Wolves and Humans have a very similar system. Alphas are leaders, and they rule by physical coercion and threat of bodily harm. On the net, Alphas still manage to get packs of people to do what they want by means of social threat and social harm.
Betas are the direct followers of alphas, and with wolves two or three betas directly flank the alpha in pack confrontations, or, follow the alpha while stalking prey.
Deltas are the nerds of pack society, the pack outcaste. They tend to orbit the pack from a distance, and while hunting, cut off the preys escape route.
Betas are the direct followers of alphas, and with wolves two or three betas directly flank the alpha in pack confrontations, or, follow the alpha while stalking prey.
Deltas are the nerds of pack society, the pack outcaste. They tend to orbit the pack from a distance, and while hunting, cut off the preys escape route.
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California
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Re: Pack psychology
Thu, September 28, 2006 - 2:24 PMThen there are ROGUES who want nothing to do with the damn pack. Guess which click I'm from... -
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Re: Pack psychology
Thu, September 28, 2006 - 2:27 PMtechnically spawn, that makes you a far orbit delta. You are in good company, i am there also. My bet is you can play a good alpha or beta if you want 2. -
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Re: Pack psychology
Mon, October 2, 2006 - 4:01 PMAlphas are leaders, and they rule by physical coercion and threat of bodily harm. On the net, Alphas still manage to get packs of people to do what they want by means of social threat and social harm.
Alphas use domination tactics, ad hominem attacks, and other forms of social and verbal attack to establish dominance. Betas to some extent follow the lead of alphas out of fear
of reprisal, or out of fear of the alpha or the whole pack.
Betas are the direct followers of alphas, and with wolves two or three betas directly flank the alpha in pack confrontations, or, follow the alpha while stalking prey.
Betas in human society often do not consciously realize that they are participating in the pack psychology game, and very often simply assume that the judgement of the alpha is superior to their own. They allow the alphas to define reality for them, and thus opt out of taking personal responsibility for their participation in the packs activities.
Deltas are the nerds of pack society, the pack outcaste. They tend to orbit the pack from a distance, and while hunting, cut off the preys escape route.
Deltas are the nerds and outcaste persons of pack society, and with humans this gets complicated because some Deltas are in near orbits around the pack, and some deltas are in far orbits around the herd. Some deltas in human packs provide direct support to the betas and alphas, while other deltaas face off against packs in general, even while trying to fight for their own place in the social structure or society.
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Re: Pack psychology
Mon, October 2, 2006 - 5:28 PM"Then there are ROGUES who want nothing to do with the damn pack. Guess which click I'm from..."
"technically spawn, that makes you a far orbit delta. You are in good company, i am there also. My bet is you can play a good alpha or beta if you want 2."
O.k., Prometheus, if you wanna get technical!!! LOL!!! If Spawn is a Rogue, and you qualify in his company...............doesn't that make you to the begining of a pack. Wherein you add the rest of us members here who you talk to and thus...............pack status achieved!!!!
Amethyst -
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Re: Pack psychology
Mon, October 2, 2006 - 5:39 PMin some senses, thats an automatic function of groups, however, it is possible to be a society of deltas, or rogues.
The question is wether i rule by domination, or by leadership.
Or, whether i really bother to "rule" at all.
I'd prefer to have a society of deltas;
And this is something it may take a bit of getting used to...
I won't dominate people if i can help it... for the main thing, its not in my nature...
if we need a pack alpha, we could just take turns;
whoever wants the job could have it for a week and then turn it over to whomever we select
via whatver means we come up with...
or some such...
In any case, it is possible for a leader to un-alpha-ize themselves, and to create a society of equalls more or less. Thats what i would like to see here, and being playful with the realization of it is a good thing 2, depending on how people go with that.
:)
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Re: Pack psychology
Mon, October 2, 2006 - 7:33 PMProm,
There was a note of sarcasm in my voice/typing!!! I understand the theory, and was trying to give you and Spawn a bit of a laugh.
Amethyst -
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Re: Pack psychology
Mon, October 2, 2006 - 7:34 PMThe rotating thing, I think might become more useful and put into place as we see more people coming in asking for mediation, etc. Not a bad thing at all. -
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Re: Pack psychology
Tue, October 3, 2006 - 12:11 PMright, the rotating thing; "leadeship" is slightly different than alpha dominance, and the best way to insure good leadership is to shift the balance or locus of power. Good dancers don't just have the guy leading and the girl following, they take turns following and leading each other.
By having such a shifting focus, different people get to try on the "big shoes" and learn what its like to try to lead, and have a chance to get the group to explore off in the directions that interest them.
So if you are interested, amethyst, i'd like to nominate you as leader for the whole of next week.
:) -
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Re: Pack psychology
Thu, October 5, 2006 - 3:11 PMLet mew think on it and let you know by Saturday..K??? -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: Pack psychology
Thu, October 5, 2006 - 3:34 PMk. if not, we can let monica have a shot...
it might do her a bit of good.
:) -
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Re: Pack psychology
Thu, October 5, 2006 - 7:58 PMCan I let her go ahead and then, can I have the week prior to Halloween? I'm off that we and have a bit more time in that time frame? -
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Re: Pack psychology
Fri, October 6, 2006 - 1:11 PMwell, i guess its up to me then, since shadows and heather and mike aren't very active.
makes plenty of sense amethyst to just skip to a week thats convenient for you.
:)
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Re: Pack psychology
Sat, October 7, 2006 - 11:18 PM"since shadows and heather and mike aren't very active."
Doing other things....spending time at home off the pewter, working, enjoying the last of the warmth for awhile and enjoying the online experience, rather than dealing with the troll clans out there.
:)
+SW-> -
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Re: Pack psychology
Mon, October 9, 2006 - 12:29 PMwell its kewl to know you are lurking...
:) -
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Re: Pack psychology
Tue, October 10, 2006 - 12:27 AMLurking, but I bore with being "alpha". -
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Re: Pack psychology
Tue, October 10, 2006 - 1:55 PMLurking, but I bore with being "alpha".
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don't we all?
The question is how to give the members license to take their own version of holodemocratic leadership.(and thus operating via the society of delta psyche model)
Everybody here has tons to offer each other; i wish everybody would start 3 new threads.
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Re: Pack psychology
Tue, October 10, 2006 - 2:02 PMLurking, but I bore with being "alpha".
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sometimes, even if we tire of it, the situation calls us to exert our strength against some other.
I'm a natural built pack delta; but i >can< be the dragon against the pack.
Its always an unfortunate way to relate, and it happens more often than i'd like it to because
when i run into trolls, i am operationally capable of high level combat with them; I'm an anti-
Troll. (and thus some might say a troll VS Trolls.)
I'm the perfect "lawyer" for an internet chat zone in that sense, because my mind is level, coldy rational, and expert in psychology, and able to make expert level assessments about others.
I'm mean lean argument machine like most people have nevered dreamed could be real.
But what a boring battle of evermore.
The question and the difficulty arise in how to hold together something creative rather than destructive; how to empower each other more than we knock each other down.
its the delta journey into the intellect and the deltas journey as a solving aspect of the collective genius that is important, the fight is sort of the rear end block tackle guard that allows that creative energy a space and time.
I'd rather be opening the door to humanities futures than closing doors on humanities demons; but some days thats the labor load, and until it all settles down somewhere and gets real, andyhthing truly creative becomes troll bait. Its a vicious circle;
in order to do something majestic; wonderful; cocreative; collaborative; explosive;
you have to have enough emotional safety in the equation for the participants to really share
what is in some ways the most intimiate part of ourselves; our imaginations.
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Re: Pack psychology
Tue, October 10, 2006 - 11:33 PMProm: "sometimes, even if we tire of it, the situation calls us to exert our strength against some other."
Not necessarily. Only by choice do I choose that role, except in the extreme case of where someone tried robbing the place I was working. Other than that...I owe no debts to anyone, need not lead and don't need to report to anyone if I so CHOOSE it that way.
As for "pack psychology"...I am not part of any pack, have never desired this and turned it down many a times when it was offered.
Packs are sheople with a leader.
+SW-> -
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Re: Pack psychology
Wed, October 11, 2006 - 12:56 PMProm: "sometimes, even if we tire of it, the situation calls us to exert our strength against some other."
Not necessarily. Only by choice do I choose that role, except in the extreme case of where someone tried robbing the place I was working. Other than that...I owe no debts to anyone, need not lead and don't need to report to anyone if I so CHOOSE it that way.
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i am often motivated by ethical or moral concerns.
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As for "pack psychology"...I am not part of any pack, have never desired this and turned it down many a times when it was offered.
Packs are sheople with a leader.
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Thats usually true, but not always. It is possible for more evolved people to form packs; this is usually contingent upon them being consciously aware that they are doing so, which sheeple usually are not.
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