ok I thought I would do the shipping container for a home, I must have looked at fifty of them and each one had its problems or on some hazards. The most dangerous problems for a living being was that the plywood was the industrial formaldehyde stuff, a couple had been resin caked with who knows what and then I found paint testing lead positive on others. With no sensible ventilation you could over time become a zombie living in one. Most have been used for years and often they get packed with industrial garbage we don't want to know exists and who knows what has soaked in. I am definitely not against using them but living in them can be economically suicide. Better off living in the open and having these as storage.
ok I trolled that one pretty good, huh?.,.. so here's my food for thought offering. What about using them for structural bulk and storage. Basically you live outside underneath and build off the container bulk. I think this would be cool with three of them. Perhaps two parallel with one crossing on top. Put up a roof and walls and you've created some usable real space. I was really thinking of doing this with straw bales to really keep costs down. Any further notions?
ok I trolled that one pretty good, huh?.,.. so here's my food for thought offering. What about using them for structural bulk and storage. Basically you live outside underneath and build off the container bulk. I think this would be cool with three of them. Perhaps two parallel with one crossing on top. Put up a roof and walls and you've created some usable real space. I was really thinking of doing this with straw bales to really keep costs down. Any further notions?
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Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 10:58 AMWe were just talking about this in a related thread.
tribes.tribe.net/cheapshel...9fbf4f5736
This is why I've always planned to personally inspect any container before purchase (not that easy, since ports are a couple of hundred miles from me, but certainly possible). I planned to inquire about what materials had been shipped in the container, but who's to say if you'd get any honest answers.
<<<the plywood was the industrial formaldehyde stuff>>>
What, exactly, do you mean re "the industrial formaldehyde stuff"? And how did you identify this? I've always been told that all particle board (not necessarily plywood) is treated with formaldehyde, so the stuff is everywhere. It certainly does take years to stop off-gassing. I've been told that sitting the particle board outside for a week or to, to let it air out, helps somewhat. Not an option if it's already in your shipping container floor, obviously...but wouldn't that depend on the age of the container? It doesn't off-gas forever. Lead paint-- you're talking about paint on the exterior of the container?
So what does everyone else think about this? How do other people deal with this? I posted that question in the other thread, got no responses....
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Unsu...
Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 11:53 AMyou def. want to steam clean them real good when you get one. pay attention to the wood of course.or you could just rip up the ply and replace with new.
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Unsu...
Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Thu, January 10, 2008 - 12:05 PMWhat about permanently sealing the floor with a 2-part epoxy coating like that made for garage floors? It is mixed and then rolled on with a paint roller. Once in place it is permanent and unlikely to scuff off or wear through even under hard use. I'm sure a SERIOUS respirator would be needed while applying it - not one of those placebo Walmart dust masks. -
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Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 1:29 AMthoughtful responses, I hope I can cover them here, but it's the other end of my post I wish to continue with...that's the notion of rather than being inside a unforgiving box, build-up around it and use it for structure which would create healthier and more comfortable living spaces.
Robert--didn't quite find the specific talk on hazards in that link, but yes formaldehyde is a big problem in plywood. It is the basis of the glue. Some industrial plywood has been regulated out of both EU and US markets for housing construction. There is a particular kind of plywood that I know of to stay away from it's made with a reddish tint glue and I was told that it is massed produces in China and India on large scale. I saw that reddish tinted plywood in a group of containers that I was looking at, they all came together from the port of Singapore.
I thought I was extremely lucky in finding a group of eight containers that were up for auction, but then decided against it.
The containers that I was looking at weren't made in the states, they were Asian. Nowadays everybody has glues that are mostly soy based I believe and are safer. Remember many of the containers you get aren't new, they might be from older not regulated production methods.
I remember five years ago or so that there were a lot of warnings on high formaldehyde plywood. The key reason that this is a problem to me is that you really can't ventilate a shipping container easily especially since the ceiling is low and at the same height all the way back.
I'm betting that most container housing doesn't do much with venting and for the most part suffers with the poor space configuration.
arka... whole new floor? yeah but....
Robert... you're worrying me cover a toxic with toxic? what respirator you been wearing? I've used those epoxies on a small scale and wouldn't even think of putting them in an enclosed space. Two part epoxies worry me cause they keep interacting chemically long after they are applied, some eventually turn to dust as the chemical process finally either hardens it to the point it shatters or it hardens to the point it is no longer flexible. Yeah this is ten, twenty years down the road and we'll be gone. But I don't want to use them cause I'm constantly running into things needing to be tossed cause the materials used have met their match or are improper. Inert is inert and is my primary consideration nowadays.
OK so what about building around the containers. I see containers as a solid structure that could be used for mechanicals and good storage. Using the containers to create nice open space which would then be modified into a living space. Obviously one container doesn't work unless your making a lean to. But three or four could help with enclosing quite abit of space. Five could make a nice multi level space and an easy roof. Easily more than 1500 sq ft. Then you'd have actual adjoined closed space created by the inside of the containers. The buildout materials used could be moved with the container itself. So you get the containers in a port city, fill them with less expensive building materials and then transport them directly and effectively to remote sites.
One crucial thing is making a winch to get one of the containers high enough to move it atop the others.
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Unsu...
Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 8:19 AMarka... whole new floor? yeah but....
it only took me about four hours and $100 do to mine singlehandedly. -
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Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Fri, January 11, 2008 - 10:58 PMaka-yeah, just getting rid of it can be the best, but it becomes the problem of first we replace this then tear out that...
Altho I must agree putting in a new floor would be perhaps one of the easiest/best improvements. You leave yourself a mechanicals channel along one side and additional air intake.
Since it sounds like you have a container you are living in what notions do you have with trying to fit the size and space constraints inherent to containers into the way you normally use space.I guess it goes back to my question...would you want to live inside or alongside your container? -
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Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Sat, January 12, 2008 - 11:46 AMAm I the only one who is wondering if the 'alongside' approach is basically turning a shipping container into a very expensive, single 'wall' for one side of your shack? Could the same thing not be accomplished for a lot less money with, say, *a WALL*? lol -
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Unsu...
Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Sat, January 12, 2008 - 12:20 PMany wall you build wouldn't be as strong, durable nor have the storage space. review some of the links that illustrate many structures built with this concept.
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Unsu...
Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Sat, January 12, 2008 - 12:17 PMa container is larger than a class A motorhome. they are wider and higher. many people live fulltime in motorhomes. so i don't see what space problems you refer to. only constraints i see is with peoples imagination.
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Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Sat, January 12, 2008 - 11:11 PM<<<would you want to live inside or alongside your container?>>>
Not many structures are as strong and weatherproof as the shipping container---they can support at least 45,000-50,000 lbs (remember, they're routinely stacked 6-8 high on ships). I still plan to purchase at least two of them for conversion to living space ; they'll provide additional space, connected to a primary dwelling. I'm just concerned about the hazardous materials aspect. I wonder why we don't hear more about this issue, and how people resolved it in their own container conversions. -
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Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 1:02 AMI definitely plan on having one, as a storage space and also disaster contingency on my remote property.... But I wouldn't even consider the idea of NOT replacing the flooring, and NOT steam blasting the interior and re-sealing with a very thick non-porous layer of protection between me, and the crate's unknown history. -
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Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 4:57 AMOk, a couple of notions got thru to me and I'd be eager to hear more. I'm thinking that a couple of folks might not quite caught the gist of what I'd like to do myself...perhaps because my writing style is a bit cryptic. I have been thinking of using 3 or 4 containers to create a larger space and don't want to depend on the limited narrow corridor like stucture that you get from the container but purposely create a usable open space. It is the open space where i prerfer to live and the container space would be both structural and protective space.
So if you place two containers in parallel twenty feet apart. Then stack either one or two more containers across the gap, secure them down. What you got is basically a whole bunch of space to build out and frame walls, entrance ways, windowed areas, and a fairly decent start on putting up an easy roof. I'd be considering a simple foundation probably just beam, a flooring mechanism for the space created and then a nice grouping of complementary earth build ups turning the gaps into architecturally feasible structure.
The transport issue was crucial to me...I don't want to make a hundred trips to the hardware store especially since the site I'm looking at is 35 miles from home depot and it seems as tho the prices are pretty high. So I'd want to do this in a way that I use all the possible fright space created by the containers to hold the very materials I need on site (yeah planning) further there's timing cause I'll need to order stuff that has perhaps a month or two lag on delivery. At least I'll have a container right there on the yard most probably waiting for my shipments. One example of this is I'll probably end up ordering bamboo flooring..I'm not really fond of the fact that it will be coming from halfway around the world but it will be nice to just be able to get it in a loading zone without all the costs.
I am really trying to get away from the space in the container and create a space outside the container. Obviously I'm also gaining a real positive which is the space in the container which I said was storage and mechanical. In that I meant kitchen and bathroom, nice little workshop, etc. I happen to really like living out of a nice open room and would really appreciate the twenty by twenty room with a high ceiling. To me this is kinda a no-brainer consideration and I apologize that it ended up being such a convoluted way of getting to this point.
As an artist what I really what to discuss is how to get the architectural considerations into this so that I can capitalize both visually and in usablity for my effort. Yeah I know that basically what we all would want, sorry. The bad things of containers got talked out pretty quick, so I'll have to broach a new topic for all the further points. -
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Unsu...
Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 6:47 AMif you check out the links in this thread you'd find that people are already doing what you suggest. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.Unsu...
Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 6:47 AMooops not this thread but the shipping container thread. -
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Unsu...
Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Sun, January 13, 2008 - 7:02 AMSOB! i can't beleive how many of the links are dead. whats up wit daaaat? anyhow i went and fetched one for you and put it in our album. there were more. just start at the begining of the container living thread and follow out all the links. many examples of different ways to do what you want.
but take note. the containers are 8 ft. wide. so 20 footers will only yield a 14x14 atrium. you'll need 40 footers which yield a 26x26 atrium. -
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Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Tue, January 15, 2008 - 4:57 AMok I did find much stuff of interest...thank you.
To some degree I'd say I'm posting in the wrong topic...
Back to this topic....
Most of the really terrible hazards are those going from big economy ports to less developed ones. Traders aren't going to be trying to ship waste products to the US or Europe. They are filling the containers with stuff they can sell...it's the return trip or trips that gets packed with all the stuff that's worth disposing a long way away. Non-considerate richer people find really bogus things are often worth imposing on other less fortunate..
It's probably not very often that our ports open up a container with who knows what and find the need to try and sell it all to the highest bidder. But I can imagine there are serious cover-ups and and very serious offenses of regulations...its all part of the game. Currently there's been a quite a bit of news from Italy about some of their waste handling Mafia problems, quite a bit of their toxic waste is said to be stored in shipping containers in storage yards with huge unpaid fee-bills and the stacked 6 up and all waiting to go. -
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Re: Shipping containers...the bad things
Tue, January 15, 2008 - 10:24 AM>Currently there's been a quite a bit of news from Italy about some of their waste handling Mafia problems, quite a bit of their toxic waste is said to be stored in shipping containers in storage yards with huge unpaid fee-bills and the stacked 6 up and all waiting to go.>
The same is probably true of Jersey and NY.
I wonder what's sitting in the for-sale containers in Norfolk VA.
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