Rethinking Conspiracy

topic posted Sun, April 19, 2009 - 10:08 PM by  Shawn
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www.examiner.com/x-4172-Sa...Conspiracy

The article looks at the way terms like “conspiracy theorist” and “conspiracy nut” are not only used incorrectly, but unfairly, as forms of emotional appeals to discredit opponents with whom they disagree for reasons of ideology rather than logic.

posted by:
Shawn
Sacramento
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  • Re: Rethinking Conspiracy

    Mon, April 20, 2009 - 11:55 AM
    Not all who believe in conspiracy theories are nuts, but some conspiracy theorists like David Icke can be eaisly dismissed. He pushes nonsense like reptilian aliens controling history and promotes a discredited book of lies called "portocols of the elders of zion.: Using the word "nuts" is descride Icke is being kind.


    www.skepdic.com/illuminati.html
    • Re: Rethinking Conspiracy

      Mon, April 20, 2009 - 7:02 PM
      Icke pushes the Protocols? Where? Besides the reptilian thing, which I dont think is totally impossible, I actually like Icke and think his books and videos are interesting. I tend to believe that the people he considers to be reptilian are just people that are supposedly decendants of "Royal" bloodlines. Which do in fact happen to be Jewish.

      And people love to write other people off as crazy for believing in conspiracy theory and other paranormal or occult things. To think they are better than others that don't see everything exactly like they do. Whatever. It sucks. But it's just a part of life. I do happen to believe that more people on this planet right NOW are more informed and knowledgeble than at any other time in history. And that this simple fact is one of the most exciting truths of today. Even if the world is still spinning out of control and most probably going to end horribly very soon.

      Happy thoughts. La la la. : )
      • Re: Rethinking Conspiracy

        Mon, April 20, 2009 - 7:07 PM
        Icke and the "Protocols" Article:

        www.publiceye.org/Icke/Icke...ounder.htm
        • Re: Rethinking Conspiracy

          Mon, April 20, 2009 - 7:21 PM
          I believe most of the stuff he writes and have never seen him as antisemetic. And I still dont after reading this article. He's speaking of a small handfull of Jewish "elite". I suppose that is still antisemetic. But is it true? If he was saying ALL jews were a part of the "conspiracy" then I would see it as truly antisemetic. If the elite happened to be Mexican he would be pointing the finger there. Where the money is. And then people would be calling him a racist. That's rediculous. People want to discredit him because of what he says. Because it's extreme. This is what a voice being silenced looks like. People distrust those who point to the invisible and shout to get our attention. Our world is marching calmly to an obscure and unknowable end because we, the people, hear the drum, feel the beat, know our place in line. There is too much personal responsibility in jumping out of line, and if you then try to jump back in, you will find you have lost your place and your fellow marchers no longer want you to join them. You are dirty; you are crazed; you have seen what they are afraid to see.
      • Re: Rethinking Conspiracy

        Mon, April 20, 2009 - 7:20 PM
        It's not a question of skeptic's thinking we are bettter than others. To me it is all about asking questions and not taking things, especially claims about the paranormal at face value. I try to apply critical thinking to politics too because the powers that be stay powerful by discouraging deep questions about their policies.

        I think the following by Carl Sagan written in 1994 sums it up pretty well:

        "I have a foreboding of an America in my children's or grandchildren's time -- when the United States is a service and information economy; when nearly all the key manufacturing industries have slipped away to other countries; when awesome technological powers are in the hands of a very few, and no one representing the public interest can even grasp the issues; when the people have lost the ability to set their own agendas or knowledgeably question those in authority; when, clutching our crystals and nervously consulting our horoscopes, our critical faculties in decline, unable to distinguish between what feels good and what's true, we slide, almost without noticing, back into superstition and darkness."
      • Re: Rethinking Conspiracy

        Mon, April 20, 2009 - 8:38 PM
        <Icke pushes the Protocols? Where? Besides the reptilian thing, which I dont think is totally impossible, I actually like Icke and think his books and videos are interesting. I tend to believe that the people he considers to be reptilian are just people that are supposedly decendants of "Royal" bloodlines. Which do in fact happen to be Jewish.>

        Icke, has never said that, those many jewish groups have tried to say he did, it's a case of me thinks thou dost protest too much.
        • Re: Rethinking Conspiracy

          Mon, April 20, 2009 - 8:46 PM
          The information comes fro Icke's own book.
          "In this book, Icke went even further. He began to flirt explicitly with Holocaust denial, saying "why do we play a part in suppressing alternative information to the official line of the Second World War? How is it right that while this fierce suppression goes on, free copies of the Spielberg film, Schindler's List, are given to schools to indoctrinate children with the unchallenged version of events. And why do we, who say we oppose tyranny and demand freedom of speech, allow people to go to prison and be vilified, and magazines to be closed down on the spot, for suggesting another version of history."3 He also denounced the Nuremberg Trials as "a farce" and "a calculated exercise in revenge and manipulation."4"

          No thinking person takes denial of the Holocaust seriously or believes the Jews are trying to control the world.
          • Re: Rethinking Conspiracy

            Mon, April 20, 2009 - 9:21 PM
            I dont think he was denying the holocaust. I think he's denying the "official history" of the war overall. As well as the Nuremburg Trials being a farce. I think they were too. A smokescreen to catch a few scapegoats when the big boys and other important people were wisked away in Odessa and Paperclip. Icke IS a thinking person and I dont think he denys the Holocaust. And I dont think he believes the Jews ( like ALL Jews ) are trying to control the world. He's quite specific in pointing the finger at the "ELITE." What do "thinking" people believe about the "Elite?" Do they or do they not exist? And if so, who are they?
            • Re: Rethinking Conspiracy

              Tue, April 21, 2009 - 6:38 AM
              Mr. M asks: "What do "thinking" people believe about the "Elite?" Do they or do they not exist? And if so, who are they?"

              I think there is an "Elite," and there are many ways to define who they are. My opinion is that the elite are the approx. 3% of the population who control most of the wealth in the U.S. Some call them the powers that be. Others call them the ruling class. Through their wealth they pretty much control the major media and influnce public opinion. I think we saw a clear example of that during the build up to the U.S. invasion or Iraq. With very few exceptions at that time the main stream media was a solid wall of pro war propaganda. Opposing voices were either ignored, marganilazed, or slandered. (see Bill Moyers show called "Buying the War) Recall that before the war began there were some of the largest political demonstrations in U.S. history despite the constant media pounding of the drums of war 24/7.

              I wish I knew what we could do to neutralize the power of the elite. I think part of the answer is to use tools like the internet to communicate with others and organize around specific issues. Recent history has shown us that people power is still very effective. Just three years ago millions of people marched, walked off their jobs and joined in huge rallies for immigrant rights. The rallies resulted in Congress taking a very repressive bill off the table and taking the inititave away from xenophobes like Lou Dobbs.

              I think most policy in the U.S. is influnced by the golden rule: Those who have the gold make the rules.
      • Re: Rethinking Conspiracy

        Mon, April 20, 2009 - 8:45 PM
        I believe some conspiracies are designed as misinformation to misdirect people from real conspiracies and discredit them. For instance, The whole 9/11 thing about the towers being rigged with explosives, this was a conspiracy fueled by the CIA to hide the truth that Bush, Cheney and Bin Laden conspired to pull a false flag inititive. While people made rediculous demolishion arguments. The obvious facts that the military was on stand down, that Bin laden is an old buddy of Bushes, and the fact that Iraq had nothing to do with it, got lost in the hub bub.

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