tv.yahoo.com/contributor...dc__ER:60410

I thought everyone might find this interesting too. :)
posted by:
Brenda
  • We were sent home early from my sociology class to watch this on Oprah, and I have a 2 page reflection paper due about it. I agree with the fact about how "Tracy" has now become "Thomas" in gender role exchange. It is the fact that when based on the biological facts, that he is still a female, that this is not a surprising development...it is in reality a female who is having a baby who took enough testosterone therapy to take on the look of a male. The only surgery that he/she has undertaken was to remove the breast tissue and glands.
    In this thread I take who Thomas/Tracy is as a good thing as they recognize both the female and male aspects of self. To claim that it is a man who is pregnant when looking at the body scientifically (and I hope this is not too graphic for this tribe, but the testosterone caused the clitoris to grow, ((size unknown)), but not to change it's genetic make up which would entail the fact that they would now have testicles not ovaries) is not true.
    I know that I might be opening up a giant can of worms here from what I have said, but I am looking at thiongs from all aspects, as a sociologist, a scientist, and a spiritual being.

    Amethyst
    • Well, its not only what he has done to appear male physically, through hormone therapy, masectomy and so forth. He has also, more importantly perhaps, changed his identity legally and socially to that of being a man. And yet, now, legally and socially a man, he is about to have a baby.

      What is interesting -- though not surprising -- is how a lot of folks can't deal with that fact, including a number of physicians who refused to treat his pregnancy. If those physicians just saw a woman with a beard and reduced breasts, where would be the problem? Some women have facial hair, and small breasts. But, what tripped them up is that he has opted to live in society as a man and yet, as he put it, chose to retain his "reproductive rights."

      It really crosses some taboos, most if not all of which are social or cultural. (Obviously there are no biological taboos... indeed, reportedly his pregnancy is proceeding normally.) And it raises questions, uncomfortable still to many, about exactly what, beyond the biological givens, constitutes being a man, a woman, and even what other possible permutations there may be.
      • This pregnancy may not push the biological aspects of the issue, but it will definitely pull the gender identity issues. Will the birth parent be considered the mother or father on the birth certificate? What if there is a divorce and subsequent custody battle (I am not wishing this on anyone), who would be considered the legal mother? It will be interesting to see how this develops.
        • I find the whole thing silly in a way since this was a woman to start with. They could have hung a Santa Claus beard on him/her and it would have worked the same from the stict biological viewpoint.

          The archetypial aspect of it though is very interesting. Men gave birth to women through their heads in ancient mythology.

          There was research indicating that men could be implanted with feotuses and that these could be delivered to term. This dates many years ago.
          • Of course biologically speaking it is a non event. Its not about a male carrying a child and giving birth. He is doing just as other females have done for aeons. ;) The issues, such as they are, are all social and cultural.

            The point more has to do with that being a man or a woman is not just a matter of being biologically male or female; it also has to do with social and cultural roles. Being a man or a woman is more than just being male or female. There are a whole lot of cultural and social meanings that get attached to biology. The conventional assumption of course is that the biological and social are aligned: being female aligns with the psychological, cultural and social identity of being a woman, and being male aligns with the identity of being a man. Yet for some folks, transgendered folks specifically, there are different alignments. One may be male biologically, for example, yet identify and seek to live socially as a woman.

            Biologically, males are not able to give birth. Men, in so far as it is generally assumed that they are necessarily male, there by do not give birth. Hence it becomes not just a matter of biological fact, but also a matter of meaning and identity arising out of that fact. But transsexuals seem to undermine such assumptions. Since a female-to-male transsexual wants to in all repsects to be a man (socially, culturally, legally, etc, despite their biology), it is then expected he would not want to have anything to do with that birthing thing... after all, that's something women do, right? It'd undermine his identity as a man. But now here is a transsexual man who wants to bear a child, can do so since he retained his female reproductive capabilities, and doesn't think it alters his sense of himself being a man. And that flies right in the face of a fair number of folks expectations. Hence, all the brou-ha-ha.

            Which in the end I also think is rather silly as well (not his desire to have a child but the hoopla over it). But there you have it.
            • Fascinating, Yeshes Deviji. Your analysis rings true to me. This guy's famous and controversial because he's breaking down our stereotypes of what it means to be transsexual - what a concept! It evokes absurd images of a bunch of old, hardcore conservative transsexuals all up in arms over it.

              Yet, as others have said, from a biological point of view it's completely natural (except that his partner used a syringe to impregnate him); his uterus doesn't seem to care what the rest of his body looks like.

              It will be interesting to talk to the resulting baby when he/she/it grows up, for yet another unique perspective on the matter.
  • I think more than anything he paves the way to all people having full authority over their identity and body!!

    And paves the way to having full social rights along with that authority.

    He also triumphs to those oppressed that they do have choices and hopefully will kindle fires of various forms of freedom for others.

    Those were just my thoughts. :)
  • I think transsexuals know a lot more about the reality of Gender than people who follow their roles to the tee. They know what it's like to be both in many instances, and are more balanced when it comes to Gender then normal gender role following folk who have not tapped into the other side of the gender spectrum that is the opposite of what they THINK they are. But don't ask me about transsexuals, I don't know ANYTHING about them... Hahahaha. Or maybe I do.

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