Pastafarians will love this documentary!:-)
I just returned from viewing the documentary Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. It is a documentary featuring Ben Stein. I highly recommend everyone see this film, regardless of your position on darwinism. The focus is on the ID movement, but it applies to freedom of speech in general and makes a compelling case that the scientific community is squelching academic freedom. Numerous examples are given and the persecution does not end with creationists and ID folks but includes anyone who dares speak or write fairly on the subject.
For those of you who are Dawkins fans who feel he is the epitome of logic and rational thought, you will be shocked at what an ass he makes of himself in this film. Stein (from memory): "So, you believe there is a ninety nine percent chance god doesn't exist, why not say 97%? Dawkins, well I don't know, I don't think it can be quantified.
Stein: ok then, how about 50%?
Dawkins: No, it is vastly more improbable than that?
Stein: 75%?
Dawkins (irritated): I have no way of knowing!
Stein: So you really cannot give it a number?
Dawkins: No, I have no idea
(paraphrase)
His discussion about abiogenesis ran about the same. Dawkins admitting that he has no idea whatsoever how life originated and even admits that there may be a strong argument for design by extra terrestrial life! (atheists always sound like they have no odd beliefs until you let them speak for a awhile:-)).
The most amazing admission by Dawkins was where he stated that an understanding of evolution (he pronounces it properly with his british accent as evil-ution) leads one inevitably to atheism. He further admits that atheists court the liberal christians in support of darwinism in order to divide Christians. "My book was a long awaited full frontal assault upon Christianity" he openly states.
The movie makes a strong connection between Nazism and Darwinism, explaining that while Nazism cannot be explained solely on the basis of Darwinism, it could not have existed without it! And graphic images and testimony of the eugenics movement in Germany and the U.S. are provided as evidence of the connection of science with murder!
Much more could be said about this film, but I suggest you see it for yourself, it is humorous and thougth provoking at the same time and will no doubt infuriate Dawkins, Eugenie Scott, Grim, Rene and the entire darwinist establishment. Dawkins has already responded to it on his web site: richarddawkins.net/article,...-Dawkins.
Stein makes it clear that Dawkins was not quoted out of context and he was paid well for his interview! I hope so, I would hate to think he made an ass out of himself for nothing:-)
I just returned from viewing the documentary Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed. It is a documentary featuring Ben Stein. I highly recommend everyone see this film, regardless of your position on darwinism. The focus is on the ID movement, but it applies to freedom of speech in general and makes a compelling case that the scientific community is squelching academic freedom. Numerous examples are given and the persecution does not end with creationists and ID folks but includes anyone who dares speak or write fairly on the subject.
For those of you who are Dawkins fans who feel he is the epitome of logic and rational thought, you will be shocked at what an ass he makes of himself in this film. Stein (from memory): "So, you believe there is a ninety nine percent chance god doesn't exist, why not say 97%? Dawkins, well I don't know, I don't think it can be quantified.
Stein: ok then, how about 50%?
Dawkins: No, it is vastly more improbable than that?
Stein: 75%?
Dawkins (irritated): I have no way of knowing!
Stein: So you really cannot give it a number?
Dawkins: No, I have no idea
(paraphrase)
His discussion about abiogenesis ran about the same. Dawkins admitting that he has no idea whatsoever how life originated and even admits that there may be a strong argument for design by extra terrestrial life! (atheists always sound like they have no odd beliefs until you let them speak for a awhile:-)).
The most amazing admission by Dawkins was where he stated that an understanding of evolution (he pronounces it properly with his british accent as evil-ution) leads one inevitably to atheism. He further admits that atheists court the liberal christians in support of darwinism in order to divide Christians. "My book was a long awaited full frontal assault upon Christianity" he openly states.
The movie makes a strong connection between Nazism and Darwinism, explaining that while Nazism cannot be explained solely on the basis of Darwinism, it could not have existed without it! And graphic images and testimony of the eugenics movement in Germany and the U.S. are provided as evidence of the connection of science with murder!
Much more could be said about this film, but I suggest you see it for yourself, it is humorous and thougth provoking at the same time and will no doubt infuriate Dawkins, Eugenie Scott, Grim, Rene and the entire darwinist establishment. Dawkins has already responded to it on his web site: richarddawkins.net/article,...-Dawkins.
Stein makes it clear that Dawkins was not quoted out of context and he was paid well for his interview! I hope so, I would hate to think he made an ass out of himself for nothing:-)
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 1:54 AM(atheists always sound like they have no odd beliefs until you let them speak for a awhile:-)).
I like that line! I'll check out the link you posted... after enjoying this nice sunny day.
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 8:54 AMcan't get the page...error report -
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Unsu...
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 9:15 AMsorry Bilhelm. I removed the period and it works now.
richarddawkins.net/article,...d-Dawkins
enjoy the day... -
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 2:46 AMI did enjoy the day, at that! I went for a nice bike ride along the Ammersee..
OK, I found the article, but I was looking for the film, or at least an outtake. Now after looking at the page, and reading a bit of the blogs n stuff, I don't want to look much further, for reasons similar to what the other tribe members wrote. Namely, that vitriolic communications are not where it's at.
I don't think His Noodliness approves. -
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Unsu...
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 5:26 AM
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 1:27 PMMuch more could be said about this film, but I suggest you see it for yourself, it is humorous and thougth provoking at the same time and will no doubt infuriate Dawkins, Eugenie Scott, Grim, Rene and the entire Darwinist establishment.
Atheist infuriating Christians; Christians infuriating atheist either way this is a non effective way of communicating one's views in a manner that will open the opposing persons to listen. At the start of your review my mind opened to the concept of freedom of ideas though I do disagree with ID. By the end of reading this post I made up my mind not to pay money to see it. Proving Dawkins can look lame in a given moment does not lesson the beliefs I came to years before I discovered Dawkins, he is one voice not the leader of a movement. -
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sat, April 26, 2008 - 6:34 PMSassfire's point about Richard Dawkins and others - including Pastafarians - infuruating non-believers is spot on.
Animals - man or beast - usually react pretty aggressively when tracked into a corner. And like the other Big Issues of politics, abortion, political affiliation, taxes, etc. resolution is probably *not* going to happen in a forum such as this. So I don't think we'll be seeing an abatement of growling and name tossing subside any time soon.
What *is* great about a thread like this aside from the great humor is that it can be a good venue to exchange information from other quarters.
Lately the best source of howl worthy Christ-o-holic humor seems to be gushing from the Creation(ist) Museum locate dsomewhere up in Knuckledrag, Kentucky. A nice listing of skeptical reviews can be found here:
tinyurl.com/2z7s56
The site has done a nice job of garnering opinions and very grounded critiques of this exercise in de-evolutionary thought processes.
Have a look. Have fun reading.
Definitely worthy of bookmarking.
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Unsu...
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 5:59 AM"Anytime somebody tries to use the Second Law of Thermodynamics to refute evolution, you should realize you're dealing with somebody who doesn't understand science or who is a liar."
Well now that is one way to silence the opposition. Abiogenesis a necessary precurser to evolution is a clear violation of the 2nd law. Evolution could not have begun without abigogenesis. Evolution believers try to circumvent this problem by speaking of open and closed systems. But they are wrong for doing so. Dr John Ross of Harvard University states:
… there are no known violations of the second law of thermodynamics. Ordinarily the second law is stated for isolated systems, but the second law applies equally well to open systems. … There is somehow associated with the field of far-from-equilibrium thermodynamics the notion that the second law of thermodynamics fails for such systems. It is important to make sure that this error does not perpetuate itself.
John Ross, Chemical and Engineering News, July 7, 1980, p. 40
Increased order, complexity and information necessary for evolution to occur are prohibited by the second law. Evolution is a non starter and natural selection and mutations are impotent mechanisms for producing ameoba to man evolution.
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Unsu...
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 5:31 AM"At the start of your review my mind opened to the concept of freedom of ideas though I do disagree with ID."
which is the entire point of the movie, a must see.
"By the end of reading this post I made up my mind not to pay money to see it."
Your call, but by closing your mind to all views you run the risk of remaining ignorant of a major issue of our day.
"Proving Dawkins can look lame in a given moment does not lesson the beliefs I came to years before I discovered Dawkins, he is one voice not the leader of a movement. "
He is a leading voice for evolution and atheism and one of their best spokesman along wiht Eugenie Scott. Dawkins always looks lame to those who understand evolution/creation/ID. This movie just brings this out to many who have been affected by his view but never heard them from the horses mouth. -
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 6:04 AMMy belief is that contrasting, even conflicting ideas are not mutually exclusive. We just sometimes cast them that way. Just because fundamentalists, or absolutists, say it has to be like this or like that doesn't mean the reality has to exclude one or the other.
Evolution does not verify Atheism, Intelligent Design, or anything else. Trying to prove that "God" either 1) exists, or 2) does not exist, is a fool's pastime. Creationism though, is a crock of ignorance.
Thanks Dan for the links n stuff. -
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Unsu...
Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 5:14 PM"My belief is that contrasting, even conflicting ideas are not mutually exclusive."
a universal law of logic is the law of non contradiction. Mutually exclusive propositions cannot be both true at the same time. If you believe that they can Billhelm, then it is impossible for you to learn anything. You cannot be an atheist believer in God. A car parked at point A cannot be not parked at point A.
Evolution is an atheistic view of the universe. While it is possible to be a theist and cling to evolution, it is not necessary to do so since evolution is a naturalistic, atheistic, mechanistic view of the origin of living things. I agree that proving that God does not exist is a fools pastime because only a fool would deny that which is self evident. Unfortunately, the conundrum for theists is that if you don't rebuke a fool he becomes wise in his own eyes, and if you debate him you run the risk of becoming like him. -
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Re: Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed
Sun, April 27, 2008 - 11:12 PMI disagree with some of your assumptions. Unfortunately, I will have to continue the conversation at another point, maybe tomorrow or so...
No offense, just gotta run.
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