 10:54 PMTo me, Magick is something we are, something we must remember that we are. There is nothing to learn really. The teachers do not teach, but guide us back to our memory of our true selves. All these thories and traditions is but other beings sharing their journeys. I find it entertianing, but my slogan is take whats meaningful and leave the rest. I create my own reality, my own mystery, my own tradition. -
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Re: Lineage
Fri, February 29, 2008 - 8:09 AMI really like that... thank you.... -
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Re: Lineage
Fri, February 29, 2008 - 1:27 PMI see this same perversion of a very good principle in pretty much every religion, too. In principle, a spiritual tradition/heritage could be valuable; in reality and practice, it is often meaningless or perverted to create an illusion of authority. It can be used as a form of manipulation.
However, if we do believe in the consciousness of the beings with whom we interact, these beings will also have knowledge of the histories/people with whom they have dealt. Is it not then something of value? On the flipside, it could be a matter of peril if there has been any bad blood, betrayals, sparring, renunciations, exploitations, etc..
interesting issue...
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Re: Lineage
Fri, February 29, 2008 - 1:28 PMalthough lying to people in order to gain their trust is reprehensible...
there does seem to be a long tradition of various schools, orders, etc.
using this as a method of 'tricking' us into a state of open-ness to the Mystery.
it is kind of like the channeling gimmick...
i do not take it at face value (although i do not need to disbelieve)
i see it as a way to prepare the mind for new possibilities...
a role-playing game meant to evoke parts of us that are child-like
and imprint-vulnerable.
but once we step outside of the circle in which we have suspended disbelief,
me must resume our skepticism and the ability to question our experience.
the true lineage is contained in the nuclei of our cells and is written in the four holy letters of the Name
ADNI=I, D.N.A.
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Re: Lineage
Fri, February 29, 2008 - 2:39 PMI do agree that it is important to feel out whether someone's statement about thier lineage is relatively accurate, but I also do believe that lineage is very important. I do martial arts and it is the same thing. Where did this come from? how long has it been around and has it been time tested. Think about accupuncture. Its been around 1500 years, most of the kinks have probably been worked out. On the opposite side, many western drugs that seemed to be miracle drugs 20 years ago now are found to cause cancer or heart disease or... Things need time to work out the kinks, which is why I am suspect of channeled teachings or some magickal system someone came up with because of thier guides or "expereince". Do we really know the effects of the work, or new channeled modalities or...?
I suppose I tend to find that works get more watered down the farther it gets from the source. As people mix this shamanic tradition and this magical tradition, then adjust this ritual to "taste" and this ritual to "taste". What do we end with? There are shamanic and magical traditions that have been doing things in a similar way for a very long time. Why is that? Maybe they have worked out the kinks? maybe they do it that way because it works?
At the end of the day, of course, the most important thing is whether the stuff "works".
just my oppinion,
Shawn -
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Re: Lineage
Sat, March 1, 2008 - 4:14 PMthere are bodies corporeal and incorporeal, terrestrial and celestial.
If we truly believe in the linieage of the soul in a way that mirrors the migration of flesh, it would indeed all be traced to one Father through many fathers.
The concept of evolution is challenged in that very thought--that lineage doesn't matter or shouldn't. Perhaps the revulsion to the touting of lineage lies in where we put our faith--past, present, future.
I like a relative (relational) perspective. If the I or i is small or large, then time and space must cooperate. Lineage only matters in a related context.
The Magus doesn't fear because the will is perfected in Love. That is to say, I say, let them have their heritage. If they want to share, we can all share in Love. If not, Love is never undone, deflected, thwarted, or stalled.
Again, I'm seeing Emerson: "Standing on the bare ground, my head bathed by the blithe air, and uplifted into infinite space, all mean egotism vanishes. I become a transparent eyeball-I am nothing; I see all; the currents of the Universal Being circulate through me-I am part or particle of God.The name of the nearest friend sounds then foreign and accidental: to be brothers, to be acquaintances-master or servant, is then a trifle, and a disturbance."
But this vanity that screeches against the genetic disposition and aristrocratic melee is as much an illusion as anything. Sometimes, however, vanity and illusions are the vehicles of knowledge.
Love
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Re: Lineage
Sat, March 1, 2008 - 4:36 PMoops. I apologize for the multiple posts. I didn't think they were appearing.
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Re: Lineage
Thu, March 20, 2008 - 1:40 PMDo what tho Wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
“Those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it” . . . We can use the past to see the truth of the present . . . no society is free from the mis-truths of their era . . . We can make stuff up, we can reinvent the wheel and make the same mistakes, or we can take what appears to be the truth from the past, see how it applies to our present truth, and make our own . . .
Love is the Law, Love under Will.
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Re: Lineage
Thu, May 1, 2008 - 2:10 PMBlood before the flood
ikons for idols
even my statues breathe
Angel of Death's given me breath.
Thru the abyss I never miss.
Death's kiss.
I am fifth generation American Illuminati; the GrandSon of Allah... my lineage goes all the way back. I must say that I am disappointed with the outer orders. The issue of authority is one of competition, legitimacy is found thru a process of self discovery... lies are created by daemons challenging you to look within. The masses are still ignorant, and always will be... sheer the sheep, tend to the flock. Nothing new under the sun.
