Vegetarian Dogs?

topic posted Tue, January 3, 2006 - 2:41 PM by  Bo
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Hi Everyone! Happy New Year :-)

I just saw a movie called Earthlings - it's a documentary narrated by Joaquin Phoenix - you can order it on the Peta site. It changed my life. It's about how we humans are earthlings along with the plant and animal life on earth, and how we mistreat these fellow earthlings - esp. animals.

So, I have been a vegetarian for a week now. After watching, I don't think I can ever support the meat or fishing industries (or leather, zoos, circuses, etc.) again. Please get a hold of this movie and watch it. It was horrific from the get go (first showing the reality behind pounds and shelters), but I made myself watch to honor my dogs.

Anyhoo, it made me think - what are my dogs eating? I'm figuring their lamb and rice kibble is anything but vegetarian. I want my dogs to eat well and have their nutrition, but I don't want to buy them food that supports the meat industry anymore - and no, "free range" won't do it.

Any suggestions for a healthy vegetarian dog diet? Is it possible? If so, do they have to take supplements? Which kinds?

Thanks!
posted by:
Bo
offline Bo
  • Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

    Tue, January 3, 2006 - 2:48 PM
    Um. You can go veg all you like. but I wouldn't bring your dog into it. I'm sorry, but dogs are omnivorous. If you didn't feed your dog (& were it never to have been domesticated) it would hunt animals for meat as well as eating it's share of greens. Dogs don't support the meat industry by choice, it's not their fault they're not allowed to feed themselves. Don't jeopardize your dogs health because of PETA. While their intentions are good, they can be a little crazy.

    This is all my opinion though. I mean, Hilter had an opinion too - that doesn't make it right.
    • Bo
      Bo
      offline 80

      Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

      Tue, January 3, 2006 - 3:04 PM
      The film was not made by Peta - their site is just one place to get it. I am not associated with Peta, nor do I plan to be. I'm almost sorry I mentioned you can get the film there. My post was not about Peta - it was about the effect the documentary had on me and questions that it generated for me about my dogs' diets...

      I'm asking these questions to see if there is a way I can get them all that they need nutritionally without jeopardizing their health and while still not supporting the meat industry. If not, well, then they'll stay on what they eat now. But, if so, I'd like to know.

      No - dogs don't support the meat industry by choice - but I do (or don't). It's my money. And I would like to do some research before continuing to buy them food made with meat.

      I appreciate your opinion, but how about not shutting me down before I get any answers to my questions? Esp. since I'm ultimately trying to help the animals in this world by doing my (small) part? Currently all I've done is ask a few questions - my dogs' heath have not been jeopardized in the slightest.
      • Bo
        Bo
        offline 80

        Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

        Tue, January 3, 2006 - 3:23 PM
        And I must amend - I don't mind if they eat meat - if there is meat out there made from animals that have been killed humanely. Perhaps there are companies that make dog food using animals raised and killed more humanely than the big kibble/dog food companies. And maybe the quality of that food is better than the ground up pig snoots and other "meat" our dogs eat.

        Shoot - maybe I'll eat it with my dogs if such a company exists...
        • Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

          Tue, January 3, 2006 - 6:26 PM
          Switching a dog to an unnatural diet isn't a good option. Follow Thistle's advice about the kosher meat and whole food diet. There is more than just protein that a dog gets from meat. Also plant protein is incomplete so much of it is unavailable to dogs for absorption. Just remember that there is a reason that dogs eat meat.
      • R.
        R.
        offline 3

        Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

        Tue, January 3, 2006 - 3:27 PM
        seems to me that i've seen vegetarian dog food in some specialty shops...
        the primary reason for the meat is protein so i'm guessing you could create a high quality diet using alternate sources of protein, just as we do for human diets without meat...
        might be a tad difficult to go vegan, unless your dogs develop a real liking for tofu...but vegie is probably very doable, might get costly......
        i'd check with some place like the cornell vet school or the u of pa. vet school..they probably have "contact us" links on their web sites...why not write and ask 'em?
        reg
        • Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

          Tue, January 3, 2006 - 6:19 PM
          If you are concerned about the kind of meat your dog eats, you should switch your dog to a whole food diet and feed kosher meats.

          Most meat in most commercial dog foods come from what the USDA grades as 4-D which means that the animal was either already dead upon arrival to the processing plant, is down, or unable to stand, is diseased and not suitable for human consumption, and sorry, but I can't remember the fourth "D", but it's all pretty bad.

          Meats that are certified as kosher are assured that the animal was treated well while alive, and that it's life was taken humanely and with respect.
  • Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

    Tue, January 3, 2006 - 7:27 PM
    Hey Bo,
    I switched our four dogs to a vegetarian diet about 5 years ago. Each one is incredibly healthy and happy. We feed our dogs Nature's Recipie Vegetarian dog food as a base. From there I do add eggs from my chicken and duck flock, and the occasional cheese treat. I also add nutritional yeast, various nut milks, veggies, dulse, and whatever else they want.

    You might want to get a copy of "Vegetarian Dogs" by Verona re-Bow and Jonathan Dune. It has great recipies along with nutritional info. The other book I use is "Dr Pitcairn's Complete Guide to Natural Health for Dogs and Cats".

    I switched them out after learning what was in most "dog" food. We also had to deal with cancer in two of our dogs that were on a meat diet most of their lives. Maybe there is a corelation there, maybe not, but my 15 year old is still going strong.

    PM me if you have any other questions.
    • Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

      Tue, January 3, 2006 - 8:01 PM
      I'd be very careful with Dr. Pitcairn. Some of his advice in that book is not very good and can sometimes be fatal. Make sure you thoroughly research his information from non biased sources before following his advice.

      Secondly, chances are that what has caused cancer in dogs is not the meat, but rather the preservatives that they put in commercial dog food.
      • Bo
        Bo
        offline 80

        Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

        Wed, January 4, 2006 - 6:57 PM
        Thanks, everyone - esp. you, Kathi. I may just take you up on that PM-ing.

        Re kosher - kosher food is not necessarily "kosher." The documentary went inside kosher slaughterhouses and showed numerous violations that not only make the meat not "kosher" for Jewish purposes, but also that treat the animals with as much cruelty as regular slaughter houses. I couldn't believe what I was seeing...

        I won't go vegan - just vegetarian with organic eggs and cheese and milk. I'm trying to be (kind of) gradual about it...
        • O2
          O2
          offline 66

          Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

          Wed, January 4, 2006 - 8:39 PM
          Bo,

          You could take up hunting, I hear there are lots of squirrels in Central Park....




          (kidding)
          • Bo
            Bo
            offline 80

            Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

            Wed, January 4, 2006 - 8:42 PM
            There are a lot of squirrels in Central Park - too bad I don't live in NYC anymore. But, I guess I could hunt pigeons - they seem to be everywhere. I'll leave the squirrel hunting to my dogs in the backyard...ok, and the pigeon hunting too...

            (no offense taken) :-)
        • Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

          Thu, January 5, 2006 - 1:57 PM
          no offense, but this documentary seems very biased. did they at all look at kosher slaughter houses that were humane or did they just look at the few that aren't? Did they at all look at other alternatives? I'm not saying there isn't horrible things that happen to animals in slaughterhouses, but I have problems with something that is so one sided that they refuse to look at those that are humane.
          • Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

            Fri, January 6, 2006 - 3:18 AM
            I thought the whole point of free-range was humane... that they weren't kept in 3x6 crates with no room to move or lie down, forced to live in their own shit, fed the remains of those fallen around them & injected with hormones until the inevitable day of their slaughter when the impact of the concussion gun may or may not kill them outright???

            I've never heard of a kosher slaughter house. I must investigate this further.
          • Bo
            Bo
            offline 80

            Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

            Fri, January 6, 2006 - 8:46 PM
            Well, before I answer tons of questions about this documentary, why don't you go check it out for youselves?

            It is very biased. It shows the worst of the worst. It is *real* footage of the worst of the worst tho, which I found most disturbing. Problem is most of the time you don't know where the meat is coming from. Maybe it's from a more humane slaughterhouse and maybe it isn't. I don't care to chance it. That's just me.

            Kosher is about how they slaughter the animal - and about the blessings on the food and how it is prepared - there is kosher food that is not meat. And of course there are "kosher" slaughterhouses - where would orthodox Jewish people get their meat otherwise?

            Free range as it was explained to me (by my friend who showed me the movie) just means these animals have *more* range than on non-free range farms. But, it isn't necessarily what I used to think of it as - animals running around on a sprawling farm. The documentary does not address free range farms - like I said - it is biased and shows the worst of the worst.

            Anyhoo, I'm not going to change their diets - in fact, my husband fed them some chicken today (he's not a vegetarian and they're his dogs, too). But, I'm still open to doing more research. Everyone's responses are so varied...
            • Bo
              Bo
              offline 80

              Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

              Fri, January 6, 2006 - 8:50 PM
              Oh and I'm not going to get different dogs either - not after 6 years of being totally in love with my pups. I hope that suggestion was not mean-spirited (can't tell via e-mail sometimes). Just trying to get some info, here...
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

    Thu, January 5, 2006 - 11:02 AM
    You could always get a different dog -- I have read that the Hairless Mexican dog, Xoloitzquintle, is naturally vegetarian!
    • O2
      O2
      offline 66

      Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

      Thu, January 5, 2006 - 12:11 PM
      I wouldn't get a dog just so I could say I have a vegan dog.....

      But then I'm not Paris Hilton....
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

        Fri, January 6, 2006 - 7:04 AM
        Show me a dog that's not drooling when you swing a nicely rare steak in front of its nose and I show you a vegetarian dog.
        Jess and Xoch say: A salute to bacon, or bread in bacon grease :-)
        • Unsu...
           

          Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

          Fri, January 6, 2006 - 10:58 AM
          Please! Learn the natural history of your pets before changing there diets. Dogs have evolved to be omnivores and an important part of their diet is from animal protein. This problems goes both ways, too, I know of people who have iguanas, and think they must be meat eaters, and feed them meat which damages them, usually kills them, because they are herbivores!
          And please, please, please, don't get a cat and feed it a vegitarian diet.... they are strictly carnivores.
          I am an animal care professional, I do know my stuff, I hope you take my comments and seriously consider them.
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

    Mon, January 9, 2006 - 6:52 AM
    I like peta about 80% of the time. They go too far sometimes I think. Animals eat animals, I think it's crazy for humans to try to change that.

    I try to buy all natural or organic food for them (like Wellness)becuase that supports good farming practices, is better for them and keeps my vet bills down. They *will* eat other stuff but meat is the MAIN part of what they need.

    Isn't there some faction of the animals rights movement that is against pet "ownership" as well? are you going to free your pets if someone make a persuasive video on the evils of domestication?
    • Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

      Mon, January 9, 2006 - 8:59 AM
      I agree with you about PETA, Laurabora.

      As for vegetarian dogs, I have seen happy healthy dogs that are veggie (but still eat eggs and dairy). However, their owners did a lot of research, worked with their vet(s) and prepared/cooked them fresh homemade food daily. I think it takes a lot of time and experimentation, but if you feel strongly enough about it, you can make it work.

      As a middle ground, you could try out some of the organic dog foods and at least feel good about supporting more humane practices. That would give you a chance to research other possibilities. Good luck!
    • Bo
      Bo
      offline 80

      Re: Vegetarian Dogs?

      Sun, January 15, 2006 - 12:00 AM
      "are you going to free your pets if someone make a persuasive video on the evils of domestication?"

      Yes, of course, I would. Do you have one that you would suggest? I am easily influenced and weak and you are strong and right and a much better, much more superior person than I am. I am much smaller than you and have no brain (I had a heck of a time getting that law degree) so I do everything that videos tell me to do. Now, does that make you feel good?

      In all honesty - sarcasm and utter frustration aside - I would likely not "free" my amazing, incredible, loves-of-my-life, dogs. But I would research it and ask questions about it if I found it compelling. And I would hope that people would not make snide remarks if I just decided to ask a few questions and learn something so that I could make a healthy, educated decision...

      Did people make negative remarks to you when you decided to feed your dogs organic food? Were you treated or spoken to in a condescending manner when you were asking questions and doing research about that? Did you enjoy it when people were not supportive of you? Do you care to ask me any more rude questions that possibly imply weak or negative things about me/my character?

      I am new to this vegetarian stuff. I am asking questions and doing research - as I have said several times at this point. I have not changed my dogs' diets yet. And as much as you may care to think that I haven't - that I am some silly girl who believes everything she sees and then acts on impulse - I *have* read all of the responses and am taking them very seriously and am researching other sources as well. They make good sense. Excuse me for not knowing all of these things already and having to ask...

      So, please, stop trying to imply that I am making a rash, impulsive, unsafe decision based on nothing. It's fine to disagree (with what, I'm not sure, since I haven't done anything yet), but the tone - condescending and judgmental - is disappointing and unwarranted. It diminishes the good suggestions that people give (including yours) as well as my experience on this tribe.

      I usually find people on this tribe generally to be supportive and positive. And really, I think we share the same philosophy, so your negative remark is especially strange to me...

      I will officially stop repeating myself at this point. If you don't get by now that I'm asking for help from people who know more than I do so that I can make a good decision, and that my heart's in the right place, then you just don't want to get it. If you feel better making me wrong or trying to make me look stupid, go for it.

      And I think I will ask the vet about organic dog food. That does sound like an interesting suggestion and a good compromise. Thanks to those that suggested it.

      Having said that, I'm going to research some of the other dog tribes and see if their tone is a bit more positive. Ooh, and if they tell me to go jump off a bridge, maybe I'll go do that, too, especially if there's a video on it. Feh.

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